Tragic Football Stories - Let us Kick Around the misshapen Jabulani that is English football right here

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sorry usually means you'll try not to let it happen again.

,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:36 (nine years ago) link

An idea that just occurred to me - absolute squad limits. Clubs pick their 23 men on day one and are stuck with them. You *can* buy youngsters to sit in the stands, but everyone would have to be honest about it. Any kids in the 23 would be guaranteed playing time. The other kids, if they had any useful mentality whatsoever, would go elsewhere. Also a handy way of (i) shifting talent down the pyramid a bit, and (ii) keeping budgets down a little.

Of course it'd have to apply to the premier league to achieve anything, and there's almost no incentive for the premier league to agree to it. Which seems to be the problem with English football in a nutshell.

Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:37 (nine years ago) link

xp Try telling that to Bernie Taupin...

ninjas and lasers and gold and (snoball), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:37 (nine years ago) link

Squad capped at 25 is not a new idea, i think, and yeah all for it.

,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:38 (nine years ago) link

Of course it'd have to apply to the premier league to achieve anything, and there's almost no incentive for the premier league to agree to it. Which seems to be the problem with English football in a nutshell.

Well quite. And expecting any new law to be followed in spirit rather than pushed to a meaningless breaking point is optimistic given the current climate. Now the question is, how far could the FA push the Premier League in theory, and why does it choose not to do so. DJ Shadow answers coming up after this break.

Mertesacker Emptiness (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:42 (nine years ago) link

Man utd and Chelsea would just break it with impunity anyway

,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:43 (nine years ago) link

am I right that teams have to submit their 25 man league squads next season? Except you can play all the players under X age (I forget) you want. Will this make any difference?

NYC Goatse.cx and Flowers (Merdeyeux), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:47 (nine years ago) link

how far could the FA push the Premier League in theory

Is the ångström still a unit of measurement?

I am utterly and abjectly pissed off with this little lot (Tom D.), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:47 (nine years ago) link

cunt-hair is workable

,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:48 (nine years ago) link

Prefer ba' hair

I am utterly and abjectly pissed off with this little lot (Tom D.), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:48 (nine years ago) link

am I right that teams have to submit their 25 man league squads next season? Except you can play all the players under X age (I forget) you want. Will this make any difference?

i think they're some stipulations about those under-25's, whether they're developed by the club, brought in, brought in from abroad, w/e. gets complicated.

,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:49 (nine years ago) link

This is like the Football League rules that I abuse on FM 2010 but having 4 crappy homegrown dudes on my subs bench every match, right?

Mertesacker Emptiness (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:01 (nine years ago) link

Yeah.

Was the thinking behind having 7 subs and not 5 iirc

,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:02 (nine years ago) link

I think the foreigners debate is worth having but not in the Blatter 6+5 or the 'I'm a racist Sun reader but' sense. I just don't understand what football teams get from buying the majority of foreign footballers. Was John Utaka really worth spending all that money on? Couldn't Portsmouth have spent 1/50th of his wages+bonus+transferfee+agentkickbacks to improve their academy and potentially get a decent striker or three come through every year? What do Mido and Benni McCarthy offer West Ham that Sears and Hines don't, other than limited ability to move away from a pie stand? Southampton were able to create at least 2 wingers of Champions League ability in the past 10 years, the type of players that earned them 10m each, so they use that money to buy Papa Waigo? Is there really no more Bales or Walcotts coming through with the same coaching staff and techniques, so you go for Papa fucking Waigo instead? Or does the giant Senegalise population of Southampton bring in extra needed revenue?

Basically my point is our academies and coaching may suck but really they cannot suck so much that John Utaka seems a valid option ahead of them, surely? Until all academies in the country get to the point where they notice that they can make a Champions League ability player (which Theo is and Bale will be next season) instead of closing your eyes on Football Manager and clicking at random until you find your next signing, English football can get tae fuck. We will continue to have the Gerrard-Lampard debate because there is no-one else of the top quality to make the fucking first eleven, let alone the squad, let alone Premiership teams.

samuel :D (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:09 (nine years ago) link

I just don't understand what football teams get from buying the majority of foreign footballers

very much my point from earlier on. Redknapp style payoffs from agents?

