When the POLL Comes Down: The Stones' "Some Girls"

Did you ever read Mikal Gilmore's Night Beat? Excellent summer of '87 interview with Jagger (some of the best longform interviews with Joe Strummer, Dylan, Sinead, etc I've ever read).

I got it out of the library a long time ago but didn't pay it that much attention. I should go back. Gilmore is probably the best stylist of all the obvious-RS-canon guys, something I appreciate more as the years go by.

(Just to be clear: "obvious-RS-canon guys" meaning writers who articulate the mag's core musical values rather than the likes of e.g. Hunter S. Thompson.)

I'd like to read more of Gilmore's music writing - have only read Shot Through The Heart, which is just incredible.

'When I die I'll go to heaven, cause I've spent my time in hell' is cribbed from a Korean war vet motto, isn't it?

"Shattered," I guess. Hard choice.

I know this isn't the place to register your antipathy towards this album, but I will anyway. I was finishing up high school when it came out, and also, I'm pretty sure, just discovering Let It Bleed and Beggars Banquet (I'd known the hits, of course, but not "You Got the Silver" and "Prodigal Son" and all the other amazing album tracks). So beyond a half-hearted "Oh, that's pretty good," Some Girls didn't mean anything to me--not then, not now. It's like the difference between Gosford Park and Nashville. Gosford Park is very well made, and you can tell it's Altman, but it's just not Nashville--it's not really even close. It also makes me think of that Joy Division line: "I've got the spirit, but lose the feeling." Some Girls is good music well played. The moment has passed. For me, anyway. Clearly a lot of people love this album.

That's exactly how I feel about Tattoo You.

One's reaction depends on how much of the band's mythos you're ready to accept. I knew the Stones first as snarling craftsmen (c/o the Steel Wheels period).

I think it's a timeline thing. For you, Tatoo You = Some Girls. For me, Some Girls = snarling craftsmen. I wouldn't mind losing about 15 years, though, even if it means Some Girls becomes my favorite Rolling Stones album. Want to trade timelines?

Some Girls came out just before I entered high school. I had discovered Beggars Banquet and Let it Bleed a year of two before that. I thought Some Girls measured up to those classics at the time a lot better than Goats Head Soup and It's Only Rock 'n' Roll did.

this is up there with rumors for my favorite coke-rock record. voted "shattered" because it seems most emblematic of the record as a whole, but "miss you" is a close second.

Ben Williams once posted on ILM that "Shattered" was an overlooked punk-funk classic, and he's right. That's what I voted for.

i'd buy this except for the overlooked part. contrarily, "shattered" is the only punk-funk classic i can think of that was in regular rock radio rotation when i was in high school. (granted it's not like the djs were saying, "and here's a punk-funk classic from mick and the boys!")

In my 4th grade class we had a copy of this on cassette for some reason & I used to play Shattered over and over again. I was very literal about songs back then, and probably liked it because it sounded like it was about breaking things.

Some Girls was definitely a re-entry point into the Stones for me. I loved them as a kid because my brother owned a few of their classic albums (though the one I gravitated to was the stop sign hits collection, Through the Past Darkly -- the album that "formed me" as much as any single album could be said do have done so). I guess you could say I kept tabs on them throughout the seventies -- I was familiar with all of the albums -- but they ceased being a primary obsession as I got lost in the haze of glitter, prog, punk, etc. (though they were definitely always there). For reasons others have already suggested (punk, mostly, at least in connection with my life) Some Girls just seemed to perfectly fit that moment in what I still cherish as one of the most amazing years I've ever lived through for discovering music (new and old). The Stones mattered to me, in a renewed way, all over again with that record. All that being said, it's not a record I find myself listening to often, though I love the best stuff from it whenever it comes on (I could seriously do without ever hearing "Miss You" and maybe even "Beast of Burden" again, though; the former, for sure, is as played-out for me as "Satisfaction" and "Start Me Up" and half a dozen other Stones classics).

I think I might vote "Respectable."

It has to be up there with Exile on Main as one of the most richly detailed album covers.

Fantastic album . Too many options, but have to go with "Miss You" for myriad reasons.

i'd buy this except for the overlooked part. contrarily, "shattered" is the only punk-funk classic i can think of that was in regular rock radio rotation when i was in high school. (granted it's not like the djs were saying, "and here's a punk-funk classic from mick and the boys!")

He wasn't talking about the radio, he was talking about all the punk-funk comps that were coming out at the time of his comment.

the Stones' 'SNL' appearance from this time period rocked my 11-year-old world.
Yup. Watching Mick lick Ron Woods' lips during "Shattered" was one of the more disturbing things I had seen on TV at that time.
"Respectable" for me.

