Jean-Luc Godard: S and D

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Re. his Dziga Vertov films, I've only seen two. Vent d'Est is very interesting and sometimes beautiful and shocking, albeit even more infuriating than usual for JLG. Letter to Jane is just infuriating, although interesting in the context of his career I suppose. I verges on structuralist experiment and that is how I've seen the other D-V films described. Still dying to see Tout va bien, though, his class-struggle film with Jane Fonda and Yves Montand.

As I've mention on another thread I value some of Godard's later (post-79) work as highly as the '60s films. Esp. Sauve qui peut, Passion, First Name: Carmen, Hail Mary, and Hélas pour moi. A lot of people swear by Histoire(s) du cinéma--I've only seen two episodes of this.

Amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 4 March 2003 19:54 (twenty-one years ago) link

Ryan, do yourself a favor and just watch Dead Man twice. Not only will you save yourself the torment of realizing you were right about Weekend all along, but DM has a much better soundtrack

innercitykitty (innercitykitty), Tuesday, 4 March 2003 20:33 (twenty-one years ago) link

I got the chronology a little messed up. Letter to Jane isn't a Groupe Dziga-Vertov film, although it was made by two of that group's participants (Godard and Gorin); it was made after Tout va bien (both '72) and indeed refers to that film. It would take someone more familiar with the films of this period to determine the essential differences (aesthetic and political) b/t the D-Z films of 68-70 and the later films made by some of the same people.

Amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 4 March 2003 21:10 (twenty-one years ago) link

(One more aside: interestingly the Japanese seem more fond of Godard's films of this period than anyone else. La Chinoise and Vent d'Est are available on DVD there, but are difficult to see in any format in the West.)

Amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 4 March 2003 21:12 (twenty-one years ago) link

The first two parts of Histoire(s) du Cinema are incredibly moving if you're any kind of film fan.

Andrew L (Andrew L), Tuesday, 4 March 2003 21:40 (twenty-one years ago) link

one year passes...
Has anyone read the Colin Macabe book yet?

@d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 18 March 2004 20:39 (twenty years ago) link

Also, what are people's thoughts on Two Or Three Things I Know About Her?


@d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 18 March 2004 20:41 (twenty years ago) link

I think it is about an airport.

RJG (RJG), Thursday, 18 March 2004 20:42 (twenty years ago) link

Are you sure about that?

@d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 18 March 2004 20:47 (twenty years ago) link

I can confirm.

N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 18 March 2004 20:49 (twenty years ago) link

At the risk of sounding stupid (not that this ever bother me, as you all know), may I ask how?

@d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 18 March 2004 21:09 (twenty years ago) link

Also - is godard "funny"?

@d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 18 March 2004 21:10 (twenty years ago) link

I just had in my head that it was about an airport.

Some bits of 'Une Femme Est Une Femme' are very funny.

N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 18 March 2004 21:11 (twenty years ago) link

I kind of love 2 or 3 things.

It's not about an airport. It's about a supermarket, a prostitute, a cup of coffee, et al, etc.

N.'s last line is correct aussi.

the bellefox, Thursday, 18 March 2004 21:25 (twenty years ago) link

I agree.

RJG (RJG), Thursday, 18 March 2004 21:27 (twenty years ago) link

Thanks, I was beginning to think that "2 Or 3 Things" was the most oblique film about an airport I had ever seen.

@d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 18 March 2004 21:28 (twenty years ago) link

Bande A Part is very funny indeed as well as being my favourite of his films (and one of my favourite of all time) in spite of not having Belomodo in it (who makes me swoon even more than Mark Ruffalo does, @d@am)

jed_ (jed), Thursday, 18 March 2004 21:33 (twenty years ago) link

Bald dude with his star log?

Spinktor au de toilette (El Spinktor), Thursday, 18 March 2004 21:35 (twenty years ago) link

pierrot le fou is hilarious if you're a misanthrope like me

dean! (deangulberry), Thursday, 18 March 2004 21:36 (twenty years ago) link

All his films are funny.

Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 18 March 2004 21:51 (twenty years ago) link

nouvelle vague isn't.

dean! (deangulberry), Thursday, 18 March 2004 22:22 (twenty years ago) link

haha - yeah, you're right. Actually when I was going over in my head all the films of his that I've seen, Nouvelle Vague was the only one that struck me as humorless. But it was rhetorically neater to say they all are.

Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 18 March 2004 22:24 (twenty years ago) link

can i point out the irony of being a maoist film maker, maybe i dont get it, but if you were making art (or something like it) wouldnt you avoid an ideolofy which is this iconoclastic ?

anthony, Thursday, 18 March 2004 22:27 (twenty years ago) link

i suppose godard finds humor in nv because he is the ultimate bitch. (xpost)

dean! (deangulberry), Thursday, 18 March 2004 22:30 (twenty years ago) link

his maoist flirtations were brief, and about 35 years ago

!!!! (amateurist), Thursday, 18 March 2004 22:46 (twenty years ago) link

'elogé de l'amour' isn't too funny either.

cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 18 March 2004 23:33 (twenty years ago) link

it has its moments. i would say that it dabbles in irony and abject absurdity more than it does in humor. but yes, you're mostly right.

dean! (deangulberry), Thursday, 18 March 2004 23:37 (twenty years ago) link

Breathless is good.

latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 18 March 2004 23:52 (twenty years ago) link

Jed, I would like to see if your Ruffalo lust holds up after his irritating performance in Eternal Sunshine Of The Spotless Mind.

@d@ml (nordicskilla), Friday, 19 March 2004 00:01 (twenty years ago) link

godard's early films (up till '66 or so) have nothing to do with maoism. after that i can't say, but the early stuff is very funny and interesting. band a parte is my favorite too.

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 19 March 2004 04:43 (twenty years ago) link

One to lure me out of retirement!

I've seen most of his films up to the early 80s, and really every single one is worth seeing, even if some of the D-Z ones are almost unwatchable. The best of them is 'Vent d'Est', which was intended by its financiers as a kind of 'Bullet for the General'-style Marxist western, and indeed it has Gian Maria Volonte in it. It ends up as an essay on the politics of film-making, and is so a kind of sequel to 'Le Mepris', which is probably the best point of entry for Godard.

The jazzy score for 'Breathless' is lame, and I kind of don't think of it as a Godard at all. It was co-written with Truffaut.

His politics are always going to be a sticking point: the whole Maoist craze that afflicted France in the 60s was obviously a wrong turn, and JLG was a bit of a gadfly: you wouldn't catch Marker, Varda, or Rouch (more classically 'leftist' film-makers) making the same mistake.

This being so, I prefer his D-Z films, impossible as they are, to 'Tout va Bien', which was an attempt, via stars (Fonda and Montard) to 'reconnect' with the mass audience (it's about student politics, left-wing union politics, media politics); you'd be better off watching more straightforward contemporary films on the same subject by Ken Loach and other BBC directors of that era.

If I had to pick one, I guess it would be 'Masculin-Feminin', made in the winter of 65-66, and the start of his political odyssey, following 'Pierrot le Fou', his farewell to Hollywood.

Henry K M (Enrique), Friday, 19 March 2004 09:04 (twenty years ago) link

'passion' is funny, sometimes just in its audacity

!!!! (amateurist), Friday, 19 March 2004 10:02 (twenty years ago) link

two months pass...
http://www.criterionco.com/content/images/full_boxshot/238_box_348x490.jpg

I wish Criterion made posters out of their box art. I can't wait to watch this and the short that accompanies it.

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Thursday, 17 June 2004 02:07 (nineteen years ago) link

that's a cool cover (except for the repeat of the title on the bottom), but the film is one of godard's worst imo. funny enough, criterion is supposed to be releasing "lettre à jane" on dvd, which is another of his worst. i guess they can make it up to us by releasing "je vous salue, marie" one of these days.

amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 17 June 2004 05:39 (nineteen years ago) link

four months pass...
How is "Le Mepris"?

jed_ (jed), Sunday, 24 October 2004 16:36 (nineteen years ago) link

Excellent. The argument in the living room is gripping. The third act is -- somewhat incomprehensible, but good.

Remy (x Jeremy), Sunday, 24 October 2004 17:34 (nineteen years ago) link

this one looks marginally better:

http://play.com/play247.asp?page=title&r=R2&title=162776

RJG (RJG), Sunday, 24 October 2004 17:47 (nineteen years ago) link

Two Or Three Things I Know About Her is about the suburbs (la banlieue)

--bruno, Sunday, 24 October 2004 17:47 (nineteen years ago) link

Thank you, RJG, I appreciate your efforts. Actually, I think you can get it for less in the real shops. It is 'fullscreen' - booooooooooo!

