C/D/S/D: Minutemen

god given

The initial version ate, but they rereleased it with the original mastering dealy-bop from vinyl, which is what I have. Sounds pretty good to me.

This is what I get for having a dry wit. Sheesh.

I thought that this was the plan, but Boon died before they could do any performance specific to this project so they had to use existing tapes of the voted-for songs.

Also, "double nickels on the dime" is trucker slang for driving at 55 mph on the 10 freeway, or so I was told. You can see a 10 fwy sign on the cover photo. I think you can also see the speedometer but I don't remember if it's 55.

I love the minutemen very much. My favorite minutemen record is "Buzz or Howl Under the Influence of Heat," but all of them are wonderful. The fIREHOSE records were never as good as their concerts. Watt's second solo record, "Contemplating the Engine Room", is lovely.

There's a guy that maintains a Minutemen web page that's very good, www.evol.org, but I couldn't get there just now. He also likes Sonic Youth (explaining the name of the site).

Me too, completely. "Double Nickles" is good but a little of it goes a long way. And the later stuff is just cheesy college rock.

this is directly from Mike Watt:

"the I-10 runs east-west, from santa monica, ca to jacksonville, fl. the I-110 (harbor freeway) goes to pedro (actually ends there). in the days of that picture though, it was called california route 11.

the "dime" part means doing exactly 55 mph in your car.

on both wheels, watt"

january 10, 2003

a happy 2003 for all. very sad about joe strummer passing from this life, strangely on the same day as d. boon did (december 22), seventeen years later. he will be missed. let me relate a funny thing about me and d. boon when we were younger: as boys, we were way into the who but never realized that folks like them from england in those days sang rock w/u.s. accents. later, when we first heard english punk rockers sing, we were convinced that a cat like joe strummer sounded the way he did cuz he was singing w/a cigarette in his mouth or something. it was a mindblow for us to find out he was actually singing w/the same accent that he talked like. weren't we a couple of corndogs, huh? me and d. boon liked that first clash record, the one w/the green cover and the singles that came out before it. we saw them w/the dils and bo diddly, saw kickboy get hurt by asshole bouncers. I put joe's name in a song I wrote for d. boon back then called "history lesson, part two." bye, joe.

What an exciting band! Firehose plays funky, uptempo music with an infectious spirit of adventure.
Funk, folk, prog, (good) poetry, and totally original songwriting are all extant, united only by a
an incredibly tight band. And trust me, in the technical department, firehose is definitely one of the best
bands I've ever heard. Every groove is perfectly locked in, not like a machine, but like road dogs who have
been rehearsing together, night and day, for decades. But this is no wankfest, and Firehose bears no
relation to any "jam" band. The songs are intelligent, economic (few break the 3-minute barrier) and
sometimes very affecting.
Standout tracks: "Locked In","This", and "Things Could Turn Around," which sounds like a
stripped down, mournful Yes demo
Rating: 9 out of 10

juist before i went on holiday in december I was arguing with anthony miccio. it was a clash vs minuteman thing.

Absolutely heartbreaking and mindblowing and smile-inducing. I've seen Mike Watt live a couple times, and each time he's done some old Minutemen tunes. He shook my hand and I helped him load stuff in (I got to the club early, due to miscommunication.) He's one of my heroes.

Search:
-"Do You Want New Wave Or Do You Want The Truth?"
-"Sickles & Hammers" (awesome instrumental later covered by Sebadoh)
-"Cohesion" (also an awesome instrumental)
-"Joy"
-"Bob Dylan Wrote Propaganda Songs"
-"Shit From An Old Notebook"
-"History Lesson, Part II"
-"Jesus & Tequila"
-"Shit You Hear At Parties"

Destroy:
-the covers EP, "Tour Spiel"
-some of the early stuff (mostly the latter half of the "Politics of Time" comp.) because it sounds like it was recorded with a mic buried under a few inches of dirt.

Classic.

I never really listened to much Minutemen before, but I spent this afternoon watching We Jam Econo and I think I could definitely become a fan. I wasn't expecting such joyful sounds, what a trip

oh man you are in for a treat

I'm excited!

oh man you are in for a treat

― some dude, Monday, January 28, 2013 7:09 PM (15 minutes ago)

so otm

srsly

i wanna watch we jam econo now

that and the fugazi doc always make me want to, you know, go out and do something with my life

Yea, enjoyed Jam Econo and have fond memories of seeing those guys in DC and Baltimore gigs.

Yeah I think the fact that it's so personal makes Jam Econo really just undeniably cool and inspiring.

and I was blown away by the amount of live footage, like did they have friends with a video cam just filming from day 1 or

and Mike Watt's mom is A+

they really are just one of the most inspiring bands ever, to me. i should get that on DVD, i only saw it once when they screened it at the black cat in DC.

