Interesting ... are you referring to the CD (I have it on vinyl)? I don't hear anything like what you described on the vinyl version.
This has always been my least favourite New Order album ... and since 2001, I have "Get Ready", so I don't need "Brotherhood" anymore :)
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 27 January 2005 23:57 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dude, are you a 15 year old asian chick? (jingleberries), Friday, 28 January 2005 00:03 (nineteen years ago) link
As for the mix...yeah, I'm referring to the CD. I have "Low-Life" on vinyl and CD and prefer the former.
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Friday, 28 January 2005 00:28 (nineteen years ago) link
"I don't believe in reincarnation because I refuse to come back as a bug or a rabbit!"
"You know, you're a real 'up' person."
― Edward Bax (EdBax), Friday, 28 January 2005 04:31 (nineteen years ago) link
Absolutely OTM, Low-Life is dead brilliant, except that it wasn't my first New Order album or record and I'm having a hard time figuring out what might have been my first New Order record right now. Those 12"es get confusing. I'll have to think about that some more, very carefully. [writes it down on the 'to do' list, quite bothered by it, in fact]
Brotherhood? In all honesty, although I enjoyed it quite a bit AT THE TIME, it is only now significant for me for ONE SONG and ONE SONG only: "All Day Long". Did anyone say "masterpiece"? Well, they have so many that the word doesn't actually mean so much for New Order, so take it with a grain of salt.
Ceremony = Masterpiece, for example. Whoops this thread is about Brotherhood. Sorry.
"All Day Long" could have been a Suzanne Vega song
Look, I myself was a Suzanne Vega fan back in the day but let's not get tooo crazy. Nevertheless I much appreciate the rest of your glowing review of the song.
I am sick to death of "Bizarre Love Triangle" and even more so of "Blue Monday" and I think the band is too. Well, to be honest I only know they are sick of Blue Monday. But I don't have any problem with anyone who still has a thing for those songs.
― Bimble... (Bimble...), Friday, 28 January 2005 06:29 (nineteen years ago) link
"brotherhood" is so, so under-rated. hell, even i under-rated it at first. i got it from blackpool music library when i was 14 or 15 (late eighties, maybe just into the nineties) and thought, eew, it's all guitars and stuff. where's blue monday? where's true faith? the only thing i really loved was BLT, and even then i preferred the version i had on substance.
two days after taking the record back, i went into severe withdrawal. like you say, ned, it gets under your skin without even knowing. i went straight down the second-hand shop and picked up a copy (the copy i still have!) on vinyl, and it instantly became my second-favourite NO album of all time after "technique". i don't know how i missed it at first.
i've said this before and i'll say it again: i think it eats low-life for breakfast. low-life has more stand-out moments of OMG genius ("love vigilantes", "perfect kiss", "elegia") but "brotherhood" is a perfect whole.
anybody else noticed how the coda of "pure" by the lightning seeds is, ahem, a homage to "all day long"?
I doubt the band themselves have ever said much good about "Brotherhood".
uncut - or one of the other UK mags - did a big NO special a few years ago, and i'm sure the "brotherhood" chat went something like this:
interviewer: what about brotherhood, then?barney: don't think i like that. don't remember it being any good. what's on it?interviewer: paradise, BLT, all day long, every second ...barney: fuck, that sounds like a great album. i'm going home to listen to it.
and of course when they came back and did that peel session in the late nineties, "paradise" was one of the songs. IIRC they always said they weren't happy with the production on "brotherhood" but thought it was one of their finest collections of songs. i like the way it sounds; i love the way it's the album where hooky really maxed out his chorus pedal.
"krafty", as i've said elsewhere, has a real "brotherhood" vibe about it.
this is not a loaded question at all, i promisened: did you like "get ready"? i can't remember what you've said about it elsewhere.
― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Friday, 28 January 2005 09:02 (nineteen years ago) link
That was a '98 issue of Uncut, around the time they started gigging together again. That Peel Session you mentioned is AWESOME (NEW!! NEW!! NEW!! VERSION OF "ISOLATION" WOW!!!). Damn, now I'll have to dig out that issue of "Uncut" and try to remember where I've stashed the mp3's of that Peel Session ...
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Friday, 28 January 2005 09:14 (nineteen years ago) link
[thinks]
ach, fuck work. i did two 12-hour shifts in a row earlier this week. they can hold on for another 10 minutes. [chime, whirr]. let's see if they're there ...
