CocoRosie member goes to "Kill Whitey" Ironic dance parties and gets called out by brainwashed.com as racist

I almost don't want to ask...

Xiu Xiu fans: Evaluate this (profoundly NWS) picture of Jamie Stewart.

Good Friday is a CocoRosie song worth having.

Xiu Xiu guy sounds like a prick.

Very glad to read Brandon and the contributors of that article going to bat for CocoRosie
I like Jamie's contribution
Antony's thing is OTM although he didn't have to point all his fingers all at once

"I have concluded that the reception of CocoRosie in the US reflects the denial of a greater feminist issue, an ecological issue, a racial issue, a spiritual issue."

Yeah, that must be it.

Haha, remember when every ILM thread was like the above?

xp I feel the same way, tho.
That statement isn't talking about "I don't like CocoRosie"
but rather the way that that band gets taken down so often and with so much vitriol

I think the running thread with all the contributors of the Stereogum piece
is that it's easy for people to write off a couple of ostensibly privileged women
who do experiment, and do reveal so much of themselves
CocoRosie have put themselves in a vulnerable position
and the majority of music publications have turned it into bear-baiting
most of which is unenjoyable, unfunny pollution

I wouldn't go so far as to express that this is a result of "music journalism misogyny"
as is intimated

never heard a note and judging by their photos/sleeves I don't think I want to

Thanks for stopping by.

Anyway kudos to j0hn and Brandon for being a couple of straight guys who're willing to rep for some crazy bitches
Lightening the load off us faggots

I wish I hadn't asked...

I don't think bands get ripped apart just for being female/experimental/revealing. Look on Metacritic - the mainstream rock mags have all been fairly polite - "a step back in the right direction" (Q), "hard going, but one can only applaud their ambition" (Uncut). I don't see any bear-baiting going on.

I thought bears were big fat hairy gay guys

Sorry, gays don't read Q or Uncut

but in seriousness I did notice that that with Grey Oceans people have replaced "pretentious" and "insufferable" with "over-ambitious"

In all honesty, the only reason CocoRosie was ever on my radar in the first place was because of this thread, which was not going to paint them in a very positive light.

xp re: bears, yes, and apparently in the 17th century people used to tie dogs to them and things

what Q or uncut say about 'weirdo' or women artists (and who cares) is a whole other question apart from whether CR are any good or not

I was just using them as egs of titles who might be expected to recoil from Coco Rosie. I went on Metacritic looking for egs of the "vitriol" Owen P is talking about and came up empty.

I would have thought Jamie Stewart was too old and experienced to make such juvenile comments (and I don't even think that really is him blowing that horse in that pic).

Though I don't know why I would think old & experienced necessarily = thoughtful & smart

My dislike of the CocoRosie sisters and their albums and their whole thing has nothing to do with me being male and hetero. It's all about my finely tuned bullshit detector, and those girls fucking stink like bullshit.

But, you see, they have put themselves in a vulnerable position by stinking like bullshit.

My dislike of the CocoRosie sisters and their albums and their whole thing has nothing to do with me being male and hetero. It's all about my finely tuned bullshit detector, and those girls fucking stink like bullshit.

This.

And that since their debut, little of their music has struck me as particularly... good.

Like, I get that people who like Grey Oceans are bummed that not everyone agrees. But to write essays explaining how it's because we're sexist buffoons is pretty fucking enraging. I wish these contributors did a better job describing the pleasures they find in the music. (Some do try to do this, but largely it isn't precise enough.)

Given that Cocorosie are a band that, to outside eyes, stink of scenesterism, the NY-loft-microcosm vibe of many of those Stereogum contributors also doesn't help. I'm surprised Sean Lennon didn't chime in.

Meanwhile, here are two Cocorosie songs I like a lot:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A57DFvq8zcE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRQZMreM5Qs

Nobody is accusing anybody of being misogynist

Listening to "Jesus Loves Me" for the first time was a deeply upsetting experience, particularly in the wake of the Kill Whitey thing.

Anyway, this isn't really my fight. See you over in the Scout Niblett thread.

not digging their aesthetic at all. broken old-timey folk with crappy loops/noise/digital effects = no thank you. sonic ugliness prevents me from caring about what any of their lyrics are actually about.

actively seeking out the one where they talk about how Jesus doesn't love their nigger friends or their nigger wives is a mistake, don't do it

Nobody is accusing anybody of being misogynist

No?

as women Cocorosie are dismissed because their visual presentation frustrates many male writers’ abilities to sexualize them ... don’t be Aryan muscle-boys...

