33 1/3 Series of books

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I don't get that. Not that you would like something "creative" Michaelangelo that's cool but why the author would tie it to an album in the first place? Why not write a freestanding novella or memoir or whatever? What about readers who want something linear?

m coleman (lovebug starski), Saturday, 16 September 2006 19:13 (seventeen years ago) link

at some point, the editor(s) taste is reflected in album selection, determining writers, etc. so it's all pretty subjective in terms of why x instead of y or I suppose why one album is dealt w/factually and starightforwardly while another isn't.

m coleman (lovebug starski), Saturday, 16 September 2006 19:25 (seventeen years ago) link

I haven't read these but it does seem like there's a bit of a slacker aesthetic to the series in general - you know, that it's not about sort of writing *real books* but instead just these little things. Curious how much the slacker context infects the content.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 16 September 2006 19:44 (seventeen years ago) link

Re. slacker context: rock criticism stuck in the nineties.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 16 September 2006 19:49 (seventeen years ago) link

haha, the best is dom's review of some record where he talks about almost picking up a middle aged floozy in a pub instead of the music. can't top that 33 1/3!

timmy tannin (pompous), Saturday, 16 September 2006 20:08 (seventeen years ago) link

There's hardly a shortage of linear writing about albums available, and anyway I'm talking about maybe two books out of 34. (Dusty in Memphis primarily.)

"Slacker aesthetic"--huh?

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Saturday, 16 September 2006 20:27 (seventeen years ago) link

If 33 1/3 want a full length version of that "Meds" review, they need to hit me up ASAP.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 16 September 2006 20:31 (seventeen years ago) link

I just do not see the cultural heft to these albums such that entire books need to be devoted to them. The series strikes me as having an unambitious context in general.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 16 September 2006 20:37 (seventeen years ago) link

Tim's proposal to write up Living in the Material World was sadly rejected.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Saturday, 16 September 2006 20:41 (seventeen years ago) link

You know that's my least favorite George Harrison album. (I did not propose a book for this series.)

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 16 September 2006 20:42 (seventeen years ago) link

hahahahaha "cultural heft"

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Saturday, 16 September 2006 21:35 (seventeen years ago) link

rosie o'donnell really has taken the view hostage.

scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 16 September 2006 21:39 (seventeen years ago) link

the Armed Forces, Live at the Apollo, and OK Computer ones (to leave it at the ones published so far) are very ambitious. maybe you should actually look at a couple of them sometime, Tim.

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Saturday, 16 September 2006 21:45 (seventeen years ago) link

haha, the best is dom's review of some record where he talks about almost picking up a middle aged floozy in a pub instead of the music. can't top that 33 1/3!

John COUGAR mellencamp

Haikunym (Haikunym), Saturday, 16 September 2006 21:45 (seventeen years ago) link

I mean, all these albums are kinda garbagey, really - that's part of the appeal of rock and roll, pop music, etc. in its glory. Collapses distinctions between the trivial and the awesome and all that. But here's this series as another example of yet more stodgy canonizing goin' on. I don't mean any of this as a reflection on any of the books in particular - I ain't read 'em - but, yes, I find the idea for the series to be dull and unambitious - a step above a desert island disc thang where it's supposed to be like Greil Marcus with less intellectual rigor or something.

xposts - I've seen a few in stores and again reiterating: not meant as a reflection on anyone's work in particular. just about the idea for the series in general.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 16 September 2006 21:57 (seventeen years ago) link

how do you know there is less intellectual rigor if you haven't read any!!

scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:00 (seventeen years ago) link

i think it's a good idea for a series. i like rekkerds.

scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:01 (seventeen years ago) link

how many great-movies books do people make these (bullshit) complaints about, I wonder?

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:02 (seventeen years ago) link

Any essay praising Wes Anderson, actually.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:02 (seventeen years ago) link

and I'm sorry, Tim, but whether you're talking about anyone's work in particular or not, the point is, here you are, a guy who talks about music all day long on the internet, sneering at a series of books that do the same as "dull and unambitious." kinda pot-meets-kettle, isn't it? (this would be true of any ILM regular doing the same thing, obv.)

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:03 (seventeen years ago) link

"I'll sit and talk about crappy psych-rock with people I've never met for hours, but someone publishing a books series based on the same impulse? Dude, that is beyond the pale."

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:06 (seventeen years ago) link

dude, the only crappy psych-rock album theyve published a 33 1/3 about so far is entroducing

katie quirk (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:07 (seventeen years ago) link

hahahahaha

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:11 (seventeen years ago) link

(And I've always argued it's goth -- your least favorite genre!)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:12 (seventeen years ago) link

oof. yeah.

katie quirk (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:13 (seventeen years ago) link

hey are there any METAL 33 1/3's yet?

katie quirk (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:13 (seventeen years ago) link

Metal Box?

