Buying A House: C or D?

akm that story broke my heart cleanly in half

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That is pretty sad. I hope someone can break it to the guy gently. Or that he passes peacefully in his sleep soon and makes the question moot.

Different subject: I have a problem understanding the concept of home "ownership" that doesn't involve owning an entire building and the lot it sits on. Like, "owning" a flat or a condo or whatever. If the main sewer line pops or the roof leaks, and several "owners" have to get together to figure out which plumber or roofer to call, that doesn't feel like true home ownership to me. Or, what if you're technically an "owner" but have to deal with 3 a.m. death metal enthusiasts on the floor above or below? I'd have a hard time thinking of myself as a homeowner if I was still subject to a renter's miseries.

owning a house is pretty rad. not paying rent PWNS. Mortgages are feh, but, not having to chase dodgy landlords and beg for plumbing fitting replacements is k-awesome.

otm. Yet there isn't a week when I don't suppress second thoughts. Condo association meetings suck, even though mine is the least intrusive imaginable.

Condo associations, God bless 'em, function a bit like mixed-markets economies, seeking their ideal Nash equilibria through compromise and intuitive game theory, and all the while confounding one's impulse to live like a bear.

our house on MVI is officially on the market. we are crossing our fingers. we would love to buy something here with what we get from a sale. we are renting right now. we love it here and want to stay 4ever. we shall see. if it languishes on the market too long we might need to rent it out again to help pay the loan money we owe. i hope it doesn't come to that. but who knows. it kinda looks a little dumb and prefab on the outside, but its really quite nice on the inside. big and breezy. we just got back from a week of scrubbing it down and cleaning it out. the people who were renting it had huge dogs and were chain smokers and had big huge 18 year old sons and the walls were really gross. why did we paint them white again? but really it was lovely to be on the island. the weather was amazing. the birds! i had forgotten about the birds. its like one big bird sanctuary. even walking the beach by the lagoon next to our house with the kids was so nice. (without the day to dayness and my job woes and money woes we could just enjoy the island for what it is, a big beautiful rock in the ocean.)

http://oceanpark-realty.com/propertydetail.php?id=263

We were meant to exchange last Wednesday, but annoyingly we still haven't, and now my dad's trying to persuade me to make the removal of an asbestos-roofed shed from the garden of the property a condition of sale.

He's got a point - we don't want it, it's a non-permanent structure and it'll be costly to remove (never mind the asbestos, it's in a stupid position). But we don't want to upset the apple cart and delay the exchange (and thus the completion date), which would be really inconvenient to us.

Is the last-minute addition of such conditions of sale a common thing? The thing is, I know that if we ever try to sell the pace and the shed's still there, the buyer will inevitably say "we're not touching it till that asbestos is a long away away" so we'll have to pay to have it done then, even if we leave it for now. How much is asbestos removal anyway?

the people who were renting it had huge dogs and were chain smokers and had big huge 18 year old sons and the walls were really gross.

My mother used to rent houses out. Some of the things that her renters would do to her houses (and we're talking about 90% of her renters) would beggar belief.

Not sure if I've mentioned it here or not, but our brother-in-law bought us a house. It's a poor people's house--a decrepit trailer-plus-extensions and a shed way out in the woods in Central Florida, and half the family is going to live there with us--but it's a place to live.

Is the last-minute addition of such conditions of sale a common thing?

It's not uncommon. A ballpark for removal would probably be about £1000, although your local council may offer an almost free service to dispose of the shed roof as a single piece (assuming you are able to remove it and bag it up securely intact). If you don't want to delay the exchange the best option at this stage is for your solicitor to negotiate a discount based on the cost to you to get rid of it, so you need to get a proper quote from a local builder/asbestos removal firm and use this as a bargaining tool. This kind of thing is usually called an "allowance on completion" ie. when you complete the money is knocked off the price you pay.

I'd recommend against trying to get the vendor to do the work before you exchange as this WILL delay things and you'll still have to get the work independently inspected once done.

Christine: imo, any house is better than no house - congratulations, and whatever state it's in now is just a starting point for renovations!

All this is probably moot now, as we've just exchanged, an hour ago! OMG we pretty much own our own first home, crazy.

So now we've exchanged, we don't have a negotiating leg to stand on, do we?

Yeah, I think you're stuck with your shed. But it's yours! Your very own lump of asbestos!

Woo, asbestos! Maybe I can make something useful out of it like, uh, a barbecue. Or crush it up and lay it around the outside of the house to keep people away, like a toxic dust moat...

Whats up, homeowners?

I have to vent here. In addition to the Federal New Homebuyer's Tax Credit, California also has a tax credit in place which can provide up to $10,000 in tax credit for first time home buyers. Needless to say, with the property values out here, EVERYONE is claiming $10,000.

Problem is that you need to send in your application within ONE WEEK of settlement. 7 days.

And, if your realtor, escrow agent, or accountant don't give you the heads up on this, you miss out on $10,000.

Now, I've taken out a serious load of student loans, and have lost my share at the poker table, but just watching a $10,000 tax credit disappear because paid professionals in my employ were not diligent in providing me with information re: a FILING DEADLINE?!?!?!

If I were to be so lax and fuck something up like this for one of my clients, I would be unemployed.

I am SO pissed off right now. It might take a few extra minutes on the exercise hamster wheel to work this one out.

Wow, that really sucks. REALLY. Are you sure there's no comeback or anything?

Having total mortgage woes today, fuck em all.

I went ahead and filed the application anyway - took literally 5 min from print to fax. Unfortunately, the folks at the CA Tax Board informed me that late is late.

According to my accountant, who I trust to a great degree, the escrow company typically takes care of this sort of pro forma paperwork. Their response was "Not our problem" and "That's not something we take care of here." I want to go just yell at them for however long $10,000 would be worth.

