Sinead O'Connor: C/D?

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Her versions of "All Apologies" and Elton John's "Sacrifice" are tops too.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Friday, 4 March 2005 15:41 (nineteen years ago) link

classic classic classic: for most of her music ("Troy", "Fire On Babylon", "I Am Stretched On Your Grave" especially) and also for the loopiness and her capacity to piss people off.

also search the track she did with Bomb The Bass and Benjamin Zephaniah, "Empire", which is terrifically dark. And "The Last Day Of Our Acquaintance" soundtracking the last chapter of Bret Easton Ellis's Glamorama.

she should have done more covers: she was a truly stunning interpretative artist, "Nothing Compares 2 U" is an obvious example but she also did gorgeous versions of "Sacrifice", "All Apologies" and "Don't Cry For Me Argentina" as well. (xpost!)

The Lex (The Lex), Friday, 4 March 2005 15:42 (nineteen years ago) link

Classic for "Troy", "Mandinka", "I Am Stretched On Your Grave", and "Nothing Compares 2 U". Also, there was a really good trance remix (hey, I like a bit of trance) of "Troy" a few years ago that used all of her vocals and stretched the whole thing out to a good 7-8 minutes. Anyone remember that?

Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Friday, 4 March 2005 15:48 (nineteen years ago) link

Black Boys on Mopeds, Troy, Nothing Compares 2 U, all classic.

Michael White (Hereward), Friday, 4 March 2005 15:51 (nineteen years ago) link

Some great choices from the first two albums here...but no love for "Jackie" yet? I mean jeepers folks, could an album start off any more dramatically and commandingly?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 4 March 2005 15:52 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh God, that song is OUTSTANDING!!!!!!!!!!

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 4 March 2005 15:55 (nineteen years ago) link

Dan, you're OTM re: Chaka. Sinead also did good work wit The The, Peter Gabriel and other duet partners. And whatever kind of priest she is, she's definitely not totally divorced from making music.

Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Friday, 4 March 2005 16:00 (nineteen years ago) link

OK, I've just listened to "Jackie" again and Ned otm, I am floored.

The Lex (The Lex), Friday, 4 March 2005 16:27 (nineteen years ago) link

:-) (When Placebo covered it they wisely decided not to clone the arrangement and turned it into a more downbeat version -- they knew they couldn't compete.)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 4 March 2005 16:30 (nineteen years ago) link

PLACEBO COVERED "JACKIE"?!?!?!

I could have lived the rest of my life happily not knowing that.

(I didn't actually know "Jackie" was an album opener, I only have the best of CD and Universal Mother; should I investigate the earlier albums?)

The Lex (The Lex), Friday, 4 March 2005 16:35 (nineteen years ago) link

"YOU'RE ALL WRONG" I said
As they stared at the sand
"THAT MAN KNOWS THAT SEA LIKE THE BACK OF HIS HAND!
He'll be back sometime
Laughing at YOU..."

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 4 March 2005 16:36 (nineteen years ago) link

I could have lived the rest of my life happily not knowing that.

Hahaha. (Keep in mind I lurv Placebo.) It's on the covers bonus disc that came with Sleeping With Ghosts.

should I investigate the earlier albums?

Um, yes? Very much so?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 4 March 2005 16:44 (nineteen years ago) link

Her album of traditional Irish tunes, Sean-Nos Nua (2002), is freakin' beautiful.

shookout (shookout), Friday, 4 March 2005 17:06 (nineteen years ago) link

First two albums are untouchably classic (though I think the Lion & the Cobra is in dire need of re-mastering....listen to the distoriton on "Troy" for cryin' out loud! Can that be fixed??). All went severely pear-shaped circa Am I Not Your Girl? with little or not hope of recovery (though both "Fire on Babylon" and her vocal performance on "You Made Me the Thief of Your Heart" from the In the Name of the Father soundtrack are fantastic). Hats also off for her cover of Elton John's "Sacrifice" on that shitty tribute record, which took an elegant swan-shaped dump on Reg's original.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 4 March 2005 17:48 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh, and "Heroine" (as done with the Edge from the soundtrack to some forgotten film) was quite nice as well.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 4 March 2005 17:50 (nineteen years ago) link

Dammit, I'm just echoing what others have already said. Oh rage. Oh despair.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 4 March 2005 17:51 (nineteen years ago) link

her "Don't cry for me Argentina" is heartbreaking.

jed_ (jed), Friday, 4 March 2005 17:56 (nineteen years ago) link

The soundtrack in question is Captive.

