While googling, the first song of theirs I encountered was "Rainbowarriors" and I was like "why are people objecting so heavily to these girls, this is kind of pretty if not entirely my thing"
Then I googled "cocorosie racism" and discovered "Jesus Loves Me" and really at this point I need to stop writing before I just lose it.
― HI DERE, Monday, 21 June 2010 19:57 (thirteen years ago) link
aero i have a hard time believing you hated joanna newsom so much, if you like CR! it's like the same thing only the songs are a third as long and have a quarter as much going on
― kenny logins (goole), Monday, 21 June 2010 19:57 (thirteen years ago) link
country teasers are pretty awesome
― m@tt h (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 21 June 2010 19:57 (thirteen years ago) link
Just to get a sense of where I'm coming from, if ever I encounter Robert Smith doing some shit like "Jesus Loves Me", I will be throwing away and deleting a lot of music I've built up over the past 23 years.
― HI DERE, Monday, 21 June 2010 19:58 (thirteen years ago) link
i can believe this thread has me digging up christian death youtubes
― kenny logins (goole), Monday, 21 June 2010 19:59 (thirteen years ago) link
it's like the same thing only the songs are a third as long and have a quarter as much going on
yeah this is def of a piece with Newsom, no?
― in my day we had to walk 10 miles in the snow for VU bootleg (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 21 June 2010 19:59 (thirteen years ago) link
lol "can't", ah well the jig is up i guess
― kenny logins (goole), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:00 (thirteen years ago) link
They "explained" Jesus Loves Me in this interview: http://www.splendidezine.com/features/cocorosie/
― De que estas hablando? (Tannenbaum Schmidt), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:00 (thirteen years ago) link
i really want to listen to this band but i lent someone my headphones so they could do online training :(
― call all destroyer, Monday, 21 June 2010 20:00 (thirteen years ago) link
These are some good analyses, HI DERE, free wings.
― The Bartered Bride (Ówen P.), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:00 (thirteen years ago) link
fortunately I don't think they'll get any worse than lol tolhurst in blackface
― The Black Keys - white boys can still throw down (crüt), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:01 (thirteen years ago) link
"a third as long and have a quarter as much going on" is a big plus in my book - I do not want to hear any singer-songwriter's 10-minute indulgence
I liked JN's first album a lot but nobody pays attention when I say that, I cannot be bothered with any super-long "song suites" or whatever, I attribute this to my godawful lawlessness
― get your bucket of free wings (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:03 (thirteen years ago) link
well a third as long i can get with, yeah
― kenny logins (goole), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:04 (thirteen years ago) link
lol
― Jamie_ATP, Monday, 21 June 2010 20:05 (thirteen years ago) link
argh, I'm trying to write something coherent about this elsewhere, but HI DERE is going to remain OTM about this, and I enjoy Jamie Stewart but his commentary on Cocorosie is absolutely moronic, on multiple levels
― oɔsıqɐu (nabisco), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:05 (thirteen years ago) link
the beginning of that linked interview is hilarious
xp: about the only reason The Cure got away with Lol in blackface in that video with me is because I'm totally inconsistent and because the entire thing is incompetent from head to toe (also that's the video where they were calling Lol a cunt IIRC so it seemed like him being in blackface was more band inside cruelty than an overt statement on race)
― HI DERE, Monday, 21 June 2010 20:06 (thirteen years ago) link
I borrowed a couple of you guys' posts for this: http://chainofknives.tumblr.com/ / http://chainofknives.tumblr.com/post/722859553/op-ed-an-artists-dialogue-on-cocorosies-grey-oceans
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 21 June 2010 20:12 (thirteen years ago) link
Really? Well... "Jesus Loves Me", I don't know if you recognize it, but it's a children's song, and it's really popular. I don't know if it's really popular in Canada as well. Anyway, kids learn it really early, and it's really stripping down Christianity to its most basic, to a child's perspective. There's such a large population of African-Americans for whom Christianity is a huge thing, but Christianity still remains to be exclusive, and is very segregated, and it's very intricately connected to an old-fashioned mentality that's still very racist. To me, it's a huge contradiction with Christ's message.
