TS: Paul McCartney's "Pipes of Peace" vs "Press to Play"

http://www.songlyricscollection.com/lyrics/p/paul-mccartney/pipes-of-peace/pipes-of-peace.jpg

Tug Of War is only one album before Pipes Of Peace, no?

Yeah, but ToW isn't as notoriously mediocre as these other two albums. It wasn't released in the mid-eighties. And I'm pretty sure that it sold more copies than PoP or PtP.

For me, Pipes and Press are comparable while Tug simply blows both of 'em out of the water.

And if we're including Flowers In the Dirt (so I skipped a few albums and years, sue me)...well, thats in yet another league. Any album with That Day Is Done on it has to be a classic.

-- Guilty Boksen (jeffm.coo...), September 20th, 2005.

The three singles released from Flowers in the Dirt are all fantastic: "This One," the McCartney ballad die-hards have wanted from him since "Maybe I'm Amazed"; "Figure of Eight"; and the great "My Brave Face."

I haven't heard Press To Play in about 18 years. I'm not sure what a revisit would do. I'm not a big fan of PM post-Tug Of War.

After all, two major hit singles were pulled from it. Plus he was at a career stage where more or less everything he touched turned into gold commercially. I mean, "Tug Of War" was a huge seller in 1982, and he followed the "Pipes Of Peace" with two big hit singles in late 1984 as well (one of which, "No More Lonely Nights", is among his better solo moments while the other one "We All Stand Together" must be the definite nadir of his solo output).

"Flaming Pie", and "Young Boy" in particular, was way bigger Stateside btw.

Interestingly, George Harrison didn't continue on after his two most new wave albums: Somewhere in England and Gone Troppo ("Blood from a Clone," "All Those Years Ago," "Wake up, My Love," "I Really Love You," and "Wrack My Brain" from Ringo's album). I see Cloud Nine as being more bland than these two albums in the same way that I see post-new wave McCartney as being more bland.

AFAICT the real evolution in McCartney over the course of the 80s is the decline and fall of electric guitar from his arsenal; when it appears it tends to be as an overproduced lead, and to a forced rock effect, with "Move Over Busker" being only the most obnoxious example. (See also "Looking For Changes.") He's sounded a lot more natural, if less avant-garde, on his last few outings - acoustic, classicist pop with folky flavorings. Now I'm just off on a complete tangent, and that still leaves Run Devil Run to be accounted for, but it's time I got back to the kitchen...

What happened? Is it silly to wonder whether Lennon's death somehow took it out of him?

If you want to discuss McCartney's slump in the 80s, by all means do, but leave his singles out of it - there were assuredly some duds, but probably not any more than there were in the 70s...

"Pretty Little Head", "We All Stand Together" and "Temporary Secretary" must be the three worst McCartney singles ever.

Press to Play released 25 years ago this week!

It's definitely one of my favorites of his, maybe my favorite as a kid. Pipes is alright enough, certainly not a nadir, esp compared to the shittiness of Off the Ground or the boringness of his career in the 00s.

Is the hatred for "We All Stand Together" a britishes thing? I understand it would be annoying if I actually heard it frequently, but I used to love that Rupert short and I've always thought it was a great kids song.

"Press To Play" is still weird. But then, it still has "Only Love Remains", which is one of his best ever ballads, even including the Beatles ones.

While "Pipes Of Peace" is still kinda ZZZzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZzZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzZZ

Personally, I don't think any of these albums are great - "Press To Play" is pretty much unmemorable for the most part, and I've never liked the production. I never really feel like listening to it, although it's a more interesting record than "Pipes Of Peace", for better or for worse. "Pipes Of Peace", on the other hand, has two salvageable tracks on it for me - the title track and 'So Bad', which I quite like. So, to answer the question, "Pipes Of Peace". Although, I feel that these two albums, alongside "Wings At The Speed Of Sound" and "Wild Life", represent the worst end of McCartney's solo career. "Off The Ground" gets a bad rap, but I prefer everything that McCartney did from "Flowers In The Dirt" onwards compared to a lot of stuff he did in the '70s, even.