... wow, it takes its time booting up these days ...
right. there's an iTunes playlist called "B-sides and Unreleased, circa Get Ready". the actual MP3s aren't on the HD: i must have burned them onto a backup CD somewhere. but that should be easy to find. it would seem they're all there:
true faithisolationtouched by the hand of godatmosphereparadise
the next track after that claims to be a version of 60MPH, which IIRC is a pre-mix that's almost listenable.
one day soon i shall dig the actual songs out. because yes, i remember that version of "isolation" kicking so much ass it hurt.
― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Friday, 28 January 2005 09:42 (nineteen years ago) link
What got me whn I first bought Brotherhood was the palpable rawness in the (vinyl album's) rockier first side - almost harkening back to Joy Division sonically in places. That and then the steely, boxy sound of the synth oriented flip side just won me over. Last time i played this album was a couple of months ago and I was intrigued by how off the cuff it sounds overall - almost like it was recorded over a weekend with a few overdubs here and there. Definitely their most relaxed sounding recording; a real difference from what came later on.
― Jay Vee (Manon_70), Friday, 28 January 2005 10:13 (nineteen years ago) link
**Why'd they keep hanging around with Stephen Hague again?**
Absolutely! What a fucking useless producer! I really can't stand his trademark thin, watered-down sound : e.g Republic or his work with Siouxsie and The Banshees.
― Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 28 January 2005 10:34 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Friday, 28 January 2005 11:48 (nineteen years ago) link
― moldau, Friday, 28 January 2005 12:02 (nineteen years ago) link
it's got all my favourite sounds, and it's THE mix of guitar and synth that i tend to hold everything else up to. sort of. there's an element of myth of myself going on there.
― Jaunty Alan (Alan), Friday, 28 January 2005 12:27 (nineteen years ago) link
― Bimble... (Bimble...), Friday, 28 January 2005 13:53 (nineteen years ago) link
1)Movement2)Blue Monday 12-inch3)Power, Corruption, & Lies4)1981-1982 EP (EGG,Temptation,Hurt,Etc-very convenient, that one)5)Ceremony 12-inch6)Confusion 12-inch7)Thieves Like Us 12-inch8)Perfect Kiss 12-inch9)Brotherhood10)Low Life
― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 28 January 2005 14:28 (nineteen years ago) link
On "Krafty" - this track sounds like heavy mining of "Way of Life" with a lot of unnecessary production. This and the entirety of the last album would be a lot better if they didn't spend so much time slicking shit up.
― Scott Warner (thream), Friday, 28 January 2005 15:27 (nineteen years ago) link
which is probably the point.
― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Friday, 28 January 2005 16:21 (nineteen years ago) link
1. Movement2. EGG 12" with Cries and Whispers and Mesh3. Temptation 12"4. Thieves Like Us/Lonesome Tonight 12"5. Technique6. Ceremony 7" (The 3-piece recording)7. Power Corruption and Lies8. Confusion 12"9. Low Life10. Blue Monday 12" orig pressing.
― Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 28 January 2005 21:01 (nineteen years ago) link
From the Omelette album.
Bernard:
"A single egg in the mixing bowlA simple chance to keep me wholeA few more eggs are getting friedI think you think that love has died."
*Hook bassline, combination Morris acoustic/electronic percussion, shimmering Gilbert synth*
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 28 January 2005 21:06 (nineteen years ago) link
Oh yes, it's grand.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 28 January 2005 21:09 (nineteen years ago) link
1. Technique2. Round and Round 12" (Kevin Saunderson remixes OMG)3. Ceremony 7"4. Get Ready YEAH THAT'S RIGHT Get Ready5. Regret (single + remixes)6. Power, Corruption and Lies7. Run2 12"8. Peel Session #1 9. True Faith Remix 12"10. Bizarre Love Triangle 12"
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Friday, 28 January 2005 21:18 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Friday, 28 January 2005 21:18 (nineteen years ago) link
― donut christ (donut), Friday, 28 January 2005 21:20 (nineteen years ago) link
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Friday, 28 January 2005 21:24 (nineteen years ago) link
Maybe Gillian was more essential than any of us realized at the time. I was always a fan of hers for punk rock reasons: we need a keyboardist? How 'bout my girlfriend? She can't play very well, but we'll teach her!
Now I'm curious about the extent of her contributions beyond arrangements.
