raw power: bowie vs iggy mixes

Well, i grew up with the lousy Bowie mix and thought Iggy's was a definite improvement...at first, mainly because that ridiculously raucnhy, fuzzy guitar part in "Search & Destroy" was totally inaudible originally. But I eventually realized that that was the ONLY thing I liked about Iggy's mix; namely, the uncovering of an unnoticed sonic detail or two. But in retrospect, yeah, Bowie's lousy mix had more power than Iggy's lousier mix.

One aspect of the '97 edition that was unquestionably an improvement: the restoration to full-length of several tracks that faded significantly earlier on the original CD and vinyl. Playing time-wise, the Iggy version is nearly a full minute longer than the original. Also, the belch that introduces "Raw Power" itself was restored. (Went MIA on the original CD edition.)

I like that this poll is sudden, brutal and quick.

he just put back every single grunt, groan, and word he ever said on the whole fuckin' soundtrack.

Yeah this is one of the problems I have with the Iggy mix, these extra grunts that weren't there on the Bowie mix, which is what I'm used to and they just sound wrong being there.

What you'd expect if you let a singer mix an album perhaps. There's more bass in the Iggy mix, this is a good thing. I really like the version of "I Need Somebody" but agree with a lot of the criticisms voiced upthread,

Agreed re. moans, grunts, etc. On occasion they interfere with the brain-dissolving assault of the guitar howls mentioned above. I like the idea of the opening belch though. It seems appropriate somehow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

that's not such a bad result
(for the iggy mix, naturally)

I think I quite liked the Iggy mixes of Your Pretty Face Is Going To Hell and Shake Appeal, the louder guitar sounded pretty good there, but the rest I'll take Bowie. I definitely prefer the Bowie mix of Search & Destroy, the weird mix really works there for me, the way the lead guitar (overdubbed?) comes in so loud just adds the whole out of control feeling, the Iggy mix might be a bit harder sounding but the Bowie mix is fucking deranged which is how it should really be.

Maybe I've been under a rock or something, but I discovered recently that there is a Legacy Edition of Raw Power either out or on-the-way. One thing quite killer about this is that there is a second disc with a couple of outtakes AND the fabled Stooges 1973 show at Richard's in Atlanta! I don't know if RP has been remixed and/or remastered for this release or not...

Wow, does the Iggy mix sound different today, compared to 15 years ago.

My ears have gotten used to the sound of digital distortion and digital compression, I suppose? Most of the Iggy mix just sounds "good" to me right now-- aside from "Gimme Danger" where the drum fills are squashed beyond recognition

It does sound much more 'normal' and less exceptional, professional even, you're right, like MCR-style production applied to a 70s album. I'm not sure I'd exactly consider this good production though.

(The guitar solos on "Gimme Danger" are a mess too.)

If anything, I think this makes the Iggy mix seem less interesting than it used to.

(I like MCR despite the production, not because of it, to be clear.)

Yeah totally. I actually would love Bowie's mix fullstop had he not leaned so hard on te vocal fader. It's an album you can't turn up

Iggy's mix of Penetration is pretty much perfect

I can't think of any collection of recorded songs/material more poorly served in the engineering/production dept. The fact that there's no real master tapes, just everything on three tracks (vocals, lead guitar, and everything else) is such an insane mistake that there's really no way there will ever be a decent mix of this album. Both the Bowie mix *and* the Iggy mix suck - for different reasons - it's such a bummer.

I agree, but I much prefer the Bowie mix over the Iggy mix!

do people not rate the kevin gray mix?

I do too but it's a "lesser of two evils" situation

xp

i've been playing the heck out of this album the last couple days. i used to underrate it next to funhouse but i'm not even sure i don't prefer it now. funhouse is weirder and maybe more special, in the sense that i don't know of any other album that really sounds quite like it, but raw power does what it does pretty damn well.

it is a shame that there isn't one really satisfying version of the album. i do like the bowie mix, especially for how startlingly loud the lead guitar is mixed compared to everything else (it always jolts me when it suddenly appears at the beginning of "search and destroy"), but the quieter tracks like "i need somebody" and "penetration" sound really muffled to me.

iggy did a good job with those tracks, i think, but i just don't think his version is that fun to listen to all the way through. i wish someone would just take the best elements of both mixes and make a new version.

Isn't the problem that there's not much to mix? One track for vocals, one track for everything else?

iirc that is correct

sounds like a good day to break out my old Bowie-mix LP

Iggy mix, all the way

...the most absurd situation I encountered when I was recording was the first time I worked with Iggy Pop. He wanted me to mix Raw Power, so he brought the 24-track tape in, and he put it up. He had the band on one track, lead guitar on another and him on a third. Out of 24 tracks there were just three tracks that were used. He said 'see what you can do with this'. I said, 'Jim, there's nothing to mix'.

Oh well I like 'em both in different ways, and like to think that there's no definitive winnah, which is makes it/them even more of a subversive conjoined twin landmark. Anyway xgau:

Raw Power [Columbia/Legacy, 1997]
Strict constructionists and lo-fi snobs charge indignantly that by remixing his own album Iggy has made a mockery of history and done irreparable damage to a priceless work of art. This is really stupid. Before it was anointed the Platonic idea of rock and roll by desperate young men who didn't have much else to choose from, first-generation Iggyphiles charged just as indignantly that David Bowie had mixed the real thing way too thin--as Iggy observes, this classic-by-comparison always sounded "weedy" (although, not to insult a valued colleague, "David's" version was also "very creative"). So the pumped bass and vocals Iggy has uncovered on the original tapes, which were supposed to coexist with their high-end screech to begin with, are a quantum improvement. Plus you can finally hear the celeste on "Penetration"--sounds great! Only the slow ones, which like all of Iggy's slow ones are not as good as his fast ones, stand between a statement of principle and a priceless work of art. A-

I shouldn't have posted that, sorry, but since I did, here's what he said about the Bowie:
Raw Power [Columbia, 1973]
In which David Bowie remembers "the world's forgotten boy" long enough to sponsor an album--and mixes it down till it's thin as an epicure's wrist. The side-openers, "Search and Destroy" and "Raw Power," voice the Iggy Pop ethos more insanely (and aggressively) than "I Wanna Be Your Dog." But despite James Williamson's guitar, the rest disperses in their wake. B+

huh, apparently the iggy mix of raw power was remastered for vinyl in 2012 and the distortion (which is what makes his version such a tough listen imo) was removed. anyone heard that?

till it's thin as an epicure's wrist

...which must be... thin, I guess...?

I think the cd box version was 'tempered'

i have the 2LP (Iggy/Bowie mixes) Raw Power and it does sound less abrasive to me; there's still some audible clipping but it isn't as exhausting when played at the volumes i listen to that record at. Though tbh I listened to the CD on repeat a lot, too, despite the digital distortion.

yeah, the 2012 version of the "iggy mix" has less clipping and is overall way more listenable, i'd call that version the preferred one

Is it also on CD?

apparently not

I still love the Iggy mix, it probably is too exhausting to sit and listen to in headphones but when I first got the CD I didn't listen to music anywhere but my truck (with all the compromises that entails) so it has always felt like the perfect driving through the apocalypse soundtrack.

fwiw, the 2-track recording story isn't true, as demonstrated in the Raw Power doc from 2010 where Iggy pulls up individual tracks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioYuU9O9Ft8

Having just heard the Iggy mix for the first time, I feel like this is what it should've sounded like all along.