Has Led Zeppelin Dated Poorly?

well i agree - and not least because a lot of these rock *bands* were also listening to and loving LZ

The question is did the music world need LZ to come up w/this, or would it have happened anyway? Who knows!

It's not so much that LZ came up with it, it's that they came up with it with Glyn and/or Andy Johns engineering. It had to be that combination of band and engineer(s).

My mate told me that Page insisted they have a different engineer for each album so people would know their sound was largely down to him. My mate is quite full of shit though, so it might not be true.

Out of NYCAlex's list of hypothetical longevity artists from our time and speaking from a US perspective, I don't see how anyone but Beyonce can be seriously considered as an artist/performer people will still remember 30 years from now; she has the most commercial success, the most critical success and the most media exposure of anyone listed there.

Music geeks are going to remember Beck but EVERYONE is going to remember Beyonce; she's been around for too long at too high of a profile to be forgotten, regardless of what you think of her music. She has basically been set up as the new Diana Ross at this point.

this band is unfuckwithable

plus beck already sounds dated! xp

I certainly don't think they have.

How many 2008 kids remember Diana Ross, just out of interest?

Dan, putting that much effort into debunking an offhand Alex in NYC diss is almost like trying to engage Geir in a debate.

My mate told me that Page insisted they have a different engineer for each album so people would know their sound was largely down to him.

LZ I - Glyn Johns
LZ II - Eddie Kramer, George Chkiantz, Chris Huston, Andy Johns
LZ III - Andy Johns, Terry Manning
LZ IV - Andy Johns
Houses - Andy Johns
Physical - Keith Harwood, Andy Johns, Eddie Kramer, Ron Nevison
Presence - Keith Harwood
In Through - Leif Mases

Beck hasn't even held up well to now so I don't see how he's going to hold up well in 30 years.

I need my old college radio buddy who liked the Yardbirds better to disagree with all of ya...

thats jeff beck not beck beck

i don't think they've dated that much, or to the extent that they have, it doesn't matter much since there has been plenty of 'new' rock music (the white stripes, for one) that shows the influence. these things are pretty cyclical; 15 years ago it would have been more apprpriate to consider LZ dated than now, I think

People will remember Beyonce and think: Holy Crap, what an insane amount of time, attention and money was abjectly wasted on an egomaniacal, undercooked, overblown 'talent.' She's a pretty face and little more beyond that.

'people'

Interesting, so not a single person here agrees with me.

Diana Ross not being remembered by the teenage boy music dorks that will grow up to be ILXors =/= Diana Ross not being remembered

NTI, I think you might just have a case of "I'm not 16 anymore"

teenage boy music dorks that will grow up to be ILXors

what? ILXors are grown-up?

Well, they're not teenagers anyway. Crut1s is at least 20 now, right?

Well, there's a lot of music I listened to as a teenager that hits me just as hard if not harder now. Some (say, ELP) doesn't. But maybe, say, in the case of Bonham, we just take that sound for granted now. I was just shocked at how little of it really knocked me the fuck OUT.

However, you really need to watch that Kashmir live vid I linked to at the top...

People will remember Beyonce and think: Holy Crap, what an insane amount of time, attention and money was abjectly wasted on an egomaniacal, undercooked, overblown 'talent.' She's a pretty face and little more beyond that.

Just like they do with Diana Ross, whose music still gets played at the drop of a hat.

You hating her doesn't mean people won't still be playing her music at wedding receptions, Alex.

True.

holy shit at the Bonham head-fake at 1:06

dan otm on this one

x-post

But has Killing Joke dated poorly and will they be remembered as well as Beyonce? x-post to Alex in NY

Ugh ppl we had reached a resolution here, do we need to do the poorly-reasoned baiting thing on every thread?

NTI-you just may be tired of them. Although I don't like LZ nearly as much as some similar bands from that era, I don't think they sound especially dated. I think LZII sounds dated, but the stuff they did after that sounds really fresh to these ears, especially III and PG.