Edward Bax (EdBax), Friday, 4 March 2005 18:10 (nineteen years ago) link

classic, later gems: "Red Football" (universal mother) with an ending so over the top it's suitable for a horror movie.

"This is a rebel song" (Gospel Oak) so beautiful, so sad.

dewey, Friday, 4 March 2005 18:40 (nineteen years ago) link

Alex, I always dug the distortion on Troy...it sounds like she's singing so LOUD that the sound fizzles. Makes it sound live and immediate.

shookout (shookout), Friday, 4 March 2005 19:34 (nineteen years ago) link

Well, I guess. To me it just sounds like a bad, muddled recording. But, y'know, to each their own.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 4 March 2005 20:12 (nineteen years ago) link

Searching a jukebox of a bit too trad Irish stuff in an Irish Joint, i decided on Jackie, Just Like U Said It Would B, and Just Call Me Joe. It had been years and it was amazing to recall just how powerful, haunting, and well produced she was in '87. Sure some of it shows some age, but considering the spare production popular among indie singer-songwriters, esp in the US,it really impressive...

and Jed is OTM on the don't cry for me argentina..some how lighthearted and cutting at the same time...I think she got a bit of a raw deal for being so forceful with her politics, to the point of amost being cheap. I recall a huge scandal when she played Saratoga one summer when I was in jr. high (i think) and refusing to have the national anthem played before the show...that seemed, even then, a bit childish, but the young fresh foolish me got chills when she ripped up the pope.

b b, Friday, 4 March 2005 20:16 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm with Alex, Troy is one of the songs that sounds a like a bad production decision a few years later

b b, Friday, 4 March 2005 20:17 (nineteen years ago) link

Somehow I get the feeling that nobody's listened to her last 2 albums if nobody here's mentioned them .....

ffirehorse, Friday, 4 March 2005 20:32 (nineteen years ago) link

Universal Mother is indeed a very strange album. It's like a struggle between Paganism and Catholicism... as viewed through the eyes of a mother archetype. Although, half the time, she's not an archetype but a very real flesh and blood mom, complete with embarrassing (yet oddly affecting if you allow yourself to fall for the intense preciousness) lullabies to her little boy, who even gets to write and sing his own song. I just listened to it, and aside from some of the songs already mentioned ("Fire on Babylon", "All Apologies"), there is an a capella song called "In this Heart" which, if you play it loud with headphones, will squeeze your aorta until you beg for mercy. Seriously, it's gorgeous. Now that I tihnk about it, the album is strange in that it seems to be celebrating motherhood and yet is filled with this horrible sense of impending loss.

(Otherwise, I'm with everyone else who rates her first two as unassailable Classics).

David A. (Davant), Friday, 4 March 2005 21:16 (nineteen years ago) link

Basically, I've heard Sinead songs that I didn't get but I've never heard a Sinead song I didn't like (if that makes sense).

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 4 March 2005 21:19 (nineteen years ago) link

There's a weird version of - "Dark End of the Street?" I think that's the one. It was recorded with Brian Eno and stuck on her best of/rarities set from a couple of years ago.

That "Gospel Oak" EP, short though it may be, shows that she remains an amazing songwriter. Her last two albums proper, though - "Universal Mother" and "Faith and Courage" - seem too set on the by then impossible notion that she might get played on the radio, and therefore she makes the attendant compromises. To be honest, I'm worried Kate Bush may fall prey to the same delusion.

Frankly, I wish Sinead realized (assuming she doesn't) that she could maintain her ideals on the folk/cult circuit, a la Marianne Faithful or someone like that, rather than aim for pop appeal.

Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Friday, 4 March 2005 21:30 (nineteen years ago) link

Yeh, makes sense.

(xpost)

David A. (Davant), Friday, 4 March 2005 21:31 (nineteen years ago) link

DUD!!

Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Friday, 4 March 2005 21:52 (nineteen years ago) link

Jump in the River is amazing. I wish she wrote more songs like that.

Sara Sherr, Friday, 4 March 2005 21:55 (nineteen years ago) link

If she'd found goth instead of God, I'd probably be her number 1 fan.

