Tragic Football Stories - Let us Kick Around the misshapen Jabulani that is English football right here

Should go the whole hog and have John Terry as player-manager if England have no hope of anything ever for the next 10 years.

xp saying that, the english u20s are looking pretty good actually

guess they always do though

Capello will get massive abuse in the media and inevitably eventually the sack, and will likely largely get off the hook here. I reckon the media closer to the truth than we are - the guy created an unhappy camp, took a poor and unadventurous squad, and in any case you're not telling me that that team couldn't've been put out to perform better than that. But I'd still keep him because:

- the guy's track record is still outstanding, even with this massive blot on it
- you don't get a track record like that without learning from your mistakes - no way are England going to turn up at another tournament looking like that
- surely this debacle is at least partly the result of him acting against his instincts - let him have free reign, and if it means a lot of bruised egos well so be it, massaged egos haven't brought results either
- he's getting paid whatever - giving possibly the outstanding club manager of the last twenty years £10m not to work for you is indefensible right now
- realistically, what's the alternative?

- realistically, what's the alternative?

A Scottish manager

england u-20s have always looked good, yeah.

the last england u-15 side i caught ina full match was pretty amazing, AFAIR a certain A johnson was only one of maybe three Middlesborough players in the midfield.

Capello gets free rein from me for creating an unhappy camp, if the alternative is to create a happy camps of spoiled brats.

Bringing the 23 players he did, after picking what i thought was a very bright and encouraging 30 to begin with, yeah that's a black mark.

Selecting the 11-15 players he did from those 23 consistently regardless of performance- ey Fabio this ain't the league mate.

rationally speaking capello should probably stay but the taint of failure is often insurmountable past a point

harry redknapp is the only alternative worth considering - he would do it but the tax fiddling's most likely knocked it on the head

i think whether the fa are prepared to pay £12m to scapegoat capello is going to be a good litmus test of their appetite for real reform, which is why i expect him to get the sack. if they wanted him to stay they could have said so immediately - after two weeks of speculation, he'll be glad to get out i imagine.

I'd keep Capello + get rid of Lamps + Gerrard.

How is letting Capello have his way not going to create another unhappy camp, unless different players are involved? And as you say, Capello picked the squad. So either this was a knowing ploy to get rid of a lot of the old guard after failure, or he's not the judge of a player we might've thought he was, or there's a near-insurmountable pressure to pick guys who aren't good enough/fit enough/mentally right that will still be there whoever Capello is replaced with.

he's getting paid whatever - giving possibly the outstanding club manager of the last twenty years £10m not to work for you is indefensible right now

realest talk, but watch and learn

joe totally otm. Capello sacked, new boss, business as usual. Especially if the new boss is Arry as he would be the perfect expression of the FA as Business Ueber Alles.

redknapp should be able to settle with the revenue. pay them £40,000, call it a misunderstanding. it'll all be dug up again the moment england go through a bad patch but i could see a desperate fa turning a blind eye now.

"ey Fabio this ain't the league mate" pretty much sums up dude's failings, yeah

Arry is also a great exponent of 442. Sticking with Capello would be the 451 thing to do, IMO

^yes I went there

Redknapp would be a disastrous international manager, he thrives on being able to bring in players to solve problems and if those players are just not out there in the 'market' I'm not sure he'd be able to fix things. Also the FA were pretty nervous about Venables' dodgy dealings and I'm not sure they'd take that risk with Redknapp. Also I don't want him to leave Spurs.

Hodgson at least has some experience as an international manager. He'll do.

Far as I can see, only 3 English managers having any degree of success at the moment: 'Arry, Hodgson (off to the 'Pool) and, errrr, Steve McClaren. Go for the younger man I say.

classic material from alan shearer's column in the sun today. it begins: "NO ONE likes kicking a man when he is down..."

oh yeah? http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/85000/images/_86318_alan_shearer_and_neil_lennon_after_kicking_incident300%2830-04-98%29allsport.jpg

Remember when Kings used to lead their armies back in ye olde times? Get Prince William in there and make that sponger earn his salary from The FA.

DAER SPURB FANZ wud u take swop caleppo and renkdapp

i can't remember where i read the slow cooking/fast food domestic league vs internationals analogy but i'd trust arry & sandra to whip a quick buffet sooner than fabio or woy tbh

Redknapp, and I don't want it to happen for two main reasons, would be the ideal manager for this group, and I think that he's done well out of players he already had at Spurs as well as buying them in Matt.

Also, that would be ignoring that he could 'bring in' any number of players like Walcott, Huddlestone, Dawson, Rodwell, Wilshere, Zamora, whoever.

Bentley and Bent could suck it tho

Did Arry really say that about swapping a bentley for a honda on BBC after the Japan game btw?

Honda have quality cars, get into a Civic.

he did

it was a groaner but the shaggy-dog delivery was kinda impressive for a pundit imo

Remember when Kings used to lead their armies back in ye olde times? Get Prince William in there and make that sponger earn his salary from The FA.

