I think they come from different vantages at adolescence. Apatow and crew come from an adult's perspective and asks us to remember high school, whereas Hughes comes from a middle-schooler's perspective and asks us to fantasize about high school.
― kenan, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:08 (sixteen years ago) link
there is definitely more of a fantasy element to Hughes' conception of high school - goes hand-in-hand with the simplified character archetypes ("the burnout, the geek, the jock, the princess, the weirdo" etc)
― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:10 (sixteen years ago) link
Keenan OTM. There's a fantasy element in Hughes, but it seems much more targeted at kids. Apatow's stuff seems targeted at adults.
― Bob Standard, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:11 (sixteen years ago) link
comparing F&G to the Wonder Years is woefully unfair - Wonder Years was completely hobbled by its shitty voice-over and perpetual "I knew things would never be the same again" conclusions
― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:14 (sixteen years ago) link
But that's completely fair. It's part of the show.
― humansuit, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:15 (sixteen years ago) link
just like the crappy half-hour sitcom formula writing and completely loathsome lead actor
― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:15 (sixteen years ago) link
I mean Freaks and Geeks NEVER did that "oh the rose-colored glasses of nostalgia" shit
― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:16 (sixteen years ago) link
http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Events/5038/JohnFranci_Cohen_9856648_400.jpg?
― and what, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:17 (sixteen years ago) link
Yeah me too.
― humansuit, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:17 (sixteen years ago) link
I really like this.
― jaymc, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:18 (sixteen years ago) link
Maybe in 20 years I'll have enough perspective to see Apatow's movies as timebound relics, but right now, they seem perfectly in synch with the moment. Thus smart, knowing. And that's just how the JH movies seemed in the 80s.
No Ferris Bueller, no It's Garry Shandling's Show.
― Eazy, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:19 (sixteen years ago) link
well having just seen a bit of a Wonder Years episode last night let me give you an example - Kevin's gazing wistfully at his old playground. He sees three kids that look just like Paul and Winnie and him playing happily. Voiceover muses to himself how "things had changed, and they would never be the same again" - cut to him getting picked up by his hot teacher in her VW bug.
F&G never did any of this "oh my youth, where has it gone, I was so innocent then" kind of framing - it is much more conflicted about adolescence and none of the characters are ever given over to, or put in the service of, such nauseating faux-nostalgia. I defy anyone to name me a single episode where the main characters are wistfully depicted as innocent and happy.
x-post
― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:21 (sixteen years ago) link
ah, now I see what you mean by 'unfair' - Wonder is totally outclassed. You'd be right.
― humansuit, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:23 (sixteen years ago) link
being unfunny & depressing = greatness
― and what, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:23 (sixteen years ago) link
Kevin never had to run naked through the school. He never really learned what life is all about.
― kenan, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:24 (sixteen years ago) link
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:Z8K3FcXJVGBCfM:http://volcanocom.com/redskelton-gallerycom/ushop/images/IT71_CVisioneerDocumentsSadWhtFCln.jpg comedy comes from pain ethan
― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:25 (sixteen years ago) link
and_what I'm beginning to see that you simply don't like life.
― humansuit, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:25 (sixteen years ago) link
TS: "The Wonder Years" vs "Doogie Howser, MD"
― HI DERE, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:26 (sixteen years ago) link
does that include the pain of me having to watch ben stiller mug through his annoying self-help character on freaks & geeks?
― and what, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:26 (sixteen years ago) link
Apatow and crew come from an adult's perspective and asks us to remember high school, whereas Hughes comes from a middle-schooler's perspective and asks us to fantasize about high school.
pls
― gabbneb, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:26 (sixteen years ago) link
Doogie. re Wonder: Shit was meaningful in the 60s. I get it. Get Cancer.
― humansuit, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:27 (sixteen years ago) link
who wouldve thought a bunch of dudes who were young in the 80s would like a show about being young in the 80s more than being young in the 60s
― and what, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:28 (sixteen years ago) link
"cancer" is the new "pwned"
― kenan, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:28 (sixteen years ago) link
Kenan - don't steal that from me. I'm living in a cardboard box and I need my own internet meme to feed my kids. Get Cancer.