I loved that EP she put out in '97 or so.

ian in brooklyn, Friday, 4 March 2005 23:50 (nineteen years ago) link

no mention of 'three babies', doesn't it follow 'nothing compares to u' and it's so good it makes me forget how great that song was. for a short time in my life it was all sinead and the house of love's butterfly album.

keith m (keithmcl), Friday, 4 March 2005 23:57 (nineteen years ago) link

I can't really think of Universal Mother as a radio-friendly compromise, mainly because it's hard to see what's supposed to work on radio (the more obvious choices "Fire On Babylon" and "Thank You For Hearing Me" are both great though so it's not a case of a failed attempt I don't think). My favourite track on that album is this gorgeous ballad "A Perfect Indian", which is pretty heartbreaking I reckon. Most uncomfortable track lyrically is "Scorn Not His Simplicity" (a track about children with intellectual disabilities) which funnily enough Sinead didn't even write!

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Saturday, 5 March 2005 00:09 (nineteen years ago) link

I remember seeing her perform "Mandinka" (?) on the American Music Awards (?) when I was a little kid, way, way before Nevermind changed things. I remember her combat boot dance on stage. I'd never seen a bald chick besides the one in that one Star Trek movie. Crazy.

Smooth Gold, Saturday, 5 March 2005 02:20 (nineteen years ago) link

Grammys I think. That was the legendary Jethro-Tull-wins-for-heavy-metal ceremony.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 5 March 2005 02:22 (nineteen years ago) link

The post-SNL backlash in this country was pretty lame.

Her version of "The Butcher's Boy" in the film of the same name is pretty special.

"I Am Stretched On Your Grave" was teh jammm at the time. Haven't heard it in years.

Drew Daniel (Drew Daniel), Saturday, 5 March 2005 02:49 (nineteen years ago) link

I remember never once being able to turn away from the vid for "Nothing Compares 2 U" no matter how many sqaudrillion times it had been played on MTV. I remember it stopping my step-father dead in his tracks.....rendering him positively still and silent until its finish. "Hot damn!" he said softly, afterwards.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 5 March 2005 02:57 (nineteen years ago) link

First two albums are great, and she also was pretty amazing when I saw her live (right after I do not want... came out). She closed with "Troy" and it was gut-wrenchingly cathartic and crazy and good.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Saturday, 5 March 2005 03:02 (nineteen years ago) link

Well this thread has caused me to dig out The Lion and the Cobra again for the first time in a long while. Amazing how mainstream this sounds like retrospect, and I don't mean that as casting aspersion on O'Connor at how the standards have shifted (for the better, I'd think). Something like "Mandinka" could probably be reworked into something for Avril or Ms. Clarkson, for instance -- the arrangement may be dated (to an extent) but the construction is not.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 5 March 2005 03:14 (nineteen years ago) link

Well, it was fairly mainstream -- "Mandinka" got prime-time MTV play, and of course I do not want... sold a zillion copies.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Saturday, 5 March 2005 03:30 (nineteen years ago) link

(oops, I see you mean the first album specifically; but yeah, she was pretty pop-accessible for a mad baldie)

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Saturday, 5 March 2005 03:31 (nineteen years ago) link

my inner muso has to note that, on the ealier stuff, she tended to sing a mcirotine flat which drives my ears nuts

ianinbrooklyn, Saturday, 5 March 2005 04:31 (nineteen years ago) link

I liked the first album, sure. But I can't say I ever felt a burning need to return to her work. I did get that Heroine soundtrack thing, though, but more because I was excited about Michael Brook or the Edge or whatever it was.

Bimble... (Bimble...), Saturday, 5 March 2005 05:01 (nineteen years ago) link

most of the songs on the captive soundtrack are really great, including the one with sinead vocals. i wish the edge would do more albums with brian eno and michael brook. a U2 album with sinead instead of bono would probably be pretty great.

fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Saturday, 5 March 2005 07:55 (nineteen years ago) link

"Cos of this thread I picked up Lion & Cobra when I saw it cheap 2nd hand (although I already knew it from the early 90s when I heard it first). Jackie, Just like you said it would be, and jerusalem sound great again, while a few others (like Mandinka) haven't aged well - like Ned says, cos of the sounds and arrangement. It's also not nearly as iddicult an album as I remember it. Maybe when I was younger I found Troy a lot weirder than I do today - and I give her credit for opening up a 16 year old's ears to stuff like Troy.

