This is totally more of a sex/class/musical culture issue than outright racism (although it's certainly a factor, but not the whole story).
― Worst song, played on ugliest guitar (fandango), Saturday, 5 November 2005 13:58 (eighteen years ago) link
― Worst song, played on ugliest guitar (fandango), Saturday, 5 November 2005 14:00 (eighteen years ago) link
― Worst song, played on ugliest guitar (fandango), Saturday, 5 November 2005 14:27 (eighteen years ago) link
― Cliffy (CliffLevingston), Saturday, 5 November 2005 15:22 (eighteen years ago) link
― nancyboy (nancyboy), Saturday, 5 November 2005 16:30 (eighteen years ago) link
This sounds like the worst thing
THe thread title is very vague, so newbies to this whole story are not to be blamed for missing it the first time, or not finding it via search..
but please read this, before fortifying another major deja vu thread.
― iDonut B4 x86 (donut), Saturday, 5 November 2005 16:43 (eighteen years ago) link
― iDonut B4 x86 (donut), Saturday, 5 November 2005 16:44 (eighteen years ago) link
I see that as a bit different. I haven't heard the song, but I don't know what context the word is in. To outright say any white artist who uses the n word is racist is a bit off.
The Brainwashed article is clearly writen by someone who was waiting for CocoRosie to slip up so he could say "SEE, I GAVE THEM A BAD REVIEW WHEN THE ALBUM CAME OUT! LOOKS LIKE BAD PEOPLE MAKE BAD MUSIC AND I WIN ON ALL COUNTS!"
He also brings up HUGE topics and barely deals with them. Don't bring up something like post modernism being the death knell of culture and only mention that you heard it from some neo-Marxist.
And yes, the "dumb rich white girl doesn't really get it" angle was downright offensive in its own way.
― Yes but the salad?, Saturday, 5 November 2005 19:01 (eighteen years ago) link
― Whiney G. Weingarten (whineyg), Saturday, 5 November 2005 19:07 (eighteen years ago) link
― grindingaxes, Saturday, 5 November 2005 19:53 (eighteen years ago) link
― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Saturday, 5 November 2005 23:40 (eighteen years ago) link
I'm presuming it has more to do with sexism than race btw...
http://www.rarebeatles.com/sheetmu/solo/ssmjnigg.jpg
― rogermexico (rogermexico), Saturday, 5 November 2005 23:46 (eighteen years ago) link
― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Saturday, 5 November 2005 23:57 (eighteen years ago) link
― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Sunday, 6 November 2005 00:10 (eighteen years ago) link
― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Sunday, 6 November 2005 00:21 (eighteen years ago) link
― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Sunday, 6 November 2005 00:22 (eighteen years ago) link
― Hurting (Hurting), Sunday, 6 November 2005 00:34 (eighteen years ago) link
― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Sunday, 6 November 2005 00:58 (eighteen years ago) link
― phil-two (phil-two), Sunday, 6 November 2005 01:57 (eighteen years ago) link
i am sure every city in america has a party like this. the one i used to go to was called "booty bassment". the only difference aside from the name was that they didn't hand out a discount for bringing a fucking bucket of fried chicken (tasteless!) and the DJs didn't act and talk like total asses.
― vahid (vahid), Sunday, 6 November 2005 02:12 (eighteen years ago) link
curmudgeon high on crack on the subject of whether brainwashed liking or not liking hiphop has fuck-all to do with anything
― Banana Nutrament (ghostface), Sunday, 6 November 2005 03:20 (eighteen years ago) link
― Schwip Schwap (schwip schwap), Sunday, 6 November 2005 03:37 (eighteen years ago) link
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Sunday, 6 November 2005 04:01 (eighteen years ago) link
― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 6 November 2005 04:52 (eighteen years ago) link
Banana Nutrament (straightup@gmail.com), November 6th, 2005.
That's not what I said, Banana.
― curmudgeon (Steve K), Sunday, 6 November 2005 16:29 (eighteen years ago) link
― Stuck to a Seat in the New Beverly (Bent Over at the Arclight), Sunday, 6 November 2005 17:58 (eighteen years ago) link
Wait, is that true?! I've never been the clubbing type (I don't think I've been to a dance club in the last 11 of my 29 years), so forgive me if I seem like a complete naif for being shocked at this. But I am. Men pull their dicks out on the dancefloor? Routinely?
I've been missing out! (kidding). That's fucking awful.
― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Sunday, 6 November 2005 18:15 (eighteen years ago) link
Also yes, there is something so gigantically stupid and bizarre about saying the hipsters at Williamsburg parties are going to become "captains of industry." They're in their late twenties -- if they were ever going to do something beyond live in crappy lofts and play in bands, chances are they'd have gotten started on it by now. The bulk of them will get office jobs like everyone else, and the rest will wind up making cabinets or repairing amplifiers or running record stores or becoming publicisists.
― nabiscothingy, Sunday, 6 November 2005 20:12 (eighteen years ago) link
shh nabisco you'll get in the way of the incipient class rage, how we gonna have a revolution without the class rage
― Banana Nutrament (ghostface), Sunday, 6 November 2005 21:20 (eighteen years ago) link
E.g. I don't think it's coincidence that constant anti-hipster sneering (usually Williamsburg-related) coincided with the explosion of internet culture-talk: suddenly you can have bloggers with no significant experience of a particular hipster spot or place or scene who can look at the pictures and read about it in record reviews and develop some bizarro fantasy of a whole neighborhood of trust-fund racists with Flock of Seagulls haircuts doing coke all night and feeling superior to everyone. All shit that might, in some extreme instances, kinda vaguely trend toward certain realities, but it's still totally bizarre. Weirdest of all: the way "Williamsburg" become shorthand for NYC hipsters has created this class of people elsewhere who actually think it's a full-neighborhood hipster-trash party, despite the reality that Williamsburg looks and feels not that incredibly different from any "hip" younger neighborhood, anywhere, from San Francisco to Chicago to Philadelphia. That "captains of industry" line in particular is just kinda like ... well, this person's understanding of what he/she is talking about is massively divorced from reality.
― nabiscothingy, Sunday, 6 November 2005 22:45 (eighteen years ago) link
How dare you say that about Costa Mesa.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 6 November 2005 22:48 (eighteen years ago) link
― nabiscothingy, Sunday, 6 November 2005 22:51 (eighteen years ago) link
I knew I'd be on the cutting edge of hip one day.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 6 November 2005 22:59 (eighteen years ago) link
― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Sunday, 6 November 2005 23:15 (eighteen years ago) link
― whatever, Sunday, 6 November 2005 23:30 (eighteen years ago) link
― eBay Item number: 7358717916 (mookie wilson), Sunday, 6 November 2005 23:43 (eighteen years ago) link
(And umm eBay, I'm not sure whether that's just a joke or whether you think you're making some kind of point; what I'm pointing out is that CocoRosie-as-band is actually about 50% black, and that they seem to think of their music as existing partly within a modern black-music idiom, and that their relationship with the notion of black culture is visibly way more complicated than any of these "I noticed her quoted in WaPo" articles bother examining.)
― nabiscothingy, Monday, 7 November 2005 00:24 (eighteen years ago) link
― Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Monday, 7 November 2005 00:24 (eighteen years ago) link
― gear (gear), Monday, 7 November 2005 00:28 (eighteen years ago) link
I mean, God, I can't fathom how young white people seem to think they're doing anyone any favors by saying they're so "awkard and square" but black people are cool -- all they're doing is switching the same old racist assumptions into some jacked-up compliment. (As if that hasn't been done before: "Black people have rhythm! And soul! Maybe they can come in through the back entrance and tap-dance for us!") All they're doing is reducing the whole notion of blackness to some rap-video caricature, one that still slots black people into a position of powerlessness (Ludacris can be "cool," but are you gonna elect him governor?) -- and, even worse, marginalizes and ignores millions and millions of everday "uncool" non-stereotype-fitting black people.
― nabiscothingy, Monday, 7 November 2005 00:34 (eighteen years ago) link
but also guys, it's "kill whitIE" --
― Nick Sylvester, Monday, 7 November 2005 00:35 (eighteen years ago) link
― nabiscothingy, Monday, 7 November 2005 00:38 (eighteen years ago) link
― sleeve (sleeve), Monday, 7 November 2005 00:58 (eighteen years ago) link
― Bobby Peru (Bobby Peru), Monday, 7 November 2005 01:05 (eighteen years ago) link
Yes indeed.