Streaming on Netflix, if you have that.

One of the bands I'm most glad to have seen live (last NYC show, Oct '85).

wow awesome

no way! awesome work, morbz!

saw them on my 16th birthday in Pomona. I preferred more emo/goth stuff at the time but man did they ever bring it, no-one could deny

wow awesome

most of my classmates saw them a whole bunch of times. they gigged constantly. I never saw the Gun Club, because they never played all-ages shows, which pisses me off to no end.

if you really cared you would have gotten a fake id, or aged yourself somehow

perhaps via some sort of ray

Minutemen were one of those bands that no matter what bill they were on they would not take no for an answer. They just brought it.

One of the most interesting observations I read (or is it in the doc?) noted what a top heavy drummer Hurley was. While his peers would be all bass-snare-bass-snare, he's doing all these rolls and fills and crashes.

One of my biggest musical regrets is passing up 2 chances to see them in 1985. I was only 15 but double nickels was already a favorite, I don't know what I was thinking or what seemed more important to do those nights...

Yeah George was a very melodic drummer

I asked about this on Steve Hoffman. The rights are still with SST; it’s probably a COVID-related vinyl production snag. The LP was still being sold on their online store last year

Don’t buy it for an inflated price on Discogs or Amazon

Yes, was just looking. Cheapest vinyl copy is £75!

Completed listings on eBay showing a similar trend, if not quite so gougey.

It also appears to be OOP on CD, for what it's worth. Can get a copy got $71 on Amazon, or about $40 on discogs.

Read Beamish13's Hoffmann thread. Would be a real shame if pressing plates were gone with Rainbo.

Snapped up the seemingly very limited 2022 repress on clear vinyl from Discogs this week. Seems identical to the 2008 pressing (run-out grooves and “Mike’s Car Jam” missing from LP1).

You can buy the vinyl directly from SST now that includes a shirt

Coincidentally, I just finished Jim Ruland’s solid book on SST, Corporate Rock Sucks. It’s a bit hampered by the total lack of participation from every Black Flag and Minutemen member save for Keith Morris, and the book doesn’t spend enough time on really worthy artists that fell through the cracks during their 1987 production peak like Opal, but it does paint a relatively comprehensive picture of how the label imploded from within and morphed into a boutique vanity press for Greg Ginn’s shit. I just hope that the company can be dissolved and we can get an accurate assessment of the masters they’re supposedly holding onto. They also need a team of forensic accounts to sift through their bowels

https://www.instagram.com/p/CZmlmScpa2Z/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet
Getting re-cut for a new master??

I saw that. Funny, SST kept Bad Brains’ I Against I OOP for years. The second they reissue all of their other albums, SST represses it and claims they own it in perpetuity

There is a great quote in Ruland’s book about virtually none of SST’s pre-1990 recording contracts being likely to stand up to legal scrutiny. I just wish groups like Husker Du and the Minutemen could get their shit together and make an effort to acquire their works

Fwiw I dont think I've ever heard mike watt give out about his arrangement with sst, whatever it is. Does Bob Mould grumble?
I see all the vinyl options are already out of stock in the sst store. I'd have been shafted with the postage to UK anyway.

Watt always seems loyal to Ginn for whatever reason.

I’d love to know what George Hurley is up to nowadays. I think he’s a contractor?

George recently played a tribute gig for his brother Greg, who died in November. Greg was in Slivers who did a single for New Alliance way back when.

George’s new band is called The Wrinkling Brothers and I think they play semi-regularly in the south bay? I’m in an SST group on FB that has more than a few people from SST bands as well as diehards to keep track of things much better than I could.

Getting re-cut for a new master??

That post is from nearly a year ago; I assume the new cut was just to replace worn stampers or something?

Damn

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/greg-ginn-sst-and-rescuing-bands-catalogs.298972/

2012 discussion

I wonder when the HERE TO BLAST YOUR CONCEPT oral history book will come out. Seems likely that it’ll be this year given that the publisher acquired the manuscript in 2021.

There are just so many unknown factors. Where are the masters? Did Ginn deliberately use deceptive accounting techniques, or was he (and the VERY young employees SST hired) simply incompetent? (Interestingly, there is a quote from Kim Thayil in the Rutland’s book which states that Soundgarden never experienced any issues with getting royalties, but that may be attributed to the fact that they had a manager who knew what she was doing). Why do certain key albums seem to go in and out of print at random?