Whether "people" remember KJ or not is ultimately immaterial. They never achieved the heights of popularity of either Zeppelin or Beyonce. Their own will remember them. That's all that matters.

it's kinda funny how when any other drummer plays kashmir or when the levee breaks, they play two bass drum notes on the downbeat to try to simulate his huge sound. even on that live clip it sounds like he has a delay on the kick (but he doesn't!).

xpost weren't Killing Joke, like, Nazis?

oh god

Ugh ppl we had reached a resolution here, do we need to do the poorly-reasoned baiting thing on every thread?

-- HI DERE, Thursday, February 28, 2008 5:35 PM (9 minutes ago) BookmarkLink hehe yes!

xpost weren't Killing Joke, like, Nazis?

You're a complete moron.

thanks!

No charge.

I like Killing Joke btw.

So is disliking blues-rock, bombastic vocals, and overlong solos just a 16 year-old punk rock kid thing from the late '70s, and not an acceptable approach to evaluating rock for folks of any age (as simplistic as it may seem---and yea, I know, there were punk covers of Lez Zep songs)?

Funny, I was listening to LZ's albums (first time in a while) all of last week and reached exactly the opposite conclusion ("Whoa! I'm sincerely amazed at how much I still love hearing this 20 years later!"). Now if you had said The Wall...

Matt, good point about the blues-rock stuff on the first few records -- ironically, the worst offender IMO ('Since I've Been Loving You') is still in the live set list. The one exception is 'Levee', which is so far out there by itself that it really doesn't count.

Disagree about 'Stairway' -- it's hard to evaluate objectively now because of the (over)exposure level but I still think it's right up there.

The satellite single-artist streams probably deserve a thread for themselves. I listen to a lot less XM than Sirius, but the XM Led has held up pretty well so far -- I think a lot of this is due to Plant's solo stuff, where he was making a conscious effort to not Zep it up too much. I will say that the Who channel (Sirius) never quit on me in three months, and that's even with all the recent live shows they were working in.

Without reading the thread:

no.

yep that was the consensus.

Beck hasn't even held up well to now so I don't see how he's going to hold up well in 30 years.
i don't see any reason to think it is a linear process. tastes change ins cycles and different ways. in 30 years he could be considered the greatest musician of all time, for all we know.

If anything, recorded Led Zeppelin to today's ears is surprisingly flat and two-dimensional.

Today, you'd be hard-pressed to even put that song AMONG the greatest songs in Zeppelin's catalog, much less the history of rock.

I can translate these as "... to MY ears..." and "... I'D be hard-pressed ...", right?

And if a sound has become so normalized that we take it for granted, wouldn't that make it less dated?

I really disagree about "How Many More Times?", esp considering how much truly workmanlike blues-rock there was from that era. It's quite distinctive in its structure and sounds.

Sorry, Thomas -- didn't mean to bludgeon you as a moron, but to brand someone as a Nazi is a pretty serious charge. Killing Joke are very assuredly not Nazis.

http://www.anirrationaldomain.net/images/memo/memo34.JPG

(That said, I think they became more interesting when they started doing fewer blues semi-covers.)

xpost

I agree with Dan about Beyoncé, mainly because she can sing better than anyone else on that list. I think good singing and good pipes tend to last longer, as various fashions and modes of "bad" singing lose the context that once made them urgent+key.

Incidentally, Plant's horrendous live singing voice is why I can't really deal with LZ bootlegs, no matter how great the rest of the sound is.

Beyoncé's got a longer list of catchy songs than anybody else mentioned on this thread, too!

In general, though, I don't think LZ's dated poorly at all. Moving forward, they probably just need to boost the bass a bit more in the inevitable next remastering project and they'll be good to go for another 20 years or so. Like Star Wars or something.

I can translate these as "... to MY ears..." and "... I'D be hard-pressed ...", right?

('Cause, like "Stairway" was voted #2 song of all-time in the local classic rock station's poll last year. Which suggests that not everyone today finds them flat and 2-dimensional.)

xpost Tracer, you don't think there's ENOUGH bass?