I do apologise for tarring all the writers with a single brush. Rereading, there are many for whom my criticisms don't apply at all. I was blinded by the other bullshit.

don't really get where racism angle figures into this either - re: the original article is it really so surprising some pretentious twee indie folkie girl would feel out of place/threatened/uncomfortable in yr average hip hop club...?

actively seeking out the one where they talk about how Jesus doesn't love their nigger friends or their nigger wives is a mistake, don't do it

hahaha um oh okay NOW I get it

actively seeking out the one where they talk about how Jesus doesn't love their nigger friends or their nigger wives is a mistake, don't do it

o_O daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaang

aside from the shitty music and racism this makes me sad because I love yoko ono

yeah i like a lot of the people giving approving quotes there! whaddyagonnado

this reminds me a little of the time I had to ignore the many awesome directors backing up Polanski (though obv the offenses are not in any way comparable)

lol nice caveat there

the full lyrics to that song:

Jesus loves me
But not my wife
Not my nigger friends
Or their nigger lives
But jesus loves me
Dat for sure
'Cause the bible tell me so

Read your bible good and well
Don't forget about that apple spell
Don't fall in the wishing well
Wishing for heaven and gettin' hell
Wash behind your ears don't smell
Cover them freckles don't ask don't tell
Kiss your papa but not too long
Hold his hand
Don't do no wrong

Jesus loves me
But not my wife
Not my nigger friends
Or their nigger lives
But jesus loves me
Dat for sure
'Cause the bible tell me so

Hush don't cry
Dry them tears
Time'll wash away all them years
Scar or a bruise
Pick and choose
When you're all grown up
You'll have the blues
Life'll give you that wedding ring
Fancy cars and diamond things
You best believe in Jesus' way
And never fall asleep forgetting to pray

Jesus loves me
But not my wife
Not my nigger friends
Or their nigger lives
But jesus loves me
Dat for sure
'Cause the bible tell me so

'Cause the bible tell me so

what it's supposed to be: A satirical take on the contradictory nature of religious values

why it fails: Because it uses the word "nigger" for no reason other than a hateful evocation of black people, yet uses much more restrained/sensitive verbiage to talk about issues surrounding the arbitrariness of some bible rules as well as the sexism and homophobia, it explicitly singles out black people for disdain and derision in a manner wholly out of keeping with the rest of the song, completely undercutting any meaningful message it's supposed to have with a very strong, palpable undercurrent of "btw if you are black, fuck off; we don't want you listening to our music".

This is the type of hamfisted, unthinking point-making you do when you are either a sheltered kid who has heard of racism but have never actually experienced it or a self-absorbed person who lacks the empathy necessary to translate your experience into terms that make the experience relatable rather than repellent and offensive to others who have gone through similar experiences. Had there been parity in language with references to "faggots" and "bitches", the point of view would have been better defined and the narrative less confused; as it stands, you have a song by some people who hate religion and black people but only realize that they hate religion.

holy shit @ lyrics

just reading it (not listening to it) the use of "nigger" reads like a poor trolling attempt. Like ho-hum here's a song about that wacky Jesus, oh by the way, RACISM!

*yawn*

it seems to me like this: like a bunch of kids at a nice college who are so moved and disgusted by the history of racial violence in this country, and outraged that the rest of the student body doesn't really think about it, that they do up one of them in blackface and stage a mock lynching in the quad. and then they don't even get why everyone would be mad at them for pulling a stunt like that, and can barely explain why they did it.

now, set it to music (no beats tho)

(For similar examples, see also: The The - "The Violence of Truth" and Christian Death - "Romeo's Distress")

I like their music a lot, generally (first two albums a lot less than the second two), am really bummed out by their "provocative" race stuff but I listen to a lot of heavy metal bands who hold noxious beliefs & express them (albeit in more heavily coded language) & have sorta been doing the disconnect-from-shit-that-offends-me dance with music all my life -- I'm a pretty easily offended guy, actually, but I mean...I listen to goregrind. I don't think goregrind is making any kind of critical commentary on the behavior it details. I think it's pretty offensive, if I really think about it, but I also enjoy it.

basically CR is a band I like but with some big reservations & I can 100% imagine myself hating them, if I didn't respond so heavily to the last two albums - if I were building a case for them, I'd say listen to "Rainbowarriors," "Raphael," "Werewolf," "Smokey Taboo," "Undertaker," and "The Moon Asked the Crow" -- but I wouldn't build a case for them, because the sounds they make & especially Bianca's vocal persona/delivery are either going to register with you or not.

xpost yeah ha basically the first time I had to go "hey, fuck you, band making music I like, what the fuck is wrong with your juvenile ass" was "Romeo's Distress"

I can't work out who's worse; CocoRosie, Two Gallants or Country Teasers :-(

While googling, the first song of theirs I encountered was "Rainbowarriors" and I was like "why are people objecting so heavily to these girls, this is kind of pretty if not entirely my thing"

Then I googled "cocorosie racism" and discovered "Jesus Loves Me" and really at this point I need to stop writing before I just lose it.

aero i have a hard time believing you hated joanna newsom so much, if you like CR! it's like the same thing only the songs are a third as long and have a quarter as much going on

country teasers are pretty awesome

Just to get a sense of where I'm coming from, if ever I encounter Robert Smith doing some shit like "Jesus Loves Me", I will be throwing away and deleting a lot of music I've built up over the past 23 years.

i can believe this thread has me digging up christian death youtubes

it's like the same thing only the songs are a third as long and have a quarter as much going on

yeah this is def of a piece with Newsom, no?