I posted this on the Thriller thread. I grew up with Frog Chorus (had it on video and we'd watch it over and over as children). It came with two quite interesting b-films:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRg8wxZym6k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prH0Y4ex_m0

The first one was credited to Suzy & the Red Stripes. The latter completely crazy and every frame was hand drawn (amazingly).

The thing with the (much-maligned) "We All Stand Together", is that if you could strip away all the orchestration and 'frog noises', and just have McCartney sitting there playing it on an acoustic guitar, it really isn't a bad song in itself. It's a much better children's song than "Yellow Submarine" or "All Together Now" is.

I like it.

I'm glad that people do. I've often found "We All Stand Together" is used among people who haven't heard much of McCartney's solo work to dismiss his entire output, though - which is a bit frustrating.

"Off The Ground" gets a bad rap

"Off The Ground" is OK IMO. Out of his most recent work, I have more of problem with "Driving Rain", which save for an excellent title track and a couple of nice ballads doesn't really contain all too much of value.

I like quite a lot of the material on "Driving Rain", but it would have been even better (in my opinion) if the album wasn't quite so long and McCartney had taken the "one man band" approach with the material rather than letting a slick, seasoned LA session band get their hands on it. I would have bumped 'Spinning On An Axis', 'Back In The Sunshine Again' and 'Riding Into Jaipur' from the album completely (I don't see 'Freedom' as part of the album and never have). 'Lonely Road', 'From A Lover To A Friend', 'She's Given Up Talking', 'I Do', 'Your Loving Flame' are all some of my favourite recent-period McCartney tunes, and 'Heather' may be the best thing on there - just don't expect any live airings of it anytime soon! ;)

http://radio.com/2015/09/24/classic-mccartney-wonder-duet-ebony-and-ivory-remixed/

I haven't heard the remixed version yet but the demos on the deluxe of Tug of War are worth hearing. The demo of "Take It Away" reveals the song to be very much a typical Paulie piano pounder, as opposed to the LA Express-ified final version.

"The Pound Is Sinking" loses the Uncle Albert-accent for its "Well I fear my dear/That it's eminently clear" bridge which makes it end of an oddly melancholy note.

"Wanderlust" is really nice in this stripped down form, just Wurlitzer piano, bass, drums, and vocals.

The best demo may be"Ebony and Ivory," which is all dreamy Rhodes and harmonies, and sounds like a sequel to "Waterfalls."

Not all of them are awesome. "Ballroom Dancing" already veered just shy of hokey and loses most of its momentum in demo form. But basically, the whole thing reinforces my belief that George Martin overproduced this record by some distance.

Yeah the "ebony" demo is lovely. Like often with macca, behind the sometimes annoying arrangements, there's a nice little song (and I don't even hate the final version of "ebony").
I wish that demo was longer.
There's also a great basic demo of "band on the run" if I remember well.

http://youtu.be/EkfdG1K_suM

Is that old or contemporary? Sounds like something Macca would do on tour now, or have playing over footage to set the mood before a show. Just going on the quality of his voice there.

'Ballroom Dancing' was always more than a bit crap though, IMO. I've never liked it.

Good question !
Apparently it's from the dvd deluxe reissue. I would guess it's old but not sure...

'Ballroom Dancing' was always more than a bit crap though, IMO. I've never liked it.

No, I get that, but there is something about the plinky plonky Abba groove and melody that I've liked -- plus his vocal when he jumps up an octave is just outstanding.

Love this demo version of "My Brave Face." McCartney and Costello sound like they're having so much fun harmonizing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-zrV_wIH34

Looking forward to this reissue. I'm still put off by the fact McCartney is skipping over albums in this remaster campaign.

he's listening to them to the first time

Hillmen! Hillmen! Hillmen! Hillmen!
Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh!

I think most of 'Press To Play" is glorious ( first time listener) and "Talk More Talk" is an earworm.

Ursa major….. ursa minor…..

I played PRESS TO PLAY for the first time ever, a few months ago, and I recall being struck by just one song (whatever it was).

PIPES OF PEACE, I think it's been longer since I heard but it has to be better -- the title track alone is a masterpiece.