― humansuit, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:29 (sixteen years ago) link
I was like 1 year old when Freaks and Geeks was supposed to have taken place.
― jaymc, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:31 (sixteen years ago) link
Seth Rogen, well-informed adult, recommends 10 bourbon and oj's to a sick David Letterman - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bG6nMfWkvI4&NR=1
― gabbneb, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:31 (sixteen years ago) link
I never actually saw "Freaks and Geeks" because the ad campaigns made it seem like the new standard bearer of the self-satisfied Joss Whedon template of storytelling without any of the fantasy elements that make the Whedon stories bearable/enjoyable.
― HI DERE, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:31 (sixteen years ago) link
F&G takes place in 1980 (I was all of 7 years old). High school was '87-'91 for me, and trust me no one was driving around listening to Alice Cooper and Cheap Trick.
― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:31 (sixteen years ago) link
I think Harold And Kumar should have ended with Doogie coming home, going upstairs, and typing a nice little journal entry on what he did that day and what he learned.
― kenan, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:32 (sixteen years ago) link
Actually I haven't seen any Apatow movies either, now that I think about it. "Superbad" is the first one that I've really, REALLY wanted to see.
― HI DERE, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:32 (sixteen years ago) link
Ben Stiller played a Secret Service agent. Did you actually see this show?
― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:33 (sixteen years ago) link
lol, xxp
― gabbneb, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:33 (sixteen years ago) link
I was one in 1980 but shit was meaningful then.
― humansuit, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:33 (sixteen years ago) link
uncle buck is great!
ferris is a smarmy asshole--that's why the movie is so fun. we get to identify with a smarmy asshole...it's cathartic. no one is supposed to go out and BE LIKE ferris.
― ryan, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:34 (sixteen years ago) link
Thank you ryan. See the rest of you? You know what I'm going to say.
― humansuit, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:34 (sixteen years ago) link
i mean, film morality != real world morality.
― ryan, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:35 (sixteen years ago) link
High school was '87-'91 for me, and trust me no one was driving around listening to Alice Cooper and Cheap Trick.
1988: Cheap Trick, Lap of Luxury 1989: Alice Cooper, Trash
Both on endless repeat in my high school ("The Flame", "Poison")
ryan otm re: Ferris Bueller
― HI DERE, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:37 (sixteen years ago) link
well okay nobody I knew
― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:39 (sixteen years ago) link
you never watched mtv, apparently
― gabbneb, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:39 (sixteen years ago) link
that's true, I didn't have MTV. When I did see it we watched Yo! MTV Raps and 120 Minutes.
― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:41 (sixteen years ago) link
ferris bueller's the one i like/relate to most because i pretended to be sick for like 40% of my entire school career
― latebloomer, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:43 (sixteen years ago) link
I didn't have MTV, either; I had the entire hesher nation infesting my high school like roaches.
― HI DERE, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:44 (sixteen years ago) link
See, now that high school nostalgia movie I would watch.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:45 (sixteen years ago) link
(In that the Dan-equivalent character at the end kills them all or something equally satisfying.)
Hahaha I was starting to worry about you!
(Also you've kind of described "Massacre at Central High".)
― HI DERE, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:50 (sixteen years ago) link
Massacre at Central High is a GREAT very strange and creepy movie
― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:51 (sixteen years ago) link
wish I could find a decent copy of it, the one I saw was a really badly deteriorating VHS copy
― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:52 (sixteen years ago) link
I saw that movie around age 8 and it fucked me up for WEEKS.
― HI DERE, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:52 (sixteen years ago) link
so are we done here? sounds like the winner is Apatow by a wide margin... maybe I shoulda made this a poll...
― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 22 August 2007 16:03 (sixteen years ago) link
-- HI DERE, Tuesday, August 21, 2007 10:44 PM (Yesterday)
TRU DAT.
― John Justen, Wednesday, 22 August 2007 16:28 (sixteen years ago) link