Or rather, about the punk-funk revivalism happening at the time. (No way would the Stones license anything to Strut!) xpost

Or maybe the lip-licking was on "Respectable?"

I know everyone's tired of the "punk" influence on Some Girls, but that SNL performance of Shattered (which I'd never seen) is about "punkiest" I've ever seen them...I wonder if the ripped shirt routine isn't just the "tatters" but an R. Hell ripoff?

The one Stones ballad I never, ever get tired of hearing

This, Alfred, is madness! The Stones excel at ballads, in my view. Just off the top of my head I can think of a bunch: "Back Street Girl," "Ruby Tuesday," "Waiting on a Friend," "Let it Loose," "Wild Horses," "No Expectations," "She Smiled Sweetly," "Angie," "If You Need Me," "Time is On My Side," the list goes on...

What other 70s (or 60s-70s) acts got a boost from punk and showed it in their 78(7?)-79 releases...

Well, Neil Young, obviously. And ZZ Top, on Deguello (listen to "Manic Mechanic," for instance.) And I think in Christgau's 1978 Pazz & Jop essay he mentioned the Who (and Warren Zevon, who was covering the Sex Pistols live apparently), though I'm not sure I've ever understood the claim in reference to Who Are You (maybe because I've never listened to it much.) (And then there's Queen, who were clearly punking out when they did "Sheer Heart Attack," in 1977.)

"shattered" is the only punk-funk classic i can think of that was in regular rock radio rotation when i was in high school

Well, I'm not sure when you were in high school, but there's also "Another One Bites The Dust," "Whip It," Flying Lizards' "Money" (assuming that got much AOR play -- definitely got some in Detroit), Herman Brood's "Saturday Night," and uh, "Emotional Rescue," for starters (though those were all a year or two later -- and since I graduated high school in 1978, all of out my own window, actually.)

I also didn't really start seriously keeping tabs on music until early 1979, so I had no preconceptions about the Stones when I first heard Some Girls. I think it's one of their best albums -- at least on a level with Let It Bleed and Beggars Banquet, maybe better.

(Guess I'm also assuming all of those titles count as "punk funk," and as "classics," obviously. I suppose somebody could make the case, say, that "Another One Bites The Dust" and "Emotional Rescue" aren't punk enough, or "Saturday Night" isn't classic enough, or whatever.)

Also think you could easily make the case that punk/new wave helped revitalize Ian Hunter, on 1979's You're Never Alone With A Schizophrenic, too (though Mott were kind of punk to begin with.)

What might make the Stones unique is how they were clearly revitalized by both punk and disco (and yeah, they'd shown some disco influence before, but not as blatantly as "Miss You," I don't think.)

Also, fwiw, I've always connected "Emotional Rescue" with punk/new wave in my head because, the first time I heard it on an AOR station in Detroit, the DJ actually said it sounded like the Flying Lizards to him!

And oh, there's also Peter Gabriel -- "D.I.Y." was on his second album, in 1978. (And he may have been listening to disco as well, but I'm not sure that manifested itself until later.) And Robert Wyatt from Soft Machine was on Rough Trade by 1980 (and covering Chic, duh), and then there's Hawkwind and Be Bop Deluxe guys (in Hawklords and Red Noise), but by now were talking real cult acts (at least in the States), so maybe they shouldn't count. And Ronstadt and Billy Joel were making new wave moves by '80, etc. etc. (Pretty sure we did a whole long thread on this once, but it was keyed more to a couple years later.)

I'm not sure I've ever understood the claim in reference to Who Are You (maybe because I've never listened to it much.)

Three reasons I can think of:

1) title track is apparently about Townshend's encounter with some punks in Soho;
2) The Who themselves -- esp. "My Generation" -- were obviously a key punk influence, so part of it was just good timing; virtually anything they released at that time (save an entire album filled with ballads, maybe) would've carried such an expectation;
3) further to #2... a certain amount of the "revitalized by punk" claims were, I'd argue, simply by default. Almost any of the '60s/'70s hard rock icons who appeared to have weathered the storm might've been awarded the tag (save, I suppose, Dylan who was busy being saved or something).

Actually, speaking of key punk influences, the Kinks circa Low Budget would be another old band who seem to have been inspired by both disco ("Superman") and punk ("Attitude," maybe other tracks) in 1979.

"punk"

This, Alfred, is madness! The Stones excel at ballads, in my view.