Beyoncé, mainly because she can sing better than anyone else on that list.

I'll give ya this: Robert Plant stopped being able to truly sing about two decades ago, but do you REALLY believe that Beyonce's voice is that great?? Come on, now.

xpost Alex: I know, I was being facetious in reference to both "poorly-reasoned baiting" upthread & the controversy over that there pic of yours ... no harm intended. god I'm crap at trolling :D

(ps I actually quite like Killing Joke)

What fresh, hot garbagey Hell is this?

Guess I should have posted on the footwork thread

Oh god, why?!

Let's remix Led Zeppelin but squash the drums -- the best part -- and replace them with extremely shitty digi-hats and handclaps!

Ok

(LZ drums are all-time but still don't stand up to an 808 on a soundsystem)

This is definitely Not For Me™️

sorry Jord, swing and a miss lol

omg

I find myself appreciating Led Zeppelin more than I ever did other than the time in my life when I was just being exposed to loud, guitar-based music and they served as one of several gateway drugs. And with this newfound appreciation, I find the band's music to be both a perfect encapsulation of a long-gone era, but also somewhat timeless.

See AC/DC for an even better example of what I speak of.

(LZ drums are all-time but still don't stand up to an 808 on a soundsystem)

mix isn’t great but I’d rather hear it than any of their classics

You do you!

it gets much worse

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO8m6yilFSI

I'm a drummer, I looove JB, but the 808 clap has made more people dance than his snare drum sound.

(also if the kick is also meant to be the source of bass in the track, it's usually layered with other samples)

Too lazy to ctrl + f for Page/Mattix jokes but I’m sure ILXors of Time Past got that covered.

People will remember Beyonce and think: Holy Crap, what an insane amount of time, attention and money was abjectly wasted on an egomaniacal, undercooked, overblown 'talent.' She's a pretty face and little more beyond that.

^ better joke than the "Whole Lotta Love" remix
xp

(Sorry Jordan!)

I’m not even a huge beyonce fan but comparing her to zeppelin is almost unfair on zeppelin

TS: ‘Single Ladies (Put a Ring on It)’ vs songs about the One Ring.

Ring Cycle obv

otm

(LZ drums are all-time but still don't stand up to an 808 on a soundsystem)

In 2005, I had a chance to see Destiny's Child and I passed it up because of 'school'. I don't know why I air quoted school, I actually had a test. I thought I could catch them on the next tour, but I think you know what happened.

You can still see Beyonce.

All I would see are the two that aren't there.

Jordan's convinced me. All drum tracks should be retroactively swapped out with 808s. Cause dancing, sound systems, etc.

*Throws challops flag*

this is the purest calstars bait (that doesn't involve bars) <3

It does kind of involve children where they shouldn’t be though

this isn't even a well-used or well-mixed 808! It sounds like shit!

^^^
Is this guy intentionally defecating on all sides of the beat?

Like I could see elements (mellotron, etc.) of No Quarter being used in a bobbins way, but this dude (gotta be a dude) wants shooting.

I love footwork but Traxman has always bamboozled me and err... yeah not a fan of this

Ok I'm not going to die on this hill, it's just a silly EP of chopped Led Zep samples in a juke context.

Buuut speaking of context...if the 'When the Levee Breaks' break sounded good in fast dance music, it would be used in fast dance music. JB's drums are huge, wide, and aggressive and so they're usually sampled at slower tempos when you want that rock energy (Beastie Boys, Bjork, blah blah blah). There's a reason why he's not sampled much in drum & bass (although sure, anything's possible).

And 808 bass/kicks/claps are not objectively worse than even the best drummer when it comes to recorded music, they're just different. There's also a reason why you hear them 1000000000x more than Led Zep drum loops, and it has to do with how effective they are, which partly has due with the sheer frequencies involved, and the cultural weight at this point. I really should not have to explain this in 2020.

Dunno, who did Led Zeppelin go out with?