― moley (moley), Monday, 7 November 2005 02:21 (eighteen years ago) link
― whatever, Monday, 7 November 2005 02:40 (eighteen years ago) link
― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Monday, 7 November 2005 02:46 (eighteen years ago) link
as someone who likes cocorosie's music (am i the only one on this thread?) i enjoy the fact that they engage race at all. my reading of them is that they are not racist, and that most/all of the racial content in their music comes from fascinations with certain eras/ideas (of [re]appropriation). i feel that there is no harm in that, and that there's actually a fair amount of good in it, being that it has managed to provoke this kind of dialog. whether or not she goes to these kill whitey parties is kind of a moot point. every couple of years i might want to hear zztop at a bar or something, does that mean in order to be socially conscious that i should go to a biker bar and hear it in its native clime? or is it ok for me to go down to the hipster bar's cock rock night? i don't think there's anything wrong with feeling more comfortable among one's own peer group. i'm not advocating some kind of policy for social segregation/insularity, but i don't want to go to a biker bar. y'know?
― firstworldman (firstworldman), Monday, 7 November 2005 02:47 (eighteen years ago) link
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 7 November 2005 03:21 (eighteen years ago) link
(Ludacris can be "cool," but are you gonna elect him governor?)
well, he hates bill o'reilly -- that's a pretty good start!
― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 7 November 2005 03:33 (eighteen years ago) link
funny thing is I was onboard with the first paragraph despite the art blurb buzzwordiness of it all until they got to the surgery part and it was like here we go
― Left, Friday, 15 September 2023 19:51 (seven months ago) link
woof
― kirsten gilla band (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 15 September 2023 19:52 (seven months ago) link
hard to think of a less kaleidoscopic movement than terfism though
― Left, Friday, 15 September 2023 19:53 (seven months ago) link
These girls live in France iirc and would not know that most American families who are DoorDashing to keep the electricity on would probably rather have a “faggot” than have to deal with the tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars of medical costs involved in transitioning a trans child
― kirsten gilla band (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 15 September 2023 19:56 (seven months ago) link
this is nuts, I was just in the process of c&ping those two paragraphs myself. fucking TERFs
― Make the chats AI (Neanderthal), Friday, 15 September 2023 19:56 (seven months ago) link
Absolute goofery
― kirsten gilla band (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 15 September 2023 19:58 (seven months ago) link
the statement that TERF is misogynistic is definitely a thought-terminating cliche used amongst the TERF community which just goes to prove that any label with utility that exists for more than 5 minutes will eventually be abused en masse by people who are seeking to shield themselves from valid criticism
― Make the chats AI (Neanderthal), Friday, 15 September 2023 20:03 (seven months ago) link
aren't they friends with Anohni
― Murgatroid, Friday, 15 September 2023 20:11 (seven months ago) link
oh right, in that linked interview, it's right there
too lazy to read, does it say what Anohni thinks of their terfery
― Murgatroid, Friday, 15 September 2023 20:13 (seven months ago) link
"In general, our feminism is strongly earth-centered with an unceasing reverence for nature. We see the body as sacred. We are currently interested in a vision of re-wilding as a broader concept both for the planet and for female beings."
Always thought there was something vaguely fascist about new age Earth mother people who talk about "the body" a lot.
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Friday, 15 September 2023 20:27 (seven months ago) link
Is that translated from the French? Something might have been lost or mangled.
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Friday, 15 September 2023 20:28 (seven months ago) link
It's really hard for some people to not offer their opinions on other people's bodies
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Friday, 15 September 2023 20:32 (seven months ago) link
especially in france am I right
― Left, Friday, 15 September 2023 20:33 (seven months ago) link
Have to check the French stats vs. the Irish
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Friday, 15 September 2023 20:40 (seven months ago) link
This terminology, “TERFS” is being used to silence women
if only it worked
― boxedjoy, Saturday, 16 September 2023 08:02 (seven months ago) link
this doesn't really surprise me coming from them but it is pretty bizarre in the context of an interview for a performance as part of a festival program curated by anohni, alongside a statement from her about the legislative attacks on trans people. #4 in the 'tenets' here does read as a dogwhistle though: https://www.hollandfestival.nl/en/fututre-feminism
it's whole lot more than something!
― ufo, Saturday, 16 September 2023 08:15 (seven months ago) link
i'm not going to bother listening to their new song ("witch hunt", lol) but i recommend looking up the lyrics because it is mostly 'we transphobic and are being silenced!!!' the song
― ufo, Saturday, 16 September 2023 08:21 (seven months ago) link
I did listen to it (incognito mode on YouTube so this shitstain doesn't influence my algorithm) and I can confirm it's every bit as bad as you'd expect it to be!
