― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 11 November 2004 18:43 (nineteen years ago) link
Yeah, sure. My only problem with the five St. Etiennes is that only one, maybe two of them deserve to be there. I agree with all the Pulp inclusions except "Do You Remember the First Time?," though not necessarily with the placements.
― The Good Dr. Bill (Andrew Unterberger), Thursday, 11 November 2004 18:51 (nineteen years ago) link
the list will still have bands show up with multiple songs, but it wont be so annoying when it happens i think.
fuck strategic voting.
― todd swiss (eliti), Thursday, 11 November 2004 19:26 (nineteen years ago) link
Yes, I saw that, but it's hard to take seriously when you undermine your supposed dropping of the accusation of racism by the parenthetical comment:
really, taking race out the equation (which is doing these people a favor they maybe don't deserve)
Anyway, I think comments like:
this is just rampant fanboyism, the sort of daftness that's not even bright enough to qualify as corny indie fuxxthought
are an insult to people like Martin (who apparently voted in ways you wouldn't approve of, but who likes quite a bit of 90s music you would approve of, and who you certainly aren't in a position to criticze as being less thoughtful than you, or whatever your wording means--I'm not even sure). But yes, that's a separate issue. But it's the sort of thing that makes me give in to the temptation to comment.
I don't know how you can seriously harp on my snarkishness when, in my view, you are one of the rudest old ILM (are you old ILM?--I don't even know) regulars, but I guess we all have our own slant on this thing. Maybe you are very charming in person.
BUT let this be remembered the next time anyone (eg. rockist scientist) snarks about ilm's "popist" tendencies
When have I "snarked" about ILM's popist tendencies? I can find one post of mine which does that, and I thought I was using "popist" in a pretty neutral way.
― Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Thursday, 11 November 2004 20:29 (nineteen years ago) link
― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 11 November 2004 20:31 (nineteen years ago) link
Todd, I'm not a strategic voter in the sense that I intentionally overrate songs so they'll get on the list, and I'm slightly mystified by people who do that, but I do like the idea of voting a diverse ballot and producing an overall diverse list. What rankles me about the St. Etienne or Pulp songs is less a matter of race or rockism and more a matter of, "Wow there were so many great singles that didn't make the list (or even the nominations ballot), it's a shame some artists had to take up so many slots." But I'm also a big fat hypocrite because I voted for three Stereolab albums, and I'm real curious to see what happens with that.
― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 11 November 2004 20:42 (nineteen years ago) link
― Shmool McShmool (shmuel), Thursday, 11 November 2004 20:58 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 11 November 2004 21:00 (nineteen years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 11 November 2004 21:11 (nineteen years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 11 November 2004 21:12 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 11 November 2004 21:13 (nineteen years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 11 November 2004 21:14 (nineteen years ago) link
At a distance this poll appears to resemble Tom's 90s list (which was hugely formative for me) - which also had a strong Saint Etienne and Pulp presence.
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 11 November 2004 21:41 (nineteen years ago) link
― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Thursday, 11 November 2004 21:42 (nineteen years ago) link
― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Thursday, 11 November 2004 21:45 (nineteen years ago) link
But, you know, I could just be trying to put a different spin on it.
(also, ffs, the fact that a lot of people on ilm like nineties brit indie does not make it a bastion of rockism, it makes it a bastion of corny indie fuxx0rism. rock-orientation is, after all, not automatically rockism. (this in brackets because, you know, just wanted to make objection known etc.))
― cis (cis), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:05 (nineteen years ago) link
― Riot Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:10 (nineteen years ago) link
― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:22 (nineteen years ago) link
― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:26 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:28 (nineteen years ago) link
1. Loveless2. OK Computer3. Different Class4-26 Radiohead albums, bootlegs and interview picture discs27. Neutral Milk Hotel -- In the Aeroplane Over the Sea28. Dr. Dre -- The Chronic29 - 48. Various albums produced by Dr. Dre49 - 100. Saint Etienne demo tapes
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:29 (nineteen years ago) link
Dream the fuck on.
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:32 (nineteen years ago) link
― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:33 (nineteen years ago) link
― Riot Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:35 (nineteen years ago) link
― daavid (daavid), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:37 (nineteen years ago) link
― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:39 (nineteen years ago) link
― Riot Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:40 (nineteen years ago) link
I don't accept that either. I think it is lazy fucking bullshit. Don't make stupid generalizations about what "everybody accepts" and then try to apply to people who think that 100% of a poll going to two bands (and as I said before ANY two bands, although yes obv I would be less irritated if I love the bands in question) is fucking stupid.
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:41 (nineteen years ago) link
― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:43 (nineteen years ago) link
-- MindInRewind (brune...), November 11th, 2004 1:43 PM. (later)
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:44 (nineteen years ago) link
Well yeah I didn't mean it is "accepted" but its hardly surprising or shocking, its is expected.
― daavid (daavid), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:45 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:47 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:48 (nineteen years ago) link
Would you say it is stupid if you truly believed those ten songs are among the best 100 songs of the '90s?
― daavid (daavid), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:52 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:53 (nineteen years ago) link
― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:55 (nineteen years ago) link
― daavid (daavid), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:58 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:58 (nineteen years ago) link
― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:59 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:01 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:02 (nineteen years ago) link
MOBB DEEP - "Shook Ones Pt 2"MOBB DEEP - "Shook Ones Pt 3"MOBB DEEP - "Shook Ones Pt 4"MOBB DEEP - "Shook Ones Pt 5"MOBB DEEP - "Shook Ones Pt 6"MOBB DEEP - "Shook Ones Pt 7"MOBB DEEP - "Shook Ones Pt 8"MOBB DEEP - "Shook Ones Pt 9"MOBB DEEP - "Shook Ones Pt 10"MOBB DEEP - "Shook Ones Pt 11"MOBB DEEP - "Shook Ones Pt 12"MOBB DEEP - "Shook Ones Pt 13"MOBB DEEP - "Shook Ones Pt 14"MOBB DEEP - "Shook Ones Pt 15"MOBB DEEP - "Shook Ones Pt 16"MOBB DEEP - "Shook Ones Pt 17"MOBB DEEP - "Shook Ones Pt 18"MOBB DEEP - "Shook Ones Pt 19"MOBB DEEP - "Shook Ones Pt 20"OMNI TRIO - "Renegade Snares"
― Riot Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:09 (nineteen years ago) link
I agree with this, but if you were to make a list of your favourite songs, scrificing your own taste for the sake of diversity is a huge dishonest mistake.
― daavid (daavid), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:10 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:13 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:15 (nineteen years ago) link
Omni Trio "Renegade Snares (Foul Play Remix)"
and
Omni Trio "Renegade Snares (Foul Play VIP Remix)"
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:16 (nineteen years ago) link
― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:20 (nineteen years ago) link
2) It results in lame stilted lists (like this one for example.)
3) Obviously these people exist (see list.)
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:22 (nineteen years ago) link