― They'll be dancing in the streets of Košice tonight (King Boy Pato), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:17 (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Astride a horse = unwanted redux of Crouchch-on-as-sub high ball tactics

er, Crouch

DAER SPURB FANZ wud u take swop caleppo and renkdapp

― so you want Mark Ronson to cry into your ass (acoleuthic), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 10:17 (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yes; Calippo would not

Astride a horse

http://www.fortunecity.com/bally/avoca/277/kingbilly.jpg

would definitely have capello as the successor to arry. he'd cane bentley up and down bill nick way imo

World Cup 2010: Blatter sorry for disallowed goal

sorry usually means you'll try not to let it happen again.

An idea that just occurred to me - absolute squad limits. Clubs pick their 23 men on day one and are stuck with them. You *can* buy youngsters to sit in the stands, but everyone would have to be honest about it. Any kids in the 23 would be guaranteed playing time. The other kids, if they had any useful mentality whatsoever, would go elsewhere. Also a handy way of (i) shifting talent down the pyramid a bit, and (ii) keeping budgets down a little.

Of course it'd have to apply to the premier league to achieve anything, and there's almost no incentive for the premier league to agree to it. Which seems to be the problem with English football in a nutshell.

xp Try telling that to Bernie Taupin...

Squad capped at 25 is not a new idea, i think, and yeah all for it.

Of course it'd have to apply to the premier league to achieve anything, and there's almost no incentive for the premier league to agree to it. Which seems to be the problem with English football in a nutshell.

Well quite. And expecting any new law to be followed in spirit rather than pushed to a meaningless breaking point is optimistic given the current climate. Now the question is, how far could the FA push the Premier League in theory, and why does it choose not to do so. DJ Shadow answers coming up after this break.

Man utd and Chelsea would just break it with impunity anyway

am I right that teams have to submit their 25 man league squads next season? Except you can play all the players under X age (I forget) you want. Will this make any difference?

how far could the FA push the Premier League in theory

Is the ångström still a unit of measurement?

cunt-hair is workable

Prefer ba' hair

am I right that teams have to submit their 25 man league squads next season? Except you can play all the players under X age (I forget) you want. Will this make any difference?

i think they're some stipulations about those under-25's, whether they're developed by the club, brought in, brought in from abroad, w/e. gets complicated.

This is like the Football League rules that I abuse on FM 2010 but having 4 crappy homegrown dudes on my subs bench every match, right?

Yeah.

Was the thinking behind having 7 subs and not 5 iirc

I think the foreigners debate is worth having but not in the Blatter 6+5 or the 'I'm a racist Sun reader but' sense. I just don't understand what football teams get from buying the majority of foreign footballers. Was John Utaka really worth spending all that money on? Couldn't Portsmouth have spent 1/50th of his wages+bonus+transferfee+agentkickbacks to improve their academy and potentially get a decent striker or three come through every year? What do Mido and Benni McCarthy offer West Ham that Sears and Hines don't, other than limited ability to move away from a pie stand? Southampton were able to create at least 2 wingers of Champions League ability in the past 10 years, the type of players that earned them 10m each, so they use that money to buy Papa Waigo? Is there really no more Bales or Walcotts coming through with the same coaching staff and techniques, so you go for Papa fucking Waigo instead? Or does the giant Senegalise population of Southampton bring in extra needed revenue?

Basically my point is our academies and coaching may suck but really they cannot suck so much that John Utaka seems a valid option ahead of them, surely? Until all academies in the country get to the point where they notice that they can make a Champions League ability player (which Theo is and Bale will be next season) instead of closing your eyes on Football Manager and clicking at random until you find your next signing, English football can get tae fuck. We will continue to have the Gerrard-Lampard debate because there is no-one else of the top quality to make the fucking first eleven, let alone the squad, let alone Premiership teams.

I just don't understand what football teams get from buying the majority of foreign footballers

very much my point from earlier on. Redknapp style payoffs from agents?

What do Mido and Benni McCarthy offer West Ham that Sears and Hines don't, other than limited ability to move away from a pie stand?

consider this english-football imaginary board excelsiored

lol tho theo walcott is not a champion's league quality player

As of next season-

Clubs have to declare an A squad of which 8 must be trained (3 years in the country before the age of 21, i.e. buying a player from abroad at 17 is fine but as Brazilian's can't travel till 18, Rafael or Denilson for example, do not count) within the UK and 4 of those must be trained by the club itself. They may also declare a B squad of any youngsters under 21.

just don't understand what football teams get from buying the majority of foreign footballers

*splutter*

good news everybody

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/aug/01/time-to-retire-three-lions-anthem-after-euro-2022-win-says-david-baddiel

“I’m very happy to think the song would, in a way, be put to bed.” Fans, however, may feel differently the next time England loses, he said

had to spoil it, didn't he?

wish somebody loved me as unconditionally as Southgate loves Maguire

looking fwd to Maguire starting in the world cup on the back of a couple of league cup appearances for utd between now and then

Wow they actually showed that lad running on the pitch, lovely bit of nostalgia

harry maguire doing harry maguire things

... followed by Nick Pope doing Nick Pope things.

sancho, whats happened there

yeah at Dortmund I wouldn't have hesitated to day he was like only a fraction less impressive than bellingham. and yet he's been nothing at utd and bellingham is basically running madrid. then again I thought havertz was p special in bundesliga and he's p meh now. next player I'll probably end up wrong about if he comes to england - florian wirtz at leverkusen.

