Tragic Football Stories - Let us Kick Around the misshapen Jabulani that is English football right here

David Cameroon to make England's streets as good as African streets, speech at 11am tomorrow.

You used to get a few hundred quid for playing for England, but I bet that's not the case now (these guys should be paying us, right?)

Interesting hotchpotch of an article, nakh - good points all round. I'm most impressed with Müller - can you imagine any England player being interested enough in another side to offer thoughts like that?

Germany? Oh yeah Schwein... that guy with a big name has a fit wag who is free to call me, yeah?

Thomas Muller's wife is lush.

this is kinda late but with 'all said and done' about this recently deceased team, i don't think there was much chance of them ever doing anything, whoever was managing them and whatever the tactics. the hilariously protracted gerrard+-lampard inanity is kinda central to this.

there's a core of athletic, intelligent and fairly skilful defenders; ferdinand, king (:x), a cole, g johnson (ish), previously campbell too. they're comparable in type to many of the top defenders elsewhere, though perhaps not as composed in possession. they're fairly good and could justify some of the popular hope invested in them.

and of course wayne rooney and previously owen, whose premature obsolesence apparently doesn't matter cuz rooney is better up front on his own. they're highly accomplished players.

all of which is dependent on having some kind of midfield. so.....lampard is rly intriguing here. basically i think he *is* a first rate player, tho i'm not sure how helpful it is to think of him as a cm, even if notionally he is.

post mourinho he usually plays towards the left in a 4-1-2-3, with a makelele/mikel covering him. there is malouda/robben (first rate lws) to stretch the flank and the incomparable drogba and essien, the former's hold-up play and latter's knack for recovering possesion high up the pitch allows for fairly simple and rapid attacks which drag apart the defence, with lampard arriving late to supply the final pass or more usually clear up the spoils. he's insanely good at this and is able to be a hugely successful 'cm' without having much of a short passing game, ie what it's all about.

then gerrard, superbly athletic, awesome striking technique and a good tackler, can be devastating as support striker with his instinctual sense for attacking space during rapid breaks - if that's in short supply he is limited by his suspect concentration and atrophied possession game. another first rate player but only in a very specific context where his indiscipline is compensated for or even encouraged. basically not a cm despite having qualified as such and possessing some of its skillset in abundance.

gerrard/lampard are franchise players, embodying a certain mythic english archetype (the box to box midfielder) but sensibly adapted for current trends by iberan negativists. they're each twinned with examples of another archetype of limited viability outside of local context, the catastrophically slow and clumsy yet inspirational/shouty defender.

the other english players are often franchise players from lesser lights in the pl, possessing one or two noteworthy qualities, usually from the numinous 'power, pace, passion' checklist of motd fame. to which is sometimes added 'ability' - to be able to pass, move and control with distinction. this drudgery is usually left to the guest workers.

Is there even anyone else who fulfills the gerrard/lampard box-to-box midfielder role in the premiership? Or anywhere else? I guess Kaka but it seems a dying breed.

iberan negativists

^ saw this and wondered what having a go at Portugal had to do with all this

they aren't rly box-to-box are they tho (xp)? they might make a few challenges in their own half but basically one is a support striker and the other a sort of deep-lying poacher. there's very little resemblance to the attacking mids employed by the top continental teams.

kaká may play like gerrard on fast counterattacks, but he's quite different (and superior) when having to attack an entrenched defence.

quality not having a play on me trying to figure out *that* kinda player. stephen ireland kinda like it too. maybe box-to-box not the best way to describe them but they are all v similar in terms of style

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/7825/beckssplash11076855a.jpg

Anyone else seen the Stevie G rumours?

Is this the whole 16yr old sister preggers thing? Hasn't that been doing the rounds for ages?

Now it's got a bit about EBJT pasted on the end.

tragic football story^

careless, imo, for a dude to get someone pregnant when he claims to be able to 'turn it on and off' when he needs to.

ps nakhchivan ur football thoughts have been conspicuous by absence in this the darkest of times imo

So a large portion of that seems to be unsubstantiated, and I could care less about the private lives of, well, anybody really. But somebody - Capello really - shd be deciding whether players are carrying around too much irl baggage to have their heads in the game. Hey, maybe somebody did.

Michael Owen on England: “Life has changed and kids cannot be getting the same practice as my generation. Yet look at the beaches in Brazil and the streets of Africa and you can see why so many players come from abroad.”

Or the beaches of the Netherlands and North Germany for that matter

I love the idea that a judge bases the legal framework of a case around his concern for the England manager's position.

tbf, there's a precedent. Chilcot Enquiry strongly rumoured to have been a whitewash so as to avoid upsetting Sven's prepartions for Euro 2004 qualifiers.

Great comments on Gerrard and Lampard btw.