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:14 (seventeen years ago) link

Leather Boys hits the streets sometime in the future.

I guarantee 100% hyperballed-to-the-wall reading akshun.

the dow nut industrial average dead joe mama besser (donut), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:24 (seventeen years ago) link

"Chapter 1: The Part I Played in the Mascara Masquerade"

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:27 (seventeen years ago) link

how do you know there is less intellectual rigor if you haven't read any!!

for about the fourth time, talking about the general impression of what the idea for the series was. haven't been inspired to read any of 'em yet but i'll be sure to let you guys know.

here you are, a guy who talks about music all day long on the internet, sneering at a series of books that do the same as "dull and unambitious." kinda pot-meets-kettle, isn't it?

no actually spent four years recently working just about every single night while in grad school then working taking care of young child etc. on m.a. thesis on the aesthetics of late '60s psych - about a year and a half of just listening and taking notes, seven months of organizing 400+ pages of notes producing roughly 180 page document actually discussing content of about 400 songs from the period all organized around central theme (psychedelic music as late manifestation of aesthetics associated with surrealism) but whatevs, dude.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:27 (seventeen years ago) link

Warning: no cultural heft.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:31 (seventeen years ago) link

yes let's defensively turn that into a silly meme disregarding my larger point.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:36 (seventeen years ago) link

sneering at a series of books that do the same as "dull and unambitious."

this is absurd, too. any criticism or questioning when it's from the other side is obviously sneering isn't it, michaelangelo?

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:40 (seventeen years ago) link

Tim, I work on a regular basis with grad students in a similar situation to you, married with kids, huge projects, dealing with all sorts of stuff eating up their time. And I can say, quite frankly, that if I was talking with one of them and they used being as an excuse for dismissing someone's work out of hand as being 'dull and unambitious' without having read it, I'd think they were full of it.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:41 (seventeen years ago) link

ok for fifth time now, I AM NOT DISMISSING ANYONE'S WORK. i thought the idea for the series was dull. if anyone produced a truly great book in the context then yay.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:45 (seventeen years ago) link

if you could stop dismissing everyone's work, that would be cool, too

RoxyMuzak© (roxymuzak), Saturday, 16 September 2006 22:47 (seventeen years ago) link

http://www.mp3.com.au/img/label/Hefty%20Records_RESIZED.jpg

timmy tannin (pompous), Saturday, 16 September 2006 23:30 (seventeen years ago) link

ooh, DRAMA. (this is juicy).

Wrinklepossum's Awesome Blossom (Wrinklepaws), Saturday, 16 September 2006 23:57 (seventeen years ago) link

I just thought it was strange, and inconsistent, to have a series of short books dedicated to a very specific subject and wind up with some of them not being about the subject at all!

An anthology like Stranded ismore about the writers and their choices where the 33 1/3 series just by looking at the format is nominally about the albums. Maybe the pay is so low for 33 1/3 and you don't get royalities so you basically can write whatever you want ;-) But I like listening to albums way more than reading about em so take this with an extra shaker of salt.

m coleman (lovebug starski), Sunday, 17 September 2006 01:09 (seventeen years ago) link

"I just thought it was strange, and inconsistent, to have a series of short books dedicated to a very specific subject and wind up with some of them not being about the subject at all!"

why so strange!? there are so many ways to approach a subject.

scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 17 September 2006 01:32 (seventeen years ago) link

I mean, all these albums are kinda garbagey, really

I feel bad about saying this ;'-(

I just think there's an inherent trashiness to pop music and it's there regardless of how massive something ends up being. So that's a part of why canonizing in pop music literature (and certainly this book series is hardly the worst offender) feels stodgy to me. Naturally, the conservatism of a lot of canonizing in the literature is the most annoying part.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 17 September 2006 02:21 (seventeen years ago) link

x-post

maybe I'm being too literal-minded here, or just playing armchair editor again. but I sense a big disconnect between the tight editorial focus of the series overall and the apparently discursive and/or digressive approach taken by some writers. and I'm not saying those individual books don't work, hey I haven't read em either, I'm trying to make a bigger point about rock criticism or music writing or whatever you want to call it (saddle up hobby horse). After 25 plus years of reading (and writing) this stuff I've decided the Lester Bangs and Greil Marcus style/tradition of "ambitious" or adventurous music writing is exhausted, a dead end that stops writers from developing and frightens off many smart readers.