I don't watch enough (i.e. basically any) German football to evaluate the difference between the Dortmund Sancho and the current version but it does seem like the signs were always there to an extent. Seems to have had attitude/application problems at every club he's been at, stories about being late for training, turning up unfit to pre-season, etc. There have been some whispers of personal issues but can't shed much light on that either.

based solely on his time at Utd, he looks like a technically accomplished player who's physically incapable of coping with the pace and power of the league. Classy on the ball in a vague sort of way but doesn't have the acceleration to go past players, totally unable to hold the ball under pressure, and shit-scared of any kind of challenge.

There have been worse players for Utd (been a lot of them in the last few years strangely enough) but I honestly don't think there have been any as...pointless as him. Cannot think of single match over the past two seasons where he's looked good from start to finish. Can barely think of a 10-minute period in a match to be honest.

Best for him and the club that he's moved on as quickly as possible now

oh and back to england , how kalvin philips makes squad after squad is beyond me.

xp he definitely had the acceleration in bundesliga and the power. he was frightening.

I will have to bow to your knowledge on that

there's definitely something amiss with him anyway. The whole thing with him being sent to train in the Netherlands for three months on his own in the middle of last season was very weird

the pace/strength required to beat epl players 1v1 does- disappointingly- seem to be a thing and sancho is maybe a high profile victim of it

are there m/any successful 'dribblers' of note left in the league with ASM gone?

sterling shifts it ninety degrees quickly with the outstep, as does kulusevski, for instance, and (for want of a better example) antonio controls the ball adequately while lifting centre halves like sinks ahead of him. bernardo silva drily touches the ball just to where you dont get it, again and again.

foden? does foden dribble?

whither steve guppy lads, essentially

Tbh my knowledge aint worth much. Full disclosure the 3 players I've never been more sure about being absolute world beaters coming from the Bundesliga in recent years are haaland ( everyone knew before he even got to Germany so he doesn't really count) Bellingham ( everyone knew post world cup so probably doesn't count) and ...........naby keita!! never have I been more sure about a player ,based on his first season at Leipzig where he was basically Bellingham++. How wrong I was.

Salah can dribble. I mean he's no Ben arfa mind.

you could have told me havertz wouldnt have been a atar in any top ten epl team and id have called you a nonce and a liar and i might even have claimed u dint kno ball if i were having a very bad day

but then maybe berbatov himself wouldnt stand out in 2023 premier league?

it all started with malouda imo

salah yes ofc

no steve guppy all the same

G Nev was talking player comparisons the other week wrt declan rice. He mentioned michael essien who I hadn't thought about in years but my god what a player to have in your midfield.

speaking of, sandro retired at 34 today

shone brightly but not too long but he was transformative for us when a screening muncher was a real novelty for us

Mitoma and Martinelli to be added to Salah on that list. Arguably Son at Spurs too.

Berba would be a star at any time. His technique would still be better than 90% of the league.

i thought son would be offered but- possibly like mitoma, of whom ive not seen enough tbh- his control of the ball isnt actually very good unless its in the very specific subcategory of dribbling that bisects defensive positions at pace

and if i have to tap the capote/ben arfa sign i will

martinelli beats a man and i like him but idk have i seen him dribble beyond fellas more than ive seen him wait out their tackle/move and beat them with reaction

i have, it will be noted, a rather specific criteria i use personally for what counts as "dribbling"

All decent points but you said “successful” dribblers and all are “successful” at beating defenders through dribbling and will do so in every game. I don’t think there is any great aesthete

I accidentally posted mid sentence. I don’t think there is any world class Garrinchas in the league at the moment, but quite a few are still very young (Marti/Saka are 21, Mudryk is 21, Mitoma is 26 but seems like he is just blooming, Antony is 23 and Garnacho is 19 etc) and as they grow, we could get out of this lull of dribbling expertise

pls god

Isak has this in his, erm, locker but has been non-existent whenever I have seen Newcastle this season

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6gWAYu_RG0

no steve guppy all the same

He was at Celtic for two years, he was no Paddy McCourt.

not by the time he was at celtic, no

but mccourt is a good example of actual dribbling, beat you at walking pace kind of thing

Antony definitely has a bit of the Ryan Giggs about him :/

so does Paddy McCourt

Unfortunately yes.

Looks like Mainoo is about to be appointed England's saviour as well as Man Utd's

No pressure lad