― ˈʌglɪɪst preɪ, Saturday, 16 September 2023 08:40 (seven months ago) link
lol it's more than just #4 that's a dogwhistle, the whole fucking Future Feminism thing is gender essentialist garbage to put it lightly
― Murgatroid, Saturday, 16 September 2023 16:57 (seven months ago) link
women be shoppin and nurturin
― Murgatroid, Saturday, 16 September 2023 16:59 (seven months ago) link
so can we assume that Anhoni, despite trans status, has some not very friendly beliefs about all of this
― I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Saturday, 16 September 2023 17:07 (seven months ago) link
juliana huxtable also present … by one way to reconcile the contradiction might be that they hold that mtf transition is cool but not ftm
― Vapor waif (uptown churl), Saturday, 16 September 2023 17:16 (seven months ago) link
xpost I really am wondering about this now!
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 16 September 2023 17:21 (seven months ago) link
I might be and probably am wildly misinterpreting it but the lyrics to “My Lady Story” might hold the answer
― Murgatroid, Saturday, 16 September 2023 17:47 (seven months ago) link
she goes on to say in the same interview that she's bound her chest and fantasized about top surgery. I'm an apologist for their music, Ghosthorse & Stillborn was great afaic but that essentialist terfy stuff ain't it
― J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Saturday, 16 September 2023 18:05 (seven months ago) link
While we should all agree that TERFy shit is bad, I think it’s a real bad look to immediately go “What does their trans/nb friend have to say about this” like all trans people have to constantly live their lives as public spokespeople and accountants for their dumbest friends
― kirsten gilla band (Whiney G. Weingarten), Saturday, 16 September 2023 19:30 (seven months ago) link
Like ANONHI is living ANONHI’s life. They aren’t CocoRosie’s publicist or keeper
― kirsten gilla band (Whiney G. Weingarten), Saturday, 16 September 2023 19:32 (seven months ago) link
While we should all agree that TERFy shit is bad, I think it’s a real bad look to immediately go “What does their trans/nb friend have to say about this” like all trans people have to constantly live their lives as public spokespeople and accountants for their dumbest friends― kirsten gilla band (Whiney G. Weingarten)
― kirsten gilla band (Whiney G. Weingarten)
mmmm not sure i personally agree with you but i'm also not interested in debating this
---
re: those TERFy paras:
i mean kudos to them for trying to put the "radical feminism" back in TERF ig. it's just... the stuff they're saying is so far removed from my lived experience as a trans person, with the lived experiences of the queer people i know. that's kind of the funny thing, they're suggesting transness as something that erases queer identities and i don't really think of myself primarily as "trans" right now. it's useful only to the extent that people won't fucking shut up about it. i'm trans, sure, but it's more important to me that i'm a dyke, that i'm a faggot, that's a bigger part of who i am, these days.
all of this bullshit about "radical self-acceptance". accept what? that their definition of "woman" is more important than my bodily autonomy? it's goddamn silly. you wind up sounding like the fucking catholics, all of this shit about "acceptance" is the same shit the "natural family planning" people say. i mean under what circumstances does this manifesto consider a hysterectomy _acceptable_?
― Kate (rushomancy), Saturday, 16 September 2023 19:38 (seven months ago) link
the only reason I brought it up is that they are all working together on a festival that included this: https://www.hollandfestival.nl/en/fututre-feminism which people pointed out seemed to point to TERF-friendly philosophy. So I thought it was odd that Anhoni would be spearheading it.
― I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Saturday, 16 September 2023 19:39 (seven months ago) link
I had to google "kill whitey" parties. Another cultural phenomenon I'm happy to have missed.
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Saturday, 16 September 2023 19:49 (seven months ago) link
It’s always someone fascinating when people who were awful from the jump go out of their way to show how much more awfulness they have inside them to share with you
― the new drip king (DJP), Sunday, 17 September 2023 08:11 (seven months ago) link
omg how did I end up on this PR list
on wednesday 2.21, CocoRosie will announce their upcoming Elevator Angels EP (to be released 3.8) as a start of their 20th Anniversary celebrations. "Beautiful Boyz" HERE is their first track released wednesday 2.21.this Fall, the sister duo will also release a brand new studio album.CocoRosie - Elevator Angels EP: https://on.soundcloud.com/XZqFdembargoed press release, with photos, quote, artwork etc HEREwould you be into connecting?
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Friday, 9 February 2024 01:10 (two months ago) link
"dear CocoRosie, eat a brick of shit"
― never trust a big book and a simile (Neanderthal), Friday, 9 February 2024 01:37 (two months ago) link
they fucked up by not becoming mainstream country, they could have been ilx country thread darlings with their complex opinions and contradictions
― J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Friday, 9 February 2024 02:26 (two months ago) link
Hardy har
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Friday, 9 February 2024 02:27 (two months ago) link