So mad.

Just to give a countervailing opinion, we just moved into a rental house and are delighted. We're paying rent and not building equity, but on the other hand we're not paying property taxes. And what we get for our money is that when anything needs fixing in the house it is SOMEBODY ELSE'S PROBLEM. (It helps that our landlord actually gets things done effectively and promptly and is very into keeping up the house, landscaping, etc.)

And that feeling of "getting home from work and closing the door of your own house?" It turns out you have it even if you don't own the house!

fuuuuuuuuuuuck that sucks BLAM. i'll see if we have $10K lying around the house that we can bring down when we visit.

In addition to the Federal New Homebuyer's Tax Credit

I thought this was over with??

Nope. We did the deed in enough time to take advantage of THAT one. This CA one, however - I'm just freaking so pissed.

damn man, you got my sympathy

Christine, don't harsh on your new home! My mom was just saying that a few otherwise-WASPy members of my extended fam did the same when they were newly married: young couple pays off trailer home within 1-2 years, puts rest of money in savings for next and nicer domicile.

A roof is a roof is a roof, and as long as there's love and refuge and all that shit underneath it, it's doing its job. Congrats!

finally in a position next year to do this....due to the charity of our friends, who just bought a house but now have to move overseas for work for 10 months, they're renting their house to us for super cheap, allowing us to save a ton of money. hopefully the housing marketing will only get worse for sellers in the next year and we'll find a bargain by the time they come back.

that's a kickass situation right there

BLAM, I dunno if this helps, but if you think of the $10K in the context of the gigantic sums of money involved in buying a house it's actually not that much -- e.g. if somebody came to you and told you "I just talked to the sellers and they admitted they would have sold it to you for $10K less if you'd pressed them" you wouldn't be that mad, right?

so what's the situation at the moment are house prices rising again? what about like mortgage rates and that? i am also in position to save some mad cash at the moment and considering waiting a year but wonder if it's worth having a punt now if it's worth it (while things are cheap???)

I believe they'll keep going down, down, down but the truth is no one knows. Cognitive bias validates decisions you've already made, so people who've bought think prices will now go up, while people who haven't (like me) think the trough is still to come.

Like anything with property, it depends on the area.

Laurel: First off, we've been married since 1993. My husband is disabled and can't work, and I'm a 40-something ten-dollar-an-hour home health CNA with bipolar disorder. There's a more-than-zero chance that we may be stuck there for our entire lives.

And his brother is mentally ill, and may throw us out at the slightest whim.

i just bought a house!

I'm buying a flat too! Homebuyer reports are scary :(

BLAM, I dunno if this helps, but if you think of the $10K in the context of the gigantic sums of money involved in buying a house it's actually not that much -- e.g. if somebody came to you and told you "I just talked to the sellers and they admitted they would have sold it to you for $10K less if you'd pressed them" you wouldn't be that mad, right?

Not THAT mad, but still pretty mad.

I mean, look - we found out about this and found out we didn't get our stuff in to take advantage of it all within like four days. So, we just have to forget about it. Unless we somehow qualify with our late filing, and then yeah! But I'm not holding out hope.

Jel - part-time librarians have had a pay rise?

in a conundrum: need to move soon, really sick of rentals, have a moderately high salary (also a lot of debt though), not much for a downpayment that is easily accessible...yet, it seems like I should buy a house at this point. they are going for nothing here (nothing being mid 400's for the bay area) and I'm sure will appreciate in ten years. still it would maybe kill me on a monthly basis. also, I am terrified of everything. what to do?

you have a 401k or IRA

We just bought in N Oaktown w/ an FHA. We're definitely paying more than we were for rent, but we have way more space and feel like we're finally settled. For us it's definitely proving to be worth the pain, since we are doing something we've had as a goal for a very long while.

Also keep in mind that while $0 of your rent is tax-deductible, a significant amount of your monthly mortgage payment is (property tax & interest).

Also keep in mind that while $0 of your rent is tax-deductible, a significant amount of your monthly mortgage payment is (property tax & interest).

plus, if you have to get "mortgage insurance" and if you have to pay points. However, that isn't forever -- once you get to the point where you're paying more principal than interest, it doesn't have that much in the way of tax advantages.

you always get the prop tax deduction though--at least under certain income limits.

It's important to note that mortgage insurance(aka PMI) is mandatory for FHA loans, which allow you to borrow w/ 3.5% down) can end up around $250/mo. To my knowledge the deduction for mortage insurance can only be claimed through tax year 2010--it's over.

Homepath properties are supposed to be a good value--they let you buy @ 5%, with no PMI.

I own my condo, and, yes, getting the interest back in the form of an IRS return is nice, although it fails to compensate for depreciation.

yes, but the property tax deduction is nowhere near the deduction you get in the first few years of mortgage interest. And it might end up being smaller than the standard deduction.

man i am glad we had enough money to put down to avoid paying mortgage insurance, i had no idea it was anywhere near that much per month

i have friends that pay $200/mo.

jesus christ

Yeah our PMI is +- $250. It's a percentage of your loan. It just went up at the end of last year, between the time we put in an offer and when it closed.

Yeah, I was able to avoid mortgage insurance as well. We paid about 11% down, borrowing against my 401k. But my house was less than $140,000. The advantages of the dying Great Lakes region.

V. much trying to make extra payments to shorten the life of that PMI

yeah, i also have bay area friends that bought cheaper places and/or borrowed money from their families so that they could put more money down and not have to get dumb mortgage insurance.

if only I had a family with a dime to loan me (or that I spoke to). I'm beginning to think buying is a very bad idea for me, but who knows.

but yes to answer above, I do have a sizeable 401k. not sure borrowing against it is a good idea since I'm likely to leave my job soon and go elsewhere.