paulhw (paulhw), Sunday, 6 March 2005 01:13 (nineteen years ago) link

two months pass...
I am seriously thinking this could be one of the year's best albums. Tracklisting:

Massive Attack -- Special Cases (Radio Edit)
Asian Dub Foundation Featuring Sinéad O'Connor -- 1000 Mirrors
Bomb The Bass Featuring Sinéad O'Connor & Benjamin Zephaniah -- Empire
Ghostland -- Guide Me God
Jah Wobble's Invaders Of The Heart Featuring Sinéad O'Connor -- Visions Of You
Afro Celt Sound System -- Release (Album Edit)
Sinéad O'Connor With The Blockheads -- Wake Up And Make Love With Me
The The -- Kingdom Of Rain (Album Version)
U2 & Sinéad O'Connor -- I’m Not Your Baby
Conjure One Featuring Sinéad O'Connor -- Tears From The Moon (Album Version)
Peter Gabriel & Sinéad O'Connor -- Blood Of Eden (Radio Edit)
Moby Featuring Sinéad O'Connor -- Harbour
Aslan -- Up In Arms
Damien Dempsey Featuring Sinéad O'Connor -- It’s All Good
The Edge & Sinéad O'Connor -- Heroine (Theme From “Captive”)
The Colourfield Featuring Sinéad O'Connor -- Monkey In Winter
Sinéad O'Connor & Terry Hall -- All Kinds Of Everything

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 22 May 2005 13:36 (eighteen years ago) link

Wow! All that compilation is missing is "You Made Me The Thief of Your Heart" from "In the Name of the Father."

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Sunday, 22 May 2005 13:52 (eighteen years ago) link

Her version of "All kinds of everything" always makes me very Christmasy. Like I get an urge to run through snow while wearing sleigh-bells on top of my head.

brittle-lemon, Sunday, 22 May 2005 15:15 (eighteen years ago) link

four weeks pass...
"I Am Stretched On Your Grave" was teh jammm at the time. Haven't heard it in years.

i happened to catch this one today on an internet radio station i listen to at work -- it was as stunning now as it was 15 years ago (when i first heard it). and i'm enough of a softie to get still choked up when i hear "nothing compares 2 u" (much less see that video).

i guess i should root around my cds to see if i stil have i do not want what i haven't got.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Tuesday, 21 June 2005 04:52 (eighteen years ago) link

Oddly enough I heard this yesterday as well. It actually sounded like a remix!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 21 June 2005 05:07 (eighteen years ago) link

V good read:

https://zacharylipez.ghost.io/never-get-old/

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 2 August 2023 15:20 (eight months ago) link

My favorite moment in The Butcher Boy is when Virgin Mary Sinead says, "Fer fuck's sake, Frankie!"

a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Wednesday, 2 August 2023 15:23 (eight months ago) link

Dave Stewart posted what looks like live footage of Sinead singing the vocal track for “Jealous” (one of my favorites):

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CvLUDdQNKHD/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

birdistheword, Thursday, 3 August 2023 05:11 (eight months ago) link

y’all, Alfred is on this week’s NYT popcast pod.

just starting it now :)

sknybrg, Thursday, 3 August 2023 17:47 (eight months ago) link

Oh! Didn't know it went live!

the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 3 August 2023 17:51 (eight months ago) link

i started listening earlier this morning & said HOORAY out loud when they intro’d him

werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 3 August 2023 18:28 (eight months ago) link

Excellent work Alfred!

Here's the link: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/03/arts/music/popcast-sinead-oconnor.html

birdistheword, Thursday, 3 August 2023 19:22 (eight months ago) link

So sad to hear about Sinead O' Connor; thee definition of fearless. I once got punched by someone when DJ'ing in the early 90s after going from some mad UK hardcore track into her version of "I am Stretched on your Grave" (so much for PLUR!). Will try that again this weekend!

— Optimo (Espacio) (@JDTwitch) July 26, 2023

PaulTMA, Friday, 4 August 2023 00:20 (eight months ago) link

Alfred, your crushing this ep of NYT Popcast!

ripersnifle, Friday, 4 August 2023 00:58 (eight months ago) link

*you're

ripersnifle, Friday, 4 August 2023 01:57 (eight months ago) link

I think I made too many obvious points but thank you! I appreciate it.

the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 4 August 2023 03:36 (eight months ago) link

Great conversation. Really enjoyed the discussion on cover versions and Sinead’s approach to them. I lost the thread fairly early in her career, so the points made here, and on today’s pod, are making me eager to dig back into her catalog

sknybrg, Friday, 4 August 2023 04:42 (eight months ago) link

I think I made too many obvious points but thank you! I appreciate it.