PIPES OF PEACE also contains a song that I now recall is called 'average person' which is a remarkable Macca attempt to get at the ordinary life that was no longer his.

'only love remains' must be the good one on PRESS TO PLAY.

A very divisive album this “Press To Play”. Where many hear absolute crap I hear Macca and technology playing beautifully off each other. Lyrically possibly a banal mess but I’m kinda wowed by the machine slickness. Even the wailing sax on some of this feels right. At least moreso than the occasional wailing electrig gtr solos.

He plays a few of those wailing electric guitar solos too.

The weird machine reggae verses of "Good Times Coming" with those occasional ghostly pads/samples(?) floating in is just WOW. The use of gritty Emulator sampling thruout this album is superb, btw.

This is a fine headphone album.

Tracks 1-4 are a wonderful run.

yeah "Good Times Coming" is quietly a major standout for me. the transition into the chorus gets stuck in my head all the time.

I always forget that “It’s Not True” and “Tough on a Tightrope” were CD bonus tracks on Press To Play. The latter is quite good. The former is a really weird defense of Linda:

Some People say she's a bad girl
Some people think she's a fool
Some people tell me she's no good
But I'm telling you
It's not true, it's not true, it's not true
They say that my girl's a mad girl
No saying what she might do
Some people tell me she's crazy.
But I'm telling you
It's not true, it's not true, it's not true
Ooh...ooh...ooh...They've been talking to the fellas
Ooh...ooh...ooh...Have they never heard of jealousy?
Ooh...ooh...ooh...If she helps me write the melody
I'll let the words take care of themselves.
It's not true, it's not true, it's not true
It's not true, it's not true, it's not true
Ooh...ooh...ooh...They've been talking to the fellas
Ooh...ooh...ooh...Have they never heard of jealousy?
Ooh...ooh...ooh...If she helps me write the memories
I'll let the words take care of themselves.
Some people say she's a loser
Some people tell me that she's through
Some people say I don't love her
But I'm telling you
It's not true, it's not true, it's not true
What they're saying about her isn't true
Don't you know it isn't true?
It's not true...

LET THE SUN SHINE IN
SHINE IN SHINE IN
LET THE SUN SHINE IN ON YOUUUUUU

“Press To Play” any day. At least the first half.

“Good Times Coming/Feel the Sun” was the first thing that struck me listening at the store when I bought this used when I lived in Austin in the late 90s. I had forgotten the little keyboard solo, bass groove section tho which is kind of a hilariously funky breakdown.

The title of “Move Over Busker” has always reminded me of Buster, the Phil Collins movie. Which seems appropriate for this record.

Not sure if I mentioned it on this thread or elsewhere but Paul’s panoramic drawings in the sleeve notes of who is doing what where in the stereo mix really captures the aesthetic of PTP.

HOWEVER ABSOID

gave Tug of War a listen again this morning for the first time in many years, there are some unforgivable production choices on this, amazing to think of how deeply Martin allowed Take It Away to go into schmaltzland. however I liked Ballroom Dancing more than I remembered. Pound is Sinking and Wanderlust are still the standouts.

Pipes of Peace has the title track and Say Say Say going for it and not really anything else.

I’ve always loved The Man and The Other Me, which I think has an ingenious lyrical conceit.

dustbin lid?

mazing to think of how deeply Martin allowed Take It Away to go into schmaltzland.

wau, hard disagree! The fadeout with the horn section and the Paul-Linda-Eric Stewart harmonies are goose-pimply.

Not the dustbin lid, though I enjoy that too in a weird kind of way.

"Average Person" kinda sucks but is also a weird little earworm, especially the "Yes, dear, you heard right" segment. Also, the "I know for sure, one day I'm gonna be a super..." breakdown is wonderfully strange, just unfortunately pasted in to this more stately Tug of War soundscape which doesn't work for me. If it overall had a little more of a homemade 'pressed sandwich of weird synth sounds' McCartney II vibe, all horn-ish synths and imitation kazoo noises, I'd be on board! The more spacious production with the pianos and booming drums... bleah.

I dunno, I guess I should appreciate Macca once again trying to marry his really weird musings to a 'normal' pop-rock song, but....

tell me to PRESS!