*sigh*
this person is stupid
― in my day we had to walk 10 miles in the snow for VU bootleg (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:20 (thirteen years ago) link
like if anything there's some really fundamental misreading of black culture/Xtianity going on there, among other things
yeah. it is sooooooooooooo not the Christian church's fault that Christian churches are largely segregated
― The Black Keys - white boys can still throw down (crüt), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:22 (thirteen years ago) link
not to mention a fundamental ignorance of history
― HI DERE, Monday, 21 June 2010 20:24 (thirteen years ago) link
Really? Well... "Jesus Loves Me", I don't know if you recognize it, but it's a Cocorosie song, and it's really popular. I don't know if it's really popular in Canada as well. Anyway, kids learn it really early, and it's really stripping down Christianity to its most basic, to a child's perspective. There's such a large population of African-Americans for whom indie rock is a huge thing, but indie rock still remains to be exclusive, and is very segregated, and it's very intricately connected to an old-fashioned mentality that's still very racist. To me, it's a huge contradiction with Cocorosie's message.
― The Black Keys - white boys can still throw down (crüt), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:25 (thirteen years ago) link
I like the country teasers but really can't listen to cocorosie
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:25 (thirteen years ago) link
my favorite part of that is "it's really popular. I don't know if it's really popular in Canada as well."
― The Black Keys - white boys can still throw down (crüt), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:26 (thirteen years ago) link
xpost re country teasers
i also don't really get why they were mentioned on this thread
― m@tt h (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:27 (thirteen years ago) link
I mean I understand why someone would mention them, but they are like leagues ahead in many ways
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:29 (thirteen years ago) link
Splendid: Yeah. What was the statement behind "Jesus Loves Me"?Bianca Casady: You really don't know? Or you just want to hear it out of my mouth?
Bianca Casady: You really don't know? Or you just want to hear it out of my mouth?
you are being interviewed. for a publication. do you really expect their entire readership to already have an opinion on that song?
― WEB SHERIFF (LOLK), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:30 (thirteen years ago) link
i want to hear it out of your eyes
― tylerw, Monday, 21 June 2010 20:31 (thirteen years ago) link
btw if someone comes in this thread now talking about the male nurse I'm gonna get mad
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:32 (thirteen years ago) link
is "the male nurse" the new legal name of genesis p-orridge?
― The Black Keys - white boys can still throw down (crüt), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:33 (thirteen years ago) link
Uh... really? Given the turn the conversation has taken, you don't understand why someone would mention a band who released an album like The Empire Strikes Back? (which I have not heard, but based on its description and blatant lyrical cribbing from The Wall seems at least to be a more coherent, thought out exercise in satire than "Jesus Loves Me")
― HI DERE, Monday, 21 June 2010 20:41 (thirteen years ago) link
ah ok, never heard that one, not super familiar other than hearing them and being like "these guys are like the only decent fall rip off band"
― m@tt h (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:43 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah a bunch of their tracks have super racist lyrics, I'm sure there should be some quotes around the word racist or something but wtvr.
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:47 (thirteen years ago) link
the country teasers ref was a joke really; sort of funny to imagine the people offended by the controversial parts of two gallants/coco rosie listening to them (although there's obviously a huge difference in the way they use racial issues)
― Jamie_ATP, Monday, 21 June 2010 20:47 (thirteen years ago) link
I left my itunes at work open once and when I came back in the room this track was playing really loud
Pedal steel flourishes nail it squarely in a country tradition, but the lyrics are completely mad. Wallers cruises through every negative stereotype in the racist handbook, ending with a triumphant, “If I had my way/ I’d have all of you shot.”
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:50 (thirteen years ago) link
lol :[
― The Black Keys - white boys can still throw down (crüt), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:51 (thirteen years ago) link
oh man here are a couple of awesome lines from a Pitchfork review of Two Gallants:
I want to believe that Two Gallants had good intentions in covering this song. But intention is fleeting; if it ever becomes known to the public, it's quickly dispatched to the mists of time. Only the artifact remains. And this artifact scans to me as deeply insensitive and offensive. Spin.com brushed it off as an account of racism; occasional Pitchfork contributor Jonathan Zwickel hailed it as "nothing short of revelatory" in New Times. But what value is there in an account of racism from people who've never stared down its barrel? What could it possibly reveal? If these myopic responses reveal anything, it's that the topic is much easier to gloss over than to actually discuss. Such an inflammatory project needs a complex intellectual purpose to make it more than a cheap provocation. This rigor doesn't come through in the cover, and when a Drowned in Sound interviewer pressed Stephens on the topic of "Long Summer Day", he equivocated. "I don't think it comes as something strategic," he said, and the interviewer demurred, because he was "in no mood" to really broach the topic.