What do Mido and Benni McCarthy offer West Ham that Sears and Hines don't, other than limited ability to move away from a pie stand?

consider this english-football imaginary board excelsiored

,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:10 (nine years ago) link

lol tho theo walcott is not a champion's league quality player

,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:11 (nine years ago) link

As of next season-

Clubs have to declare an A squad of which 8 must be trained (3 years in the country before the age of 21, i.e. buying a player from abroad at 17 is fine but as Brazilian's can't travel till 18, Rafael or Denilson for example, do not count) within the UK and 4 of those must be trained by the club itself. They may also declare a B squad of any youngsters under 21.

samuel :D (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:11 (nine years ago) link

just don't understand what football teams get from buying the majority of foreign footballers

*splutter*

I am utterly and abjectly pissed off with this little lot (Tom D.), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:12 (nine years ago) link

All morning now I've been thinking "ten two-footed dudes who can pass short" is the way to go, really.

― Mertesacker Emptiness (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:09 (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

england don't have ten of these guys- by the time they get to full-international age they've all given up and gone breadman

― ,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:12 (29 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I should be posting this in the other thread, soz.

― Mertesacker Emptiness (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:12 (0 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

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Clearly England don't, I was positing it as some kind of development plan.

Mertesacker Emptiness (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:13 (nine years ago) link

I know you are trolling so I won't go into it but I was thinking of smaller clubs making money or having top class players (and as lol as me saying it is, anyone who plays for a top 3 side usually = top class) come through their academy. Whether that guy who has demolished teams such as Liverpool and Barcelona and Porto in the CL is of that quality or not then you decide whether to troll or not. :)

samuel :D (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:14 (nine years ago) link

teams such as Liverpool, you say?

Mertesacker Emptiness (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:16 (nine years ago) link

Tom top level players are different. I can obviously understand what Torres or Drogba add. Or as I said in the other thread, Wigan's ability to buy foreigners makes perfect sense. But what has Newcastle's proven track record of buying from outside the country added to their game, let alone the national side, other than complete and utter failure? Did *sorry Ronan* Rafa need to buy 97 players in his time at Liverpool?

samuel :D (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:17 (nine years ago) link

demolished liverpool in that loss that time?

walcott has played in the CL, and if that's the only stipulation then that's the mark i guess.

I'll choke the first time someone describes benoit assou-ekotto or jermaine jenas as CL 'quality' players. I sincerely hope you think about that

,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:17 (nine years ago) link

don't undertand the confusion about ahh's basic point- why do southampton need to buy a bad player from spain for ££££ as opposed to promoting a bad player from the reserves in that position?

,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:18 (nine years ago) link

why do liverpool? Spurs?

were all of our right backs worse than alan hutton?

9m worse?

don't for a second buy that.

,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:19 (nine years ago) link

Tom top level players are different. I can obviously understand what Torres or Drogba add. Or as I said in the other thread, Wigan's ability to buy foreigners makes perfect sense. But what has Newcastle's proven track record of buying from outside the country added to their game, let alone the national side, other than complete and utter failure?

*cough cough* Scottish football *tumbleweeds*

I am utterly and abjectly pissed off with this little lot (Tom D.), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:20 (nine years ago) link

'xactly! 9 poxy million put back into the academy compared to the fucking pittance any club currently spends on it would give you four thousand alan huttons!

samuel :D (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:21 (nine years ago) link

Yes, why are English clubs wasting millions on players from a strange culture and who don't speak the language like Alan Hutton

I am utterly and abjectly pissed off with this little lot (Tom D.), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:23 (nine years ago) link

at least then we'd have more than one right back to take to the fucking competition let alone choose from.

samuel :D (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:23 (nine years ago) link

WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU WANT FOUR THOUSAND ALAN HUTTONS

,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:25 (nine years ago) link

'twas a joke my maine, calm it

samuel :D (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:29 (nine years ago) link

Tom okay why the hell did Scottish clubs do it?