Regarding the 'athletic, intelligent (hmmmm, Johnson? Rio?) and fairly skilful defenders', one of the real problems I can see is that there are none of these coming through. Three of England's current leading centre-halves - Terry, Ferdinand, King - are very comfortable on the ball, but I don't think any of the younger ones are in the slightest.

File lack of ball-playing centre half alongside lack of first-rate goalkeeper, deep-lying passing defensive midfielder and mobile poacher and I really think England are going to struggle to qualify for the next two tournaments.

Though should be said I've not seen enough of Smalling, who is probably useful.

Thomas Muller's wife is lush.

Seems a bit young to be married but, having seen his wife, better to snap her up before someone else does

If only Tom Huddlestone could run and turn he would be the answer to all our prayers :(

Or some of them at least.

Surprising number of that much-hyped England Under-17 side seem to come from Liverpool and Everton and they may get a chance in the coming years. A few from Man City, who obviously won't, and a handful from yer Southamptons and Boros and what have you who will probably end up picked up by Spurs or Arsenal or whoever in the future.

No one from Chelsea/Man United/Spurs/Arsenal at all.

Lancashire = home of English sport

(Arsenal had a striker on called Benik Afobe and the playmaker who got them to the final was injured in the semis, an Arsenal lad called Chuks Aneke, although he may still choose Ghana iirc as his international team.)

An England player called Chuks would be a boon to tabloid sub-editors everywhere, which reminds me

there's a lot of misconception around the success of junior sides. as that lengthy nytimes ajax piece explains, it's far better to have 2 potentially great players in a crappy u-17 team than 6 or 7 who'll eke out careers in the championship.

Regarding the 'athletic, intelligent (hmmmm, Johnson? Rio?) and fairly skilful defenders', one of the real problems I can see is that there are none of these coming through. Three of England's current leading centre-halves - Terry, Ferdinand, King - are very comfortable on the ball, but I don't think any of the younger ones are in the slightest.

naturally i did caveat glen johnson who is prone to catalepsy in defence. if rodwell is developed into a cb as moyes wishes then add another to that list.

File lack of ball-playing centre half alongside lack of first-rate goalkeeper, deep-lying passing defensive midfielder and mobile poacher and I really think England are going to struggle to qualify for the next two tournaments.

dunno about mobile poacher, bojan looks amazing but it's difficult to see where he fits into a 4-3-3, or even 4-2-3-1. so little 4-4-2 at the highest level. huddlestone shd be played in a 4-3-3 and if tottenham get a rly good forward he may get his wish next to modric and palacios.

I just assume most of these youth players will be the same as they've always been in the past: kids who are big and skillful for their age but end up vanishing as adults once their developmental advantage has gone bye-bye.

One of the Everton under-17s is apparently called Jasper Johns. Good target man, I hear.

^^^^otm.

Huddlestone next to a shield like Rodwell or Cattermole, with an inventive attacking midfielder in front of him (Wilshere?) would be terrific to watch imo.

One of the Everton under-17s is apparently called Jasper Johns. Good target man, I hear.

Wow

huddlestone shd be played in a 4-3-3 and if tottenham get a rly good forward he may get his wish next to modric and palacios.

451, iirc tbh, based around Pav

x-post

No one from Chelsea/Man United/Spurs/Arsenal at all.

Think this is wrong, Chelsea had two players in the team, McEachren and a 15-year-old called Chalobah, and William Keane def plays for United.

http://www.uefa.com/under17/matches/season=2010/round=15345/match=2002343/index.html

1 youth player per annum graduating to stay first team = fielding an entire team of homegrowns ranging from age 30-19.

I was basing that on Wikipedia, so it could well be wrong.

really, what huddlestone needs is a tough tackling yet mobile player behind him, and a player who makes the late runs into the box and can take a pot shot too to stretch the defence/midfield.

zokora, jenas are prob good bets.

Take it to the Tottenham thread dudes.

Or do a diagram, one or the other.

          ^
          |
<-   Cattermole  ->
      Huddlestone
     /     |     \
    /      |      \
   |       |       |

-> runs/screening/rough nasty sweaty work
- wonderful elegant killer balls

- Profit

ya profit sheesh

I think what i'm tryin to say there is that cattermole and huddlestone should comandeer a spider legged spaceship for maximum effect

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_aRIdDrwDIgs/SuFflCWmJGI/AAAAAAAADJk/N5BVE634MBM/s320/parliament_mothership_connection-1.jpg

Germany skipper Philipp Lahm has delivered a withering put-down to England by claiming his side "now have to beat a big team".

I don't even think the Germans are trying to zing at this point, just speaking truth.

Worse again, I think Beckenbauer is trying to fuckin help ye

Yeah, I thought Beckenbauer sounded more disappointed and concerned than anything.