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Friday, 28 January 2005 22:12 (nineteen years ago) link
The drum into of Paradise sound exactly like the drum intro of Pixies "Bone Machine"
― Neil FC (Neil FC), Friday, 28 January 2005 23:18 (nineteen years ago) link
― Bimble... (Bimble...), Saturday, 29 January 2005 02:12 (nineteen years ago) link
"You know, you're a real 'lettuce' person."
― donut christ (donut), Saturday, 29 January 2005 02:22 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 29 January 2005 02:25 (nineteen years ago) link
― David A. (Davant), Saturday, 29 January 2005 03:01 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Saturday, 29 January 2005 03:11 (nineteen years ago) link
― Bimble... (Bimble...), Saturday, 29 January 2005 03:14 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 29 January 2005 03:15 (nineteen years ago) link
'exciting chase music for Sylvester Stallone cop drama 1986!' soundtracks which I admit is sorta pointless. Jan Hammer was cornering that market, let him do the job.
Ha ha ha, no kidding! Dare I mention Beverly Hills Cop or something?
― Bimble... (Bimble...), Saturday, 29 January 2005 04:14 (nineteen years ago) link
― donut christ (donut), Saturday, 29 January 2005 04:36 (nineteen years ago) link
And Ned, your post reminded me that I've never really known whether to think of JD/NO as just one band or as two distinct entities (the answer probably lies in the middle). Closer certainly fits, but Unknown Pleasures was just a year out, sadly (for the purposes of my completely arbitrary time frame, of course). But, yeah. Amazing, really. We were utterly spoiled! And we didn't deserve it!
― David A. (Davant), Saturday, 29 January 2005 04:39 (nineteen years ago) link
― David A. (Davant), Saturday, 29 January 2005 04:40 (nineteen years ago) link
"All The Way" (I skipped Fine Time, sorry, nothing against it, really but I wanted to get into the meat of the album quickly) seems to me like a better, more fully fleshed out song than anything on Brotherhood besides "All Day Long". I think overall I probably do like Technique more than Brotherhood, but I didn't really realize that until now.
I still think Get Ready is better than either of these, though, and I raised my fist in the air with a big "WOOO HOO" as if a sports team had just won when you said upthread it was grand, Ned!
Also I do believe I've narrowed down what my first New Order record must have been or at least I've narrowed it down to three, but it's quite possible I bought two or more of them all on the same day: Power Corruption & Lies, Blue Monday 12", and the U.S. 1981-1982 EP comprising most of the EGG & Temptation 12"es.
The first time I realized how much I really liked New Order was when I heard "Your Silent Face". I can't remember if I had heard Blue Monday or Temptation before it or not, but when I heard YSF I suddenly had this flash of intuition that whatever else that band did, I was going to like. Perhaps not a completely true statement in retrospect, but true enough, I have no qualms about calling them my favourite band, and I've never had any similar flash of intution about a band or artist like that.
― Bimble... (Bimble...), Saturday, 29 January 2005 04:41 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 29 January 2005 04:41 (nineteen years ago) link
― David A. (Davant), Saturday, 29 January 2005 04:45 (nineteen years ago) link
― David A. (Davant), Saturday, 29 January 2005 04:48 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 29 January 2005 04:50 (nineteen years ago) link
Side note: NO lovers everywhere. Answer me something. I love pretty much everything by the band, right up to Get Ready. And I mean nearly every song, not just album. But something scared me away from Get Ready. I'm not sure why -- perhaps it's that feeling when you realise an artist you love has run out of ideas, grown stale, whatever (Wild Mood Swings and Bloodflowers, right? Sorry, Ned and Dan, I've really tried) -- but I avoided it completely. I've only heard "Crystal" and I do like it a lot. Now, here's the question: based on what I've just written, would you say I was insane for giving Get Ready the cold shoulder, and would I love it after all?
xpost to Ned. Damn, I never saw that little trap! Good thing it never happened then, really.
― David A. (Davant), Saturday, 29 January 2005 04:57 (nineteen years ago) link
― David A. (Davant), Saturday, 29 January 2005 04:59 (nineteen years ago) link
1. EGG 12"2. Ceremony 12" (the non-3 piece version, I guess, but I don't really care tooo much)3. Movement4. Temptation 12" if I could just put the Substance version on the A-side instead5. PCL6. Low Life7. Theives Like Us 12"8. Get Ready9. Confusion 12" (THE ORIGINAL ONE DAMNIT)10. The two early Peel Sessions? Can we pick that? No? Oh okay, then Touched By The Hand Of God, then11. Here To Stay CD single
― Bimble... (Bimble...), Saturday, 29 January 2005 05:06 (nineteen years ago) link
I do believe you were wise to spot this, Ned. Good call.