Having gone on a little kick w/ Paranoid Time and The Politics of Time recently I'd really love to hear a contemporary punk band that sounds like a Minutemen, that has their own unique thing but still with a similar sense of groove. There are current bands I like but none I can think of that fill the bill. Anyone have any recs?

*sounds like THE Minutemen

Another typo: The Punch Line, not The Politics of Time.

not sure if Hellier Ulysses are still an ongoing concern, but they had a slightly more boffin-y take on the Minutemen / Ron Johnson sound

Traps PS adapt the Minutemen blueprint in a more dance-punk direction and with more atmospheric production.

thread reminding me to listen to the bandsplain episode on the minutemen

also paper mice's "the funny papers" is more NMN than minutemen but is excellence in a similar vein

not so contemporary but ahleuchatistas' "what you will"(2006) is very minutemen-y instrumentals.
watt himself with belfi & pilia as "il sogno del marinaio" does very well, espec on their second cd, and also as member of "the hand to man band"

although the hand to man band is more languid beefhearty red krayola than herky jerk

Interesting that want for a band like a contemporary equivalent to a band while doingtheir own thing thing. Have had a simiilar question for a new MC5 that would somehow still sound as individual while picking up on a similar array of influences. But can't sound like teh band they're an equivalent to because that would undermine the request or whatever.
Minutemen were a product of their times so swept up into hardcore while still being as individual as they were. So had some kind of external influence somewhat directing their sound.
Would like to find other bands as original and a few of them did wind up on SST at the same time as the Minutemen.
Did the underground/alternative scene factionalise after a point so the subcultural Venn overlap drift apart and you don't get as many bands having a framework sound to mess around with and find their own take on to the same degree. Or are the pistols and the Clash etc still as important an influence outside of generic punk . Like just thinking taht without the presence of a punk scene would these bands have been even more maverick and have wound up just doing their own thing and being completely unknown. Would they have been able to gig and thereby develop their own sound without having a wider movement like that to add momentum and tap into.
The band obviously picked up on some current UK bands though probably more Wire, Gang of Four and the Pop Group bands who themselves were cherry picking what influences they picked up from the pool while adding in their own. I think there are direct quo9tes from Pop Group instrumental passages on Double Nickels.

I thought for a moment that maybe the back catalogue was being looked at and hopefully remastered.

You remember right Stevo, there was an Insta post from John Golden over a year ago where he was doing new stampers for Double Nickels, but who knows if they were remasters from the tapes or a refresh of the latter-day ones without the run-out grooves on LP1.

I also get what you’re saying in general and it’s a point that’s been made before: that some artists are so unique (or at least synthesise their influences in such a unique way) that defies future iteration by those it influences. Everyone knows the old saying about The Velvet Underground but there’s a fundamental simplicity there that was easy to pick up on. Whereas there’s an argument to be made that the music (in the style of) of the Minutemen could only have been made by the Minutemen and that specific musical and personal interplay between Watt and D. and George, a ferment of musical and political ideas, the head and the heart, etc.

one element of the band would be its individuality so as soon as it starts sounding like a version of an earlier band it loses that element. Possibly a bit Catch 22 but I think of note.

& yeah may be down to interpersonal chemistry within the band. Might be of note to see the difference between bands picking up on largely teh same influences and see how much the band interpersonal chemistry changes things between bands. Assuming it is a given that different players will pick up on the same influences in different ways and so on.

Hoping that teh process of playing is a process of reinvention. The philosopher Gadamer has a great perspective on tradition taht I'm reminded of there. where what keeps a tradition able to continu8e is the process of continual reinvention of a core idea/set of ideas.

I know it's essentially a question without an answer: "Who is totally unique but sounds like these other guys?" But I was also thinking of the other part of the question, "but still has a similar sense of groove?" They incorporated disparate genres and elements in a way that was jagged and sharp but also loose. I've heard plenty of bands who draw on eclectic influences but end up sounding all over the place (black midi) or like the Red Hot Chili Peppers or Primus. So the question is more, "who has a similarly refined aesthetic?" I know there will be another Watt and D. Boon. There have been some interesting suggestions so far.

I haven't heard a great deal of Parquet Courts but they seem like something that would about fit the bill. Also White Denim

> I know it's essentially a question without an answer:

I think it's not even possible without the fourth Minuteman: President Ronald Reagan.

> "but still has a similar sense of groove?"

But for the death-before-midrange and jazz sympathies between the players, this Kurws album comes the closest for me:

https://kurws.bandcamp.com/album/dziura-w-getcie-hole-in-the-ghetto

This is probably cheating but Big Walnuts Yonder:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bfraz58MpI

Nick Reinhart, Mike Watt, Nels Cline, and Greg Saunier