I think I prefer this 'Jean Vigo' thing because it has an interview with Otar Iosseliani:

http://play.com/play247.asp?page=title&r=R2&title=123208

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Sunday, 24 October 2004 17:54 (nineteen years ago) link

I think they might have been filmed, in 'fullscreen'.

I can't remember but.

RJG (RJG), Sunday, 24 October 2004 17:58 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh, right. Well, they ought to stretch them then.

I only have a 'fullscreen' portable telly to watch them on anyway.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Sunday, 24 October 2004 18:04 (nineteen years ago) link

godard is one of those people i'd actually rather not hear about again for a long while, although i like some of his films, esp. hail mary/first name: carmen/detective/etc.

amateur!!!st (amateurist), Sunday, 24 October 2004 18:51 (nineteen years ago) link

three months pass...
The 3 DVD box set referred to above, which is now GBP 19.99 in HMV or Virgin sale, is it...dubbed? It says subtitles, none.

Did you watch 'Elogie d'amour', Jerry? I taped it, on the video, off the telly, but I haven't watched it yet.

Peter Stringbender (PJ Miller), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 16:04 (nineteen years ago) link

that's 90 minutes you can safely record over, Peter.

Miles Finch, Tuesday, 25 January 2005 16:59 (nineteen years ago) link

the complete jean vigo is great.

cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 17:05 (nineteen years ago) link

otm! they shd do more of 'that kind of thing'.

Miles Finch, Wednesday, 26 January 2005 09:52 (nineteen years ago) link

I think Elogie d'Amour is well worth watching, though probably only once.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 13:17 (nineteen years ago) link

I thought elogie d'amour was very good when I watched in the cinema, I can remember walking down byres road explaining to my friend exactly why (it had something to do with history & memory). strangely though I can't remember anything about the film other than the fact it has a piano player and a colour change (?) in it. I doubt I'd like it as much now, knowing what I do now.

cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 13:33 (nineteen years ago) link

IIRC

First Half: Paris. moody b/w. a sensitive young man is working on a play/novel/poem/opera. plentiful references to books JLG probably hasn't read. a scene near the canal where part of 'L'Atalante' was shot.
Second Half: Brittany. extraordinary colour. an american (working for Spielberg) is trying to buy the rights to a resistance's fighter's autobiography. how awful--the yanks have no history, they have to steal 'ours' to make films. something vague about juliette binoche.

not a very lucid film, and honestly if it wasn't godard doing it no-one would have given a toss.

Miles Finch, Wednesday, 26 January 2005 15:56 (nineteen years ago) link

Boys chat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_Ac0Xc4lQw

Daniel_Rf, Monday, 26 September 2022 08:55 (one year ago) link

Love that. OG title: “The Baby And The Dinosaur”!

SQUIRREL MEAT!! (Capitaine Jay Vee), Monday, 26 September 2022 10:18 (one year ago) link

Saw band a part for the first time. So good. Favorite moment is the voice over lead up and strange walk down the street at night.

calstars, Monday, 26 September 2022 19:53 (one year ago) link

I had a strong feeling that the Brody book had a certain personal animus behind it, particularly in his writing about the later years; this could be entirely my projection, but Brody's sting at being rejected by Godard after a day of interviews on his 60s movies really comes across. So I wondered if that explained his emphasis on certain unpleasant topics like the treatment of the young girl in Sauve Qui Peut or the romantic pursuit of the actress in For Ever Mozart. It's still a good book, though.

All of this may have been emphasized for me because the Colin MacCabe biography, which came out earlier, is very reticent about "personal details". It's probably the only biography I can imagine that mentions the subject's suicide attempts in a footnote.

Halfway there but for you, Monday, 26 September 2022 20:05 (one year ago) link

Hm! If anything, he's too forgiving of Godard's uh fascinations. He

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 26 September 2022 20:43 (one year ago) link

And his reporting on the SQP incident was pretty fair imo

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 26 September 2022 20:43 (one year ago) link

Brody very active in defending Godard's reputation on twitter.

Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 27 September 2022 09:12 (one year ago) link

Watched about 15 mins. Once Godard gets going (and Daney shuts up) you can feel how important the materiality of the medium is for him. You know this, but I've seldom watched him try and articulate it. Like when he talks about the act of projection.

