Sitcom Hell

Seinfeld fits. Larry Sanders fits.

But no, one of my coworkers told me the last scene on the last Dharma & Greg as that they got into this car accident and then the screen goes black and Greg is all, "Dharma? Dharma? Dharma, are you okay?" blah blah blah. I hope she dies, because I can't stand that Jenna Elfman bitch.

"Forced" to watch We Got It Maid? The sad thing is, I am still haunted by the horrible theme song. The only nice thing I can think to say about it is that it wasn't as bad as Small Wonder.

I don't see how Seinfeld fits -- it's more about Jerry & co. making other people's lives hell, I think.

Seinfeld doesn't really count because they never seem too unhappy about anything, it's really just mild irritation blown out of proportion. How about Everybody Loves Raymond - his brother, his parents, his in-laws, even his wife sometimes. That's a great show anyhow.

"Cultural implications": I have idly (add S, T, U and P if you must) wondered what's going on that the Dharma's dad's character — who is after all a member of the Weather Undergound or similar — has just become so much domesticated sitcom material.

This theory is filed alongside my other cracker:: The Matrix = Hollywood's version of the Baader-Meinhoff story, WITH A HAPPY ENDING (happy for Baader and Meinhoff, anyway: it's unhappy for the world they're rescuing from techno-delusion...)

Galton & Simpson's earlier sitcom, 'Hancocks Half-Hour', was basicially the same thing - hapless dreamer has fanciful ideas which get shot down, thus at the end of each episode, our 'hero' found himself where he always was and would always remain - below the bottom rung in society and in despair. I think it's still the most watched comedy series in British TV history.

More up-to-date, probably 'The League of Gentlemen' carries on this bleak, none-more-black-comedy tradition. If you count that as a sitcom, that is.

"Ever Decreasing Circles".

Mind you, there's not such a paradox here, perhaps: since I feel much the same way about Whitehouse. Like: make it go away.

EDC fits Tom's theory, except – once again — it isn't funny.

Actually the mention of EDC in the copy of Papercuts which is current toilet reading at Casa Ewing is what prompted this thread, so everything comes full circle, sort of.

EDC is, I think, meant to be more neurotic than laugh-out-loud funny. I still love it, though. Any chance of going into more detail, Mike?

Tom's vision of hell theory rings true for EDC. In fact, it is a particularly complex example of this. The situation is hellish for Martin because of his perfect neighbour Paul (Peter Egan). Martin takes it to extremes ("Why do the moles make molehills my lawn and not Paul's?" he asks in frustration at the beginning of one episode). But also, it is hellish for both Paul and Martin's wife (Helen I think, played by Penelope Wilton) *because* of Martin's obsessive behaviour and tedious conversation. Martin gets on very well with the dull, far-too-couply Howard and Hilda, to Paul and Helen's chagrin.

Was EDC funny? Yes, but in a subtle way. It could almost be the origin of the term "gentle comedy", which would bring comments of "so gentle it's not funny" from lovers of more brash, in yer face material. My parents *loved* this show and I'm sure it is because they knew ppl who were just like the characters.

Good example: Father Ted obv., Only Fools & Horses obvx2, Steptoe & Hancock (which may in fairness have provided the kernel of the idea, now that I reread the thread above). US sitcoms are again a bad match.

Mind you, you can understand Paul's bemusement. How does someone as intelligent, witty and all round great as Penelope Wilton's character end up married to someone like this?

Roseanne v The Good Life v My Name is Earl v Coupling.

The OC and Desperate Housewives wouldn't work here because British culture doesn't work like that. Also, as you pointed out, they aren't comedies. Though Hollyoaks comes close to the OC, I guess (xpost)

My Family is pretty much the archetypal British sitcom, isn't it?

Er...I'm sure we could find as many (or more) examples that aren't. Aside from the two Ailsa mentioned, Everybody Loves Raymond (they're not poor but...), Rhoda, Archie Bunker's Place/All In The Family, Sanford and Son (OK, last two = US equivalents of UK sitcoms), Chico and the Man, Cheers, Taxi, King of the Hill...