Perceived wisdom is that foreign players are better value for money in terms of skill/asking price, but that's been evident bollocks for ages.

Maybe all the club scouts are foreigners?

Mertesacker Emptiness (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:29 (nine years ago) link

This is gonna turn out to be about agents and backhanders again, isn't it?

Mertesacker Emptiness (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:30 (nine years ago) link

that's what i said about 30 posts up

Perceived wisdom is that foreign players are better value for money in terms of skill/asking price, but that's been evident bollocks for ages.

even in the short term, that's still v debatable

,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:33 (nine years ago) link

Perceived wisdom is that foreign players are better value for money in terms of skill/asking price, but that's been evident bollocks for ages.

Not that evident I would suggest, in terms of price + wages. It gets to be a trend, it's the done thing.

I am utterly and abjectly pissed off with this little lot (Tom D.), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:34 (nine years ago) link

Top English clubs develop home grown talent up until the age of maybe 18, and then what's the thingummy rate? 95%?

What's the point of that? There's no way a player is the finished product at 18, not even at 21.

Shit, Aaron Lennon was fast but gash until last year, and he's been first team for four years or so.

,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:36 (nine years ago) link

It's chicken + egg tho. Decrease in quality in footballers coming thru the ranks, this is Scotland I'm talking about, was probably happening before the influx of foreign players and buying foreign players was seen as a short-term solution to that.

I am utterly and abjectly pissed off with this little lot (Tom D.), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:37 (nine years ago) link

D'you think that the loss of talent to English clubs played a part in that Tom?

,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:37 (nine years ago) link

Not that evident I would suggest, in terms of price + wages.

But that would only apply to homegrown kids being overpriced by lower league clubs selling on, it doesn't apply to talent that the club develops itself, surely? Unless some guys in charge of academies have been Arrying a lot off the top.

Mertesacker Emptiness (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:37 (nine years ago) link

D'you think that the loss of talent to English clubs played a part in that Tom?

Oh no, Scottish players have been playing in England since the formation of the English League, they won the league for those clubs!

I am utterly and abjectly pissed off with this little lot (Tom D.), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:39 (nine years ago) link

Ireland produces a lot more good footballers than Scotland, how are they doing it?

I am utterly and abjectly pissed off with this little lot (Tom D.), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:40 (nine years ago) link

Gaelic Football dropout wimps

,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:41 (nine years ago) link

^srsly^

,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:41 (nine years ago) link

Too crap to kick it over the crossbar?

Mertesacker Emptiness (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:42 (nine years ago) link

I'm right in thinking that's how it works, yeah?

Mertesacker Emptiness (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:42 (nine years ago) link

Too fucking soft, lad

,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:42 (nine years ago) link

But at least they're playing a sport?

I am utterly and abjectly pissed off with this little lot (Tom D.), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:42 (nine years ago) link

Where d'you think Quinny got his bad back?

Away with your disco pants ya pansy fuck ya

,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:42 (nine years ago) link

I dunno what the % of irish lads playing organised sport in their teens would be, but yeah I'd imagine that it's pretty high for all of Giles/Dunphy moaning on the subject.

,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 11:43 (nine years ago) link

Get Involved
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Josh: Got to give the English fans credit for drowning out the nastiness with a cracking rendition of God save the Queen.

wot's the tea mum? (not beef again) (DJ Mencap), Monday, 14 October 2019 19:22 (two days ago) link

drowning out nastiness with nastiness

I'm glad I didn't hear that given that this was the first time ever I've been happy to watch an England football absolutely mollicate another team.

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... football team ffs!!!!!

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