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 27 September 2022 10:32 (one year ago) link

May read it but that quote is terrible.

Fredric Jameson writes on Jean-Luc Godard.

‘If cinema really is dying, then he died with it; or better still, it died with him.’https://t.co/9pZDvpZHIf

— New Left Review (@NewLeftReview) September 28, 2022

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 28 September 2022 14:33 (one year ago) link

Picture makes it look like Godard secretly killed cinema and is gloating.

Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 28 September 2022 14:51 (one year ago) link

Looks like that meme of the girl looking at the camera while the house burns lol

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 28 September 2022 14:56 (one year ago) link

https://i.imgur.com/4CobVKP.jpg

DPRK in Cincinnati (WmC), Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:15 (one year ago) link

Is that from his Ulysses project?

Ride On Proserpina (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:27 (one year ago) link

everything fredric jameson writes is terrible

mark s, Wednesday, 28 September 2022 17:17 (one year ago) link

He's a fan of poptimism

Toshirō Nofune (The Seventh ILXorai), Wednesday, 28 September 2022 18:35 (one year ago) link

Was wondering.

Ride On Proserpina (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 28 September 2022 18:43 (one year ago) link

two weeks pass...

Nice, thanks!

We Have Never Been Secondary Modern (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 15 October 2022 18:24 (one year ago) link

three weeks pass...

Just watched ÉLOGE DE L'AMOUR (2001), only 19 years after Jerry the Nipper referred to it at the start of the thread.

I couldn't make much sense of it. Broadly confirms the sense that while early Godard is dazzling, late Godard is rambling.

the pinefox, Tuesday, 8 November 2022 23:31 (one year ago) link

Of the Godard I've seen from the last couple decades (which is not comprehensive), that one is definitely the weakest.

ex-McKinsey wonk who looks like a human version of a rat (Eric H.), Wednesday, 9 November 2022 00:03 (one year ago) link

He made five films from 2000. Image Book > Goodbye to Language (will we ever see it in 3D again) >>>> In Praise of Love and Our Music.

Haven't seen Film Socialisme.

Those top two films would comfortably be in a top ten for Godard.

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 9 November 2022 00:10 (one year ago) link

Lots of shorts and skits and stuff outside those five features tho

ex-McKinsey wonk who looks like a human version of a rat (Eric H.), Wednesday, 9 November 2022 00:23 (one year ago) link

(I do need to circle back and see Film Socialisme imo)

ex-McKinsey wonk who looks like a human version of a rat (Eric H.), Wednesday, 9 November 2022 00:24 (one year ago) link

It's dire.

the pinefox, Wednesday, 9 November 2022 09:08 (one year ago) link

I have really never engaged with Godard's short film output at all..

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 9 November 2022 09:14 (one year ago) link

Richard Brody of The New Yorker declared In Praise of Love the greatest film of the 2000s, stating that it is "one of the most unusual, tremulous, and understated of love stories, as well as the story of love itself; ... Godard’s third first film, thus something of a rebirth of cinema."

Unusually preposterous.

the pinefox, Wednesday, 9 November 2022 10:11 (one year ago) link

Yeah, everyone knows that's Harold And Kumar Go To White Castle

Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 9 November 2022 10:25 (one year ago) link

He made five films from 2000

I've seen them, at least two of them twice, but they're vaguer in memory than the superficially similar 80s and 90s movies and I need to see them again.
The first Godard I've rewatched since his death was Made in USA, not especially beloved by most, but I was surprised just how much plot (though heavily obscured) and how many speaking parts the film contains. Was it his last nod at a "genre" film (unless Detective counts)?

Halfway there but for you, Wednesday, 9 November 2022 16:25 (one year ago) link

Unusually preposterous.

― the pinefox

That's our Richard!

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 9 November 2022 16:34 (one year ago) link

one month passes...

Imagine being in a film, not understanding any of it then watching it months later and it never making sense.

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 13 December 2022 13:59 (one year ago) link

i mean a lot of people in POPULAR MOVIE FRANCHISE DELETED must feel like that

jus do jus (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 13 December 2022 14:43 (one year ago) link

quite a little burgess meredith anecdote in that piece

waste of compute (One Eye Open), Tuesday, 13 December 2022 19:14 (one year ago) link


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