"Born to Run" by Bruce Springsteen -- who really enjoys this overproduced crappy glop?

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I'm really embarrassed to admit this but I was never sure what the second line means. I'm guessing "suicide machines" are motorcycles (or maybe beat-up old cars) but why would they be riding through mansions of glory on them? Is he using a bit of licence with "through" here, just saying that at night, they like to drive around rich neighbourhoods (near many of these mansions) and dream of escaping their own less-rich existence? That was what I always assumed but it never seemed clear to me. Or is it something more abstract than this? I suppose "suicide machines" could also be a reference to rides at the amusement park that he mentions later - this seems silly though. Everything else in the song makes perfect sense and is almost embarrassingly moving to me.

Sundar, Friday, 21 May 2010 23:30 (thirteen years ago) link

I just figured suicide machines were dangerous cars built to look good but that ran like shit. Like, riding in these cars is akin to committing suicide.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 21 May 2010 23:49 (thirteen years ago) link

I remember when this song was first a hit on FM radio. The discussion we are having now is eerily akin to the men (NOTE: I'm pretty sure the women left this thread a few years ago) were sitting around in 1975 discussing whether 'When The Swallows Come Back To Capistrano" by The Ink Spots (big hit, 1940) was overproduced glop. "...and you're scared and you're thinking that maybe we ain't that young anymore" xp Hi Anagram!

Fruitless and Pansy Free (Dr. Joseph A. Ofalt), Saturday, 22 May 2010 04:33 (thirteen years ago) link

He laid down some serious improvised Neil Young-ish guitar thundah on the intros to 'Because the Night' and 'Prove It All Night' as late as '78, but it was definitely the early band with Lopez & Sancious that was into the jamming.

ImprovSpirit, Sunday, 23 May 2010 03:13 (thirteen years ago) link

One of those situations where da croupier's complaints make perfect sense and I still love this stuff to death-- I can see why some wouldn't like it.

Mark, Sunday, 23 May 2010 03:56 (thirteen years ago) link

I really see nothing wrong with the overproduction. Wire and Bruce can coexist pretty peacefully, I think.

kelpolaris, Sunday, 23 May 2010 05:47 (thirteen years ago) link

The hugeness of it, all that emotion and abandon, that's what I love. I get that it sound overdone or bombastic or, I dunno, cliched or whatever, but dammit, it's a fun song. This song to me is like flying down the freeway & sticking my face out of the car window like a kid. It feels good.

VegemiteGrrrl, Sunday, 23 May 2010 06:26 (thirteen years ago) link

At what point does epic drama cross the line into bombast? Is opera bombastic? I would say that although successive live versions of "Born To Run" have crossed that line, the album version stays resolutely on the right side of it. As for "Thunder Road", to me that is as bombastic as Debussy.

anagram, Sunday, 23 May 2010 08:07 (thirteen years ago) link

amd of course Debussy is incredible. you're not against the music of Debussy are you?

Stormy Davis, Sunday, 23 May 2010 08:15 (thirteen years ago) link

i mean actually hearing 'Claire de Lune' for the first time was one of the most incredible experiences as a listener ever. up there with 'Born To Run', even

Stormy Davis, Sunday, 23 May 2010 08:17 (thirteen years ago) link

amd of course Debussy is incredible. you're not against the music of Debussy are you?

Not at all, I was just holding him up as someone who is like not at all bombastic and saying that to me "Thunder Road" has the same amount of bombast, i.e. none.

anagram, Sunday, 23 May 2010 09:06 (thirteen years ago) link

this recording makes Meat Loaf sound like fuckin' Wire. All those gloopy keyboards and honking saxes and overblown crescendos. It's like a motor-oil smeared wedding cake waiting to be toppled.

i think that's the point, and i think that's why this song is so wonderful

Worth waiting for the fannypunch at 4.02 (stevie), Sunday, 23 May 2010 10:25 (thirteen years ago) link

early bruce feels like west side story meets happy days for me

brilliant.

Alex in NYC, Sunday, 23 May 2010 12:30 (thirteen years ago) link

Meat Loaf is like Bruce without the restraint.

Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 23 May 2010 12:57 (thirteen years ago) link

The West Side Story comparison doesn't even sound like a dis to me.

Sundar, Sunday, 23 May 2010 13:21 (thirteen years ago) link

said it before, saying it now, and will say it again -- to a certain kind of person raised in the middle of New Jersey during the 80s, to never hear "born to run" ever ever ever again would not be a tragedy.

and all Springsteen up until tunnel of love has a "west side story" vibe to it.

keine Macht für dich mehr! (Eisbaer), Sunday, 23 May 2010 14:20 (thirteen years ago) link

anyway, "born to run" isn't the ONLY overproduced glob in Springsteen's catalog. i dunno if it's even the most egregious violator of this supposed sin anyway (maybe that honor goes to "born in the USA").

keine Macht für dich mehr! (Eisbaer), Sunday, 23 May 2010 17:21 (thirteen years ago) link

To be honest, I've never thought of "Born to Run" as overproduced so much as over-arranged, albeit thrillingly so.

Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 23 May 2010 19:31 (thirteen years ago) link

I would tend to agree where BITUSA is concerned. It strikes me as Springsteen's slickest, most calculatedly commercial record, so to the extent one acheives that end through heavy-handed production - well, there ya go. Much of this wasn't really Springsteen's idea [though he is where the buck stops, if you will], given that he hit Jon Landau with the demo tape of 'Dancing In the Dark' saying 'Here's your fuckin' single.' With BTR they were going for the Orbison/Spector orchestral thing and they got there, so I don't know if it was OVER produced or not. I guess its a matter of whether you like your tunes densely packed. Ironically, the last two studio records sound most like logical follow-ups to BTR, in terms of their SOUND, of anything else he's done since - almost as if he's been trying to avoid that sound for years.

ImprovSpirit, Monday, 24 May 2010 15:22 (thirteen years ago) link

finally watched that documentary that came with the "Born to Run" reissue a few years back. it's a good watch! they play some really hilarious alternate intros and outros with big string sections that will make you thank god it turned out the way it did. also a cool part about van zandt coming up with the horns part for 10th avenue freeze out.

Moreno, Monday, 24 May 2010 17:14 (thirteen years ago) link

BITUSA >>>>> Born to Run

Filmmaker, Author, Radio Host Stephen Baldwin (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 24 May 2010 17:16 (thirteen years ago) link

wait, Lord Sotosyn likes the album with the 80s gated drums better? Heavens! ;)

xxpost, yeah that is a good doc. That SVZ scene with the horns is great!

VegemiteGrrrl, Monday, 24 May 2010 17:37 (thirteen years ago) link

:-) '80s gated drums, and some of the most obvious pandering I can think of. BITUSA doesn't even touch BTR for me, though it has some terrific songs. I've always been a sucker for 'I'm Going Down' of all things, and 'No Surrender' & 'Bobbie Jean' give me chills as I boogie. Lots of the other things leave me cold plus the record as a whole hasn't aged as well as I'd hoped.

ImprovSpirit, Monday, 24 May 2010 17:41 (thirteen years ago) link

Steve is a horn-arrangin' mo-fo. He's done a lot of that for Southside Johnny's band(s) too.

ImprovSpirit, Monday, 24 May 2010 17:42 (thirteen years ago) link

Now, I don't consider "overproduced" as anything but a windmill, because I love stuff being slickly produced, but I reckon "Born In The USA" is a GREAT production, and by far the best produced of all Springsteen albums.

As far as "Born To Run" is considered, the problem isn't so much the level of production as the choice of sound. Sure there are a lot of great songs that do make it a great album, and I do understand what the sound is aiming at. The problem being, the Spectoresque wall of sound was largely obsolete already by the time stereo was becoming more important than mono in the late 60s. The wall of sound idea has never fitted with stereo sound, it was designed for mono and does really only work in mono.

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Monday, 24 May 2010 18:08 (thirteen years ago) link

:-) '80s gated drums, and some of the most obvious pandering I can think of. BITUSA doesn't even touch BTR for me, though it has some terrific songs. I've always been a sucker for 'I'm Going Down' of all things, and 'No Surrender' & 'Bobbie Jean' give me chills as I boogie. Lots of the other things leave me cold plus the record as a whole hasn't aged as well as I'd hoped.

"No Surrender" is the only song that does nothing for me on an album that's never stopped giving me pleasure. I know some people go to Springsteen for frills and bombast, but I'll take the focused pathos of "Darlington County" and "Downbound Train."

Not my favorite Springsteen though: it's still Tunnel of Love.

And, yeah, "I'm Goin' Down" is my favorite of the singles. Great oral sex metaphor too.

Filmmaker, Author, Radio Host Stephen Baldwin (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 24 May 2010 18:28 (thirteen years ago) link

I think it's a shame Springsteen rarely plays "I'm Going Down," and that when he does he can barely do it with a straight face. Then again, it's a ridiculously simple, repetitive song, so ...

Geir is sort of right, re: mono, but "Born to Run" (the album and the song) isn't exactly a showcase for stereo separation effects.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 24 May 2010 18:31 (thirteen years ago) link

Also, gated drums not that big of a deal on most of "BitUSA" (esp. compared to "Tunnel"), intro to the title track aside, and that's largely because that intro is so stark a simple snare crack wouldn't fill up enough space. The rest of that album is pretty much band-in-a-room, which is one of many reasons I'm always puzzled by stories of Bruce's studio perfectionism. Gary Katz he is not.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 24 May 2010 18:47 (thirteen years ago) link

@ Alfred: Oh my. I had forgotten about "Downbound Train." I love that one.