No, you're right, but something about the loping, ever so slightly lazy cadence of "Beast of Burden" lends itself to replaying (and I HATE "Angie").

can't listen to "Wild Horses" either

you better use scare quotes around " 'punk' " around here, pardner!

is "angie" the most 70s am gold the stones got? i'm always amazed that the old rock ppl who think some girls is when the stones started to suck (or really black and blue, but definitely when they 'went disco') aren't ott outraged by "angie" - it could be gilbert o'sullivan or terry jacks or harry chapin or something, makes james taylor sound like james osterberg. i love it for it's soppiness and get a bigger thrill from hearing it on oldies radio than i do from hearing "beast of burden" but thank god it's not played anywhere near as much as "wild horses".

wild horses is perhaps the most interminably excruciatingly boring song they ever did...or just overplayed?

I dunno why Bowie got flak for being an 'affected' singer when Jagger's singing on "Angie" is ludicrous. I don't mind Jagger at all on "Dead Flowers" or "Lady Jane" but the ironies are pinned down on those numbers.

i kinda like "angie" -- especially for jagger's hilarious pronunciations ... "annnnjuh!"

o it's the whispers that makes it for me

(Guess I'm also assuming all of those titles count as "punk funk," and as "classics," obviously. I suppose somebody could make the case, say, that "Another One Bites The Dust" and "Emotional Rescue" aren't punk enough, or "Saturday Night" isn't classic enough, or whatever.)

well, yeah. maybe i mean "shattered" was the most punk-funk song that was in the classic-rock canon by the mid-80s. anyway. i get matos' point, that it was left out of the revivalist reference points. maybe because it's so familiar it's easy to forget.

i <3 u guys! picked the title track cause of mine ever so fond summer of '79 then 14-year-old's memories of strolling up and down the beach and checkin' out the babes as it blasted out ye olde tape recorder (also for featuring a most BADASS harmonica performance!!!).

In response to something upthread: the established artists who were most affected by punk were, not surprisingly, the ones who felt (correctly or not) they'd had a hand in inventing some aspect of it. I posted a poll on this very thing last year. Reed, Thunders, Johansen, and Iggy were the four most obvious examples, but I think more or less the same dynamic was at work with Some Girls and the late-'70s work of Neil Young, David Bowie, Pete Townshend, Ray Davies, and probably a few others. Seals & Crofts, on the other hand, seemed largely unaffected by punk.

"shattered" is awesome. "go ahead, bite the big apple, don't mind the maggots, uh huh." somehow it's more sinister to me than "sympathy"

"shattered" was the most punk-funk song that was in the classic-rock canon by the mid-80s

Not gonna argue with this (whether any of the songs I named before count as competition or not), but I will say that, in the 32 years since it came out, yesterday is the first time I ever saw somebody refer to "Shattered" as "punk-funk". I remember people noting a possible punk influence back when it was new, but they seemed to leave out the other half. (Or maybe they didn't, and I just never noticed.) (Actually, I could argue that there were classic-rock-canon songs that sounded more punk and funk but that preceded punk -- by, say, Hendrix, Aerosmith, Zep, whoever -- but I assume those don't count.)

And yeah, Bowie was obviously another '70s guy who was seemingly taking lessons from both punk and disco by decade's end, duh - arguably even more than the Stones, come to think of it. And Johansen had a disco track or two on '79's In Style. And Queen swung both ways by The Game in '80. So the Stones weren't unique after all. (Also don't get at all why somebody would put punk in quote marks in these cases. Just because all these bands were trying to do what they thought punk had done doesn't mean they wound up sounding like the Sex Pistols. Being inspired by something isn't the same as being something.)

"punk" cuz this whole narrative is boring and done and it's sad that like half a century after the fact rock critics still can't talk about rock without sticking closely to the script. laziness + wasted opportunities = one hack profession no one can be too sad to see die.

As somebody who has spent a good quarter century "sticking closely to the script," I, for one, appreciate your incisive comments, "balls". (Fwiw, I haven't much thought in terms of "punk" for forever. But that doesn't mean I'll pretend it never happened, if somebody brings it up.)

someone bringing up corny rock crits lazily parading out the same old boring lines isn't actually a cue for some corny rock crit to lazily parade out the same old boring line.

unless you're lenny and squiggy (or maybe you're chiming in about lenny and the squigtones punk move).

Gotcha -- Unlike people whining about rock critics, which isn't corny or lazy at all. (In fact, it's never been done before, iirc.)

you've been doing that for a living for 25 years also right?