maybe this is a product of being a music critic for many years while remaining kinda ignorant about music...not that I ever seriously wanted to be a guitar player more than a good writer...it's more like if I read a book about one of my fave albums I'd want to learn about the songwriting, recording, the musicians' experience etc.

of course Scott's right, there are many ways to address a subject, but I think a lot of pop music writing ignores its subject at times.

can you imagine buying a book about the movie Carrie and then reading not about Brian DePalma but the author's own prom nightmare?

m coleman (lovebug starski), Sunday, 17 September 2006 11:19 (seventeen years ago) link

But come on you dudes, books that like 'explain' all the music on yr fave rave disc for ya are like SOOOOOO NOT ROCK AN ROLL, you should just go with the flo like that waitress Alice

Haikunym (Haikunym), Sunday, 17 September 2006 12:32 (seventeen years ago) link

Boy, albums like Ys and Hissing Fauna, Are You the Destroyer hitting me at the same time I'm talking about garbagey-ness as inherent in pop music and questioning Matos' comparison of books about movies or books about books to books about "pop music" albums. I take it all back, o my brothers and sisters!

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 17 September 2006 19:22 (seventeen years ago) link

Woke up feeling bad about all this so I apologize for the ugliness. We all have our perspectives on the state of pop music criticism and really all I was saying was that I wasn't crazy about the idea for this series.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 19 September 2006 15:31 (seventeen years ago) link

Fair nuff...

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 19 September 2006 15:34 (seventeen years ago) link

Tim, I didn't think you were attacking anyone at all. I just thought it odd that you found the cast of the thing unambitious; if anything, it's a blank slate--the level of ambition for each book depends on what the writers bring to it. Signals cross sometimes; it's fine.

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Tuesday, 19 September 2006 15:41 (seventeen years ago) link

Did some research on this series, in light of some of the comments here - based on the 5 books I've read so far (Velvets, Kinks, Beastie Boys, James Brown, Led Zeppelin), and (admittedly not always believable) customer/other reviews on amazon.com and a few other bits of Google-info Don't know if any one will find this useful, but whatever!

Kinks Village Green - very on-message, a bit of cultural background
Unknown Pleasures - more a potted history of JD than about the album
Murmur - a combination of recording history and interpretation, very highly regarded by some
Marquee Moon - was this ever even published??
Meat is Murder - "fiction", not about the album at all
Aeroplane Over the Sea - focused, apparently inspirational to some!
Velvets and Nico - about the album, writing sometimes clumsy
Let It Be (Beatles) - totally on-message, recording sessions, etc
OK Computer - somewhat dry, musicological, academic, mostly disliked
Forever Changes - perhaps pretentious, mostly lyrical analysis
Piper at the Gates - focused, some interviews, possibly a bit dull
Harvest - a straight telling of the album's creation
Exile on Main St. - good, vivid, a few personal anecdotes from Buffalo Tom singer
Pet Sounds - focused, but a bit too personal/emotion-based for some
Endtroducing - almost all one long interview with Josh Davis
Electric Ladyland - focused, good on guitars, nothing very new
Music from Big Pink - a novella about a drug dealer who hangs out with The Band
Let It Be (Replacements) - a short memoir by the dude from the Decembrists, not about the album at all
Kick Out the Jams - some love this, some find it boring, but it seems like a straight history of the MC5's beginnings
Led Zep IV - pretentious, overanalytical, and awesome!
Low - focused, historical, very strong
Grace - I can't tell! It's either really good or very bad.
Dusty in Memphis - random, tangential, about the South - both loved and hated
Sign Of the Times - partly autobiographical, but mostly about the album itself, and that part of Prince's career
Paul's Boutique - very sharp, very smart, all about the making of the album
Ramones - very good on punk history and the album itself
Doolittle - lots of interviews with Frank Black, journalistic, good on lyrics and surreaslism
Born in the USA - not sure about this one - seems to have been ignored by most people
Armed Forces - an A-Z of entries, very focused but too dry for some
Abba Gold - basically a potted history of Abba themselves - weird
Live at the Apollo - very cool retelling of James Brown's live show, interspersed with some stuff about the Cuban Missle Crisis, etc
Aqualung - written by a British professor; no idea
There's a Riot Goin' On - solid, about the album, and a little creative
The Stone Roses - not sure: pretty straightforward analysis, I think.

meritocracy (spencerman), Tuesday, 19 September 2006 16:45 (seventeen years ago) link

I really want to There's A Riot Goin' On one.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 19 September 2006 16:48 (seventeen years ago) link

i want to see some albums written about that didn't come from every top 50 list ever : (

gear (gear), Tuesday, 19 September 2006 16:53 (seventeen years ago) link


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