David, you will never know if you like Get Ready until you try it. There is certainly a lack of consensus here, and I'm not presumptuous enough to even try to predict which side you might fall on.
― Bimble... (Bimble...), Saturday, 29 January 2005 05:11 (nineteen years ago) link
But of course, you're right.
(I can't believe I've managed to go this long without hearing anything other than "Crystal", anyway.)
― David A. (Davant), Saturday, 29 January 2005 06:09 (nineteen years ago) link
― Bimble... (Bimble...), Saturday, 29 January 2005 07:03 (nineteen years ago) link
― Bimble... (Bimble...), Saturday, 29 January 2005 07:06 (nineteen years ago) link
No one's answered my question yet: Gillian's role.
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Saturday, 29 January 2005 13:34 (nineteen years ago) link
25 years old today!
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 29 September 2011 16:11 (twelve years ago) link
http://www.xfm.co.uk/xfm-25-brotherhood-by-new-order
worth listening to
― brotherlovesdub, Thursday, 29 September 2011 16:35 (twelve years ago) link
Cool, thanks!
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 29 September 2011 16:46 (twelve years ago) link
Never understood why even so many new order fans find this record somewhat mediocre, whereas I think it's their pinnacle. Listening to it again for first time in ages, when I got to this track, I started searching for the words to describe the effect this music has on me, without much success, although for some reason the phrase 'effortless grace' popped into my mind (during the wonderful last minute). Then I recalled there was an ancient ILM thread about Brotherhood, that I'd read once a decade ago, and reading it again, in reference to the very song Way of Life, I was amazed to see the following:
"Simple moments, simple songs but it all combines and recombines, and again, it's like...why NOT rock this way, with such grace and power all at once? So apparently effortless, like watching a massive airplane take off into the sunset with no extraneous noise and no exhaust."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ahhx9MiHGmA
― Campari G&T, Saturday, 28 July 2012 05:11 (eleven years ago) link
You told me about yourself,How you once lived with someone elseThe way of life that you had triedThe way they hurt you deep insideThat's the only thing about itI can't find anyone to doubt itThat's the only thing about itI can't find anyone to doubt itWho do you think you're talking to?When I look at you I know you're lyingAll you say and doSeems to fall apart and leave you crying
― Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 2 February 2019 03:56 (five years ago) link
Their last great album IMO
― So, This Leaked (Capitaine Jay Vee), Saturday, 2 February 2019 04:04 (five years ago) link
Nonsense
― licorice oratorio (baaderonixx), Saturday, 2 February 2019 08:17 (five years ago) link
Brotherhood is pretty underrated but Technique is mostly just an even better version of it
― ufo, Saturday, 2 February 2019 09:01 (five years ago) link
As i posted waaay upthread aeons ago - "Technique" is fine but too in thrall to house music and Ecstasy. Not a bad album but also not entirely the New Order I knew and loved up til then.
― So, This Leaked (Capitaine Jay Vee), Saturday, 2 February 2019 12:55 (five years ago) link
I wasn't really into rolling snare fills with my melodicas.
― So, This Leaked (Capitaine Jay Vee), Saturday, 2 February 2019 12:56 (five years ago) link
"Fine Time" is the only track that's really like that and it's an endearing mess but not my favourite
it has a similar guitar-based and synth-based split to Brotherhood, they're just all mixed together instead of being one side guitars and one side synths
i'll take "Round & Round", "Mr. Disco", "Vanishing Point" and "Dream Attack" over Brotherhood side two (even though that has "Bizarre Love Triangle") and "All The Way", "Love Less" and "Run" are far better than Brotherhood side one
― ufo, Saturday, 2 February 2019 13:10 (five years ago) link
Brotherhood would have a better reputation if its production values were as pristine as Technique's.
― Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Tuesday, 5 February 2019 16:34 (five years ago) link
"Technique" is fine but too in thrall to house music and Ecstasy. Not a bad album but also not entirely the New Order I knew and loved up til then.
thanks Geirbot
― The Very Fugly Caterpillar (sic), Tuesday, 5 February 2019 19:00 (five years ago) link
how can the album be in thrall to house music and Ecstasy when five tracks are rock songs? Unless you meant house and Ecstasy brought them to their songwriting peak.
― Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 5 February 2019 20:37 (five years ago) link
All Day Long is probably the best NO track in my dumb opinion. I haven't heard anything that sounds quite like that one.
― frogbs, Tuesday, 5 February 2019 21:11 (five years ago) link
"Your Silent Face" does something similar imo
― Number None, Tuesday, 5 February 2019 22:39 (five years ago) link
very true
― frogbs, Tuesday, 5 February 2019 22:40 (five years ago) link
"All the Way" too.
― Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 5 February 2019 22:47 (five years ago) link
― The Very Fugly Caterpillar (sic), Tuesday, February 5, 2019 2:00 PM (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Nice try but ... nah.
Alfred - I feel those influences blanded out their sound somehow. All the interviews I remember from that time talked of endless partying in Ibiza and the influence of the cool new stuff they'd been hearing when they went out to the island's clubs. I just heard - and hear - a glossy record missing the roughness and fire of the releases that led up to it. Sorry folks, I don't really like my New Order slick.
― So, This Leaked (Capitaine Jay Vee), Tuesday, 5 February 2019 23:04 (five years ago) link
so you don't like slick and glossy?
― Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 5 February 2019 23:41 (five years ago) link
Not with New Order, no.
― So, This Leaked (Capitaine Jay Vee), Wednesday, 6 February 2019 00:20 (five years ago) link
the New Order albums i'm not down w/as much are Get Ready and WFTSC. Music Complete brought me back, moreso after seeing the songs performed live.
― omar little, Wednesday, 6 February 2019 00:37 (five years ago) link
and they still are! Lots of them!
― Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 6 February 2019 00:59 (five years ago) link
I have a strange relationship with this album. I think back when I got it I was aware that it was the highest Xgau rated New Order album besides "Substance" (maybe he gave it an A?), but it's probably the one I went back to the least when I had them all. Not bad, definitely a good record, sounds a bit like a computer built out of cardboard.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 6 February 2019 01:05 (five years ago) link
nah I love it and I love its rough sound; it wasn't deliberate, but it reassured the rockists worried that after PCL and LL they'd moved too close to the dance floor. It was the last classic-era album I bought in 1992, and it shocked me with its guitar-bass-drums base.
― Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 6 February 2019 01:08 (five years ago) link
According to Wikipedia, Bizarre Love Triangle didn't chart in either the UK or the US - although my memory was that it was everywhere at the time!
― Zelda Zonk, Wednesday, 6 February 2019 01:42 (five years ago) link
In Miami the Shep Pettibone remix was a part of life from 1987-1993. Then after the Frente! revival I heard a different remix. But, yes, it was not an official single.
― Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 6 February 2019 01:43 (five years ago) link
"all day long" >>>>>>
― american bradass (BradNelson), Wednesday, 8 May 2019 04:12 (four years ago) link
i think i really love this record now, it's great, singles band my ass
― american bradass (BradNelson), Wednesday, 8 May 2019 04:14 (four years ago) link
it's very closely their second best behind technique imo, so good
― ufo, Wednesday, 8 May 2019 04:17 (four years ago) link
"All Day Long" was my favourite when it was new(-ish -- bought it shortly before "True Faith" arrived). The variations on the basic theme in the coda just sounded luvly to 12-y/o ears.
That was my first NO purchase and I was confused. Not much of it sounded like "Bizarre Love Triangle" and the lyrics seemed kinda half-baked, even to a Duran Duran fan. LOL. Took me a little while to realise that that was part of the charm and that most of their albums are a loveable mess. I have no idea how to rank them these days, though I guess I must have for that poll a few years ago.
― Nag! Nag! Nag!, Wednesday, 8 May 2019 06:51 (four years ago) link
"way of life"/"bizarre love triangle"/"all day long" is such a great sequence
― ufo, Wednesday, 8 May 2019 07:08 (four years ago) link
I loved All Day Long. To me PCL, Low Life and Brotherhood were three perfect albums. I know Technique was also great but I think I had moved on by the time it was released
― Dan S, Wednesday, 8 May 2019 07:10 (four years ago) link
It was definitely, quantifiably everywhere in Aus. Top 5 apparently, from the same source, and #1 here in Victoria. Certainly felt like everyone dug it that (southern) summer. My neighbour had the 12" with "Bizarre Dub Triangle" on the flipside and quite a few people enjoyed/endured my tape dub with several versions back to back.
― Nag! Nag! Nag!, Wednesday, 8 May 2019 07:19 (four years ago) link