What is BLACK music? What is WHITE music?

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000009SY.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

isn't it just as simple (no it isn't at all but it is most certainly the starting point in an argument like this) as the division of rhythmical and melodical music?

Obviously, Gabba or trance (or to a far lesser degree techno due to origin) is white because its brain-numbingly repetive and monotonous and is based on melodies rather than the intricacies of rhythm. Jungle on the other hand is most obviously black, because it is based on the said rhytmical complexities

The same with punk/metal etc and ska/reggae/ etc. There are many exceptions of course (Bad Brains, white Junglists et al)

This is the same historically, what with classical orchestral music being completely devoid of rhythm and early black American music being rhythmically based. It is impossible and ridiculous to say that this applies concretely, i mean, melody in blues and even in Davis' electro were extremely important factors, but the rhythmical edge is still outstanding in the presence of, say, Kraftwerk's simple syncopation and heavy melodical feeling. In my opinion at least, the usage of technology and influence has nothing to do with whether or not it can be classified as 'black' or 'white' music.
This polarization, like all polarizations, is not absolute. The groundings of whether any given music is black or white can never fully be determined, but there are some that are just too damn obvious, such as the aforementioned examples. In relation to most music, its pretty stupid classifying 'white' of 'black' anyway, unless of course, you feel like laying down some more racial segregation in music partition so as to further bridge the gap.

how can you say black music has no melody? even the blues scale is based on (guess what) a sequence of notes put together to make a melody

and where do latin, arabic and asian musics (all highly rhythmic and melodic) fit into this whole idea?

that's why upthread i said such blatantly stereotypical and stupid things.
b-b-but black music is more rhythmic because black people sit out in the jungle banging on their drums
white music is much better because it's all complex with it's harmony and melody and shit

!!!!!!!!

not having a beat /= not having a rhythm!

Isn't it a valid point to mention that the music which most people assume is 'black music' - and most people think of hip-hop and R&B here - actually contains too many non-black practitioners for that label to make much sense? You can't look at Eminem, Justin, Princess Superstar, J-Lo seriously and say they make black music.

I'm with the Lex here, this comment is the single most stupid thing I've ever seen on ILX.
Have you ever heard _any_ clasical music ever?

I think the fact that Zappa was an Italian-American is very interesting - even more interesting is the fact that he never really referenced it in his work

You'd think, but I quite often whistle thrash metal to myself so if he can hum u some gabba I'll let him off that one.

As for the classical, can anyone identify this from the ryhthm alone?

Da, da, da, daaaa!

Roland Kirk had a theory about jazz & rock music, that jazz was the rhythmic and spiritual musical instincts of African-descended Americans coming into contact with the scales, modes, motifs and whatnot of European classical music, and that rock music was those same emphasis-on-harmony-and-melody instincts of Euro/Anglo-descended Americans integrating these new-to-them rhythmic-to-the-point-of-sexual elements the African-descended folks brought to this continent with them.

I guess what I'm saying is that, although yes the terms are very appropriate in relation to the communities in which the style was discovered, it's not like white/black music styles have grown entirely independent of each other. I think there's been a great deal more cross-cultural influence in music (esp. American music) than most people give credit for.

Da, da, da, daaaa!

Beethoven Symphony #5.

-- Dan Perry (djperr...), September 23rd, 2003.

Where do I send your prize?

(It's a conductor's baton, for dictating the rhythm (etc) made from chocolate)

As for the classical, can anyone identify this from the ryhthm alone?

Da, da, da, daaaa!

Beethoven Symphony #5.

-- Dan Perry (djperr...) (webmail), September 23rd, 2003. (Dan Perry)

Correction Dan, I think you'll find that's a Trio song with an extr Daaa on it - your cd may be jumping, or a Russian may be expressing approval.

People are now back to discussing 'black' music again and still no one has definitively said what it is!

that was in my first post to this thread. I don't think it's a perfect definition, so if you disagree with it or think something needs to be added to it, I'm all ears. (eyes?)

peace

-- nickalicious (nza2342...), September 23rd, 2003.

Which means blues, rock and roll and hip hop aren't black, cause they come froom the USA where black people are a minority?

-- trife (...), September 19th, 2003 4:20 AM. (simon_tr) (link)

several years on this is still the most amusing thing i have ever read on ilx