There's also a few amount of mileage to be had in US sitcoms of class-straddling culture-clash (Fresh Prince of Bel Air, er...Diff'rent Strokes at a push...)

It's not all Niles and Frasier sipping lattes (though that has its own class tension in Crane senior).

Cheers had a pretty broad social spectrum; laffs were both at the expense, and benefit, of the toffs (frasier, dianne) and the proles (the rest of them), at different times. episodes like the 'snark hunt', or when woody got involved in politics, or where frasier wanted to read them dickens but ended up twisting it into a tale of serial killers and mutant ninja turtles to keep the bar interested, were excellent at this.

Yeah, I think the only way "Seinfeld" fits here is through the George character. Which means that "Curb Your Enthusiasm" fits better, as larry=george.

Yeah, I think the only way "Seinfeld" fits here is through the George character. "Curb Your Enthusiasm" fits almost perfectly here though.

I have missed the boat as regards beating up the "upper-middle-class" line, but any generalisation about American Comedy that misses the Simpsons needs rewriting.

You are supposed to identify with Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld, but you're not supposed to like them. If you see the shows through the prism of class, you completely misunderstand them - they are morality plays.

Frasier's Dad is absolutely not the only characeter audience members are meant to identify with

dog latin is totally off the money as to the actual situation of characters in US vs UK coms, but he does somewhat accurately identify a difference in attitudes sold to the different national audiences - Americans more often want to give reality the promising sheen of upward mobility (thus the at least (but not complete) semi-fantasy of Friends), or a light treatment of the ironies of reality, while Britons more often reward a flatter, more malcontented, pessimistic vibe.

You could say that US comedy is about people making a pigs ear of a good situation while Brticom is about people trying earnestly to make the best out of a bad one.

perhaps, but I can easily think of Brit contra examples. As Time Goes By, in many respects. Even Fawlty Towers.

I've seen My Name Is Earl a few times, and I think he won the lottery but then got hit by a car and lost the winning ticket, so he never received the money. So he's not rich at all, just into karma. I might be wrong about this, though, as I don't pay much attention.

If you look at it that way, the Modern World is Archie Bunker's hell in "All in the Family." He's definitely the protagonist, even if he's neither a hero nor an anti-hero. He's clearly an unsympathetic character, usually wrong about everything, but it's clearly his hell.

That would also interestingly make "Gomer Pyle, U.S.M.C." Sgt. Carter's hell, as well as making "Dennis the Menace" Mr. Mitchell's hell. "Mary Tyler Moore" is Lou Grant's hell. I'd prefer to look at it that way.

"Family Ties" would be Jennifer's (Tina Yothers) hell. Hippy parents, Reaganite brother, Valley-girl sister. Everything is so clear now. Not that it was particlarly funny as much as "endearing."

Best of all, "The Brady Bunch" is now re-situated as Alice's hell. Maybe it's her salvation, having a family (cf ep where she quits because of the kids), but as far as that goes it's pretty bleak. She's the only funny character in the show, so QED or whatever.

The inverse might be protagonists who are knowing-but-often-removed observers of other people's hell(s). "Seinfeld," for one, particularly that ep where Elaine and George switch fates, but Jerry remains "Even Steven." "The Andy Griffith Show," "The Cosby Show," probably most shows named after the lead actor fall into this category. Except "Newhart." It's his hell.

King of Queens, That 70s Show, American Dad...

and loads of brit ones about the upper middle class (Good life, EDC, Butteflies) and the wealthy (Yes Minister, To the manor born). this thread is ridiculous.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cb/Gimmeabreak.jpg

Answer, btw, to "where does...fit into this?" is "it doesn't". Doglatin is pretty much talking pish from a fairly uninformed standpoint.

No, he does have the money. What happened was, he got the winning ticket, then he got hit by the car and lost the ticket. Then, while he was in hospital, he saw Carson Daly on the telly talking about karma, so he made his list, and when he fixed the very first thing on his list (I forget what it was), he found the ticket and collected the money. And now he's using the money to fix all the bad things he did because if he doesn't, karma will take the money away from him again.

also Cheers.