"Darlington County" always struck me as something that might've been left off of a John Fogerty LP, but it is a bit of good fun.

@ Josh: I'm not hearing much panning on BTR either, which may at least partially nullify the (well stated) monophonic argument. Then again I'm sure that the recording process was much different during the days of mono, thereby changing things on the front-end as well as the ultimate sound reproduction.

ImprovSpirit, Monday, 24 May 2010 19:27 (thirteen years ago) link

"Darlington County" always struck me as something that might've been left off of a John Fogerty LP

But then, I would say that CCR were one of the most important influences on Springsteen when he perfected his style.

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Monday, 24 May 2010 22:46 (thirteen years ago) link

Yes, this is true. The CCR influence seems to have really kicked in around the time of The River.

I might counter with the notion that CCR & John Fogerty (solo) are vastly different from one another in terms of quality, which is why I chose to cite Fogerty. "Center Field" is no "Who'll Stop the Rain," to give an over-simplified example.

ImprovSpirit, Tuesday, 25 May 2010 14:55 (thirteen years ago) link

lol @ ppl in 2010 calling 80s production values 'overproduced'

its like why GROCERY BAG and not saddam? (deej), Wednesday, 26 May 2010 00:54 (thirteen years ago) link

???

hope this helps (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 26 May 2010 01:03 (thirteen years ago) link

lol @ ppl in 2010 calling 80s production values 'overproduced'

i DID say that it was "a supposed sin," didn't i?

:-)

Aspergers Makes My Pee Smell Funny (Eisbaer), Friday, 28 May 2010 16:06 (thirteen years ago) link

one year passes...

ripping
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAvolRT3sX4

bear, bear, bear, Sunday, 20 May 2012 11:44 (eleven years ago) link

Nice. That one is still in his live set.

curmudgeon, Sunday, 20 May 2012 19:13 (eleven years ago) link

one year passes...

The problem is not the production. The problem is Bruce's awful mumbly singing style. you hear the song with that rockin' drum intro "DUGGA-DUGGA DUHHHHHHHHHHH...." and you hear that classic guitar riff and the glockenspiel comes in and the guitars are rocking and it crescendoes and you think "Alright! Here we go, it's time to rock!"... and then Bruce's voice comes in "mmrrghhyears mmrrf fff out on the streets uff runaway Amurrrican dreams." and it's like dude! Enunciate! How are we supposed to fantasize riding through mansions of glory and suicide machines when we can't understand what the hell you're saying?

Mr. Snrub, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 03:41 (ten years ago) link

Allan Clarke of the Hollies did this song much better before Bruce's version was even released:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M-Y1JqGwKM

Mr. Snrub, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 03:42 (ten years ago) link

bruce's mumbling is the best part for me. i don't think his Romanticism would be palatable if it wasn't blunted by the grizzled weight of experience. that kind of writing needs to be grounded in some way by melancholy.

Treeship, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 03:50 (ten years ago) link

That Clarke track, which I'd never heard, is fine, but it really splits the difference between Bruce and, dunno, Jackson Browne.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 03:55 (ten years ago) link

I think I've kind of always wanted Bruce Springsteen to sound more like Jackson Browne so I am digging this. Also reminding me again of the existence of the Hold Steady who did a pretty decent pastiche on "Stuck Between Stations."

Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 13:08 (ten years ago) link

Dude! Enunciate!

copter (waterface), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 13:19 (ten years ago) link

i always figured that mumbling thing was the product of severe underbite + not opening mouth to speak

Poliopolice, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 14:12 (ten years ago) link

Also, for a belter, Bruce back then was pretty shy. So maybe it was a form of modesty manifesting itself at the wrong time in the wrong song? He opens up his voice more as the song goes on, though.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 14:32 (ten years ago) link

I always figured that mumbling thing was the product of Dylan/Van Morrison emulation (and is really the major thing I DO like about "Born To Run.") Like, enunciation was not the thing that made Rolling Stones records rock.

New Authentic Everybootsy Collins (Dan Peterson), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 14:33 (ten years ago) link

Bruce back then was pretty shy

Think it's fair to say he's overcome it since

Bees Against Racism (Tom D.), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 14:50 (ten years ago) link

i like his bad vocals and mumbling on this song

dyl, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 18:35 (ten years ago) link

seven years pass...

Album is 45 years old today

(•̪●) (carne asada), Tuesday, 25 August 2020 23:25 (three years ago) link

I'm as old as it is, but it is better than I am.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 25 August 2020 23:27 (three years ago) link


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