One can never be too obvious for New York Times readers/podcast listeners.

but also fuck you (unperson), Friday, 4 August 2023 15:16 (eight months ago) link

lol

Poor Little Fool Killer (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 4 August 2023 15:17 (eight months ago) link

Great episode, superb guest. Gave Sinead the historical weight she so deserves.

Indexed, Friday, 4 August 2023 18:18 (eight months ago) link

Thank you!

and good morning!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNAqVfCvr-I

the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 5 August 2023 12:06 (eight months ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hj4370BMCE

droid, Tuesday, 8 August 2023 10:24 (eight months ago) link

(Sinead doing "Princess of the Posse" with Latifah on her talk show#

Love that so much because it's 100% being done because Sinead loves that song, it's not like that is a song most people even remember

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 8 August 2023 11:28 (eight months ago) link

I finally got a chance to listen to the podcast. Alfred, you were brilliant. The host was pretty insufferable.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Tuesday, 8 August 2023 12:32 (eight months ago) link

thanks, jimbeaux :)

the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 8 August 2023 12:35 (eight months ago) link

Is there a link to the podcast that doesn't require me to login/create an account?

niall horanburger (cryptosicko), Tuesday, 8 August 2023 13:05 (eight months ago) link

Listened this morning: really good stuff, Alfred!

mike t-diva, Tuesday, 8 August 2023 13:29 (eight months ago) link

enjoyed listening alfred! especially nice that you helped steer the convo past the usual pope/nothing compares stuff, the b52s cover was a really great surprise

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 8 August 2023 14:40 (eight months ago) link

A very touching poem from her brother that was read at the funeral yesterday.

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2023/08/09/blackbird-in-dun-laoghaire-a-poem-by-joseph-oconnor/

droid, Wednesday, 9 August 2023 13:42 (eight months ago) link

five months pass...

The London Inner South Coroner's Court has issued a statement that says O'Connor died from natural causes. The court added that they have now ceased their involvement in O'Connor's death.

birdistheword, Tuesday, 9 January 2024 15:12 (three months ago) link

Yep.

droid, Tuesday, 9 January 2024 16:32 (three months ago) link

"Mere hours before her cause of death was shared on Tuesday, it had been announced that a special tribute concert to O’Connor and the late Pogues frontman Shane MacGowan will be taking place at Carnegie Hall in New York in March. Irish singers Glen Hansard, David Gray, Dropkick Murphys, Cat Power and Amanda Palmer are among the musicians taking part, with more to be announced."

Apologies to Cat Power but I may have to bomb this.

Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 9 January 2024 17:02 (three months ago) link

The Irish singer died by natural causes

Is this going to change the narrative that everyone seems to have adopted, based on certain assumptions?

Halfway there but for you, Tuesday, 9 January 2024 17:44 (three months ago) link

Because that linked yahoo article (and the term "natural causes") are still pretty ambiguous, here's a more unambiguous statement from WaPo:

Most deaths from natural causes are not reported to any coroner but if a coroner found natural causes it would never be a suicide.” If someone dies of “natural causes,” this means that they did not die by suicide, or in an accident, or by a drug overdose, he said.

enochroot, Tuesday, 9 January 2024 17:58 (three months ago) link

So what then was the cause of death? Presumably this means she had some kind of sickness, but what was it?

lord of the rongs (anagram), Tuesday, 9 January 2024 18:01 (three months ago) link

xxxp that carnegie hall tribute show includes a $20,000 "nothing compares 2u" package where you get to weigh in on the order of the songs being played? https://citywinery.com/new-york-city/events/nothing-compares-2-u-wjs0ta

BrianB, Tuesday, 9 January 2024 18:12 (three months ago) link

aren’t coroners different in every state? I think there was a Frontline about that. Natural causes may be more or less ambiguous depending on the locality.

Piggy Lepton (La Lechera), Tuesday, 9 January 2024 18:14 (three months ago) link

I bet the boys of the NYPD choir don't even be there (especially since there's no such thing)

StanM, Tuesday, 9 January 2024 18:59 (three months ago) link


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