full review (SPOILER: 4.8): http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/8262-what-the-toll-tells/
last paragraph is also killer
― HI DERE, Monday, 21 June 2010 20:52 (thirteen years ago) link
lol @ staring down the barrel of racism
― The Black Keys - white boys can still throw down (crüt), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:54 (thirteen years ago) link
not so lol when you've actually done so; it does feel kind of like being in the scope of an invisible sniper rifle 24/7
― HI DERE, Monday, 21 June 2010 20:58 (thirteen years ago) link
i guess, i don't know, it always comes back for me to deciding who has the right to use certain words.
― plax (ico), Monday, 21 June 2010 21:00 (thirteen years ago) link
tbh I've never had any idea what to think of the country teasers, I do like their music a lot tho
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Monday, 21 June 2010 21:02 (thirteen years ago) link
great opening line: Nostalgic indie bands treat history like a playground, and one need not convey an understanding of the monkey bars' provenance in order to swing on them.
― The Black Keys - white boys can still throw down (crüt), Monday, 21 June 2010 21:04 (thirteen years ago) link
For me, it's more a responsibility/consequences thing than anything else.
You can use whatever words you want however you want to use them; you should also be ready for whatever reaction will come back your way, intended or not, and make sure you can explain why you chose to communicate the way you did if someone takes your words in a manner you don't intend. In this case, CocoRosie recorded a song they wanted to be taken a particular way, but didn't use enough care in crafting their message to support their intent (IMO). Therefore, they are evoking an unintended reaction in me where I want them to die in a fire and their explanation, which is incoherent in its construction and very light on an understanding of the situation they wanted to criticize, does not assuage or mollify that reaction in me.
― HI DERE, Monday, 21 June 2010 21:10 (thirteen years ago) link
careful, plax, about confusing rights with reactions. people have the right to use all sorts of words. other people have the right to figure they used them badly or stupidly.
ha, xpost
― oɔsıqɐu (nabisco), Monday, 21 June 2010 21:13 (thirteen years ago) link
did we switch bodies today or something
― HI DERE, Monday, 21 June 2010 21:15 (thirteen years ago) link
what if nabisco and Hi Dere switched bodies with the cocorosie sisters?
― i don't know whether it's really popular in Canada as well (sarahel), Monday, 21 June 2010 21:16 (thirteen years ago) link
okay, but that doesnt happen with EVERY word, the same would go with like, I dunno faggot or something. A certain position in society gives you a right to use it in a way that will demand less justification for using it.
I'm not saying this is a bad thing btw, I think its good. I mean I think the partic. context I bring to the word faggot, is in a way a type of justification and I wouldnt feel comfortable with somebody who doesnt bring that automatic context using that word without establishing, implicitly or not, how and why they are using it, y'know?
― plax (ico), Monday, 21 June 2010 21:19 (thirteen years ago) link
besides being a plot for a potentially horrible indie version of a Wayans-esque comedy
― i don't know whether it's really popular in Canada as well (sarahel), Monday, 21 June 2010 21:19 (thirteen years ago) link
i dunno, i think those rights and those reactions are kind of bound up somehow
― plax (ico), Monday, 21 June 2010 21:20 (thirteen years ago) link
I mean, this is kind of cheap, but I think it's telling:
In the States, we've had very few, but some occasions, where people have gotten confused by the message, and wonder if we were being offensive, and maybe if we were ourselves racist, which was really shocking. There was one gig we had where we weren't allowed to sing that song. ... It was shocking to us.
She is shocked -- SHOCKED, I tell you -- that if you use a racial slur a dozen or so times in a song, some people might wonder if you're being offensive and/or racist. That is the absolute LAST reaction they would ever have expected to come from repeated use of a racial slur. They were straight-up FLABBERGASTED that a venue might prefer them not to repeatedly deploy a racial slur in a performance. I mean, who would EVER think, while putting a racial slur in your song lyrics, that anyone would react that way? It is shocking.
^^ I say this not to be a snarky jerk, but like ... wow, if that outcome is honestly shocking to you, can we agree that you do not have nearly enough awareness of American race issues to address them in quite this way? Maybe that's just me.
― oɔsıqɐu (nabisco), Monday, 21 June 2010 21:22 (thirteen years ago) link