Ramones vs. AC/DC

I'm not sure you want to invite attempts to outstupid "lolz", but if it has to go there, it has to go there.

haha the sock made a funny

The funny thing is that when I was a teenager I used to say that Ramones was music for stupid people, much to the chagrin of some of my friends. OTOH, even Joey Ramone at his most catatonic could come up with something better than "lolz".

RE sock: see the above about "lolz".

you were funnier when you were making stuff up about the basic, mathematical standards of beauty underpinning all music

"Making up" stuff about the mathematical standards of music.... Hmmmm
So what you trying to tell me is that you're not stupid, just ignorant. Is that it?

pot::kettle

You mean the basic music theory has no mathematical foundations, is that it?

you mean that

no I mean that the basic mathematical underpinnings of music vary from one musical culture to the next

about the most accurate generalization you can make is that all music can be expressed mathematically. beyond that, there are no hard and fast rules that apply.

For me it's AC/DC, and always will be. I like the Ramones, and while I'll readily admit that I haven't heard nearly as much of their music as I have of AC/DC's, the songs I have heard tend to feel very samey. To be fair, I've only really heard the songs on the Ramones Mania compilation, but those are their hits and should be the very best the band has to offer, right? I honestly have trouble telling a lot of Ramones songs apart. To me, AC/DC's hits feel much more distinct, much less their album tracks. You would never mistake "TNT" for "Let There Be Rock," or "You Shook Me All Night Long" and "Thunderstruck."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_and_mathematics#Tuning_systems

(which you're probably skimming already)

Sorry OP for this slight detour, please carry on with the Ramones vs AC/DC thing

Ramones are smarter, funnier, more tragic, more versatile, with a broader range of reference-points and a better developed sense of iconography, plus I-IV-V pop hooks >>> 12 bar blues.

x-post

haha you fucking moron those are all for western music

or did you skip all the parts about just intonation and different scales and temperaments ad infinitum - like I was saying, just because music can be expressed mathematically does not mean that all music is based on the same principles.

Yeah, but if the songs all sound the same, none of that really matters, does it?

Western common practice music usually cannot be played in just intonation, even when it is confined to a single key.

I mean what does that tell you.

x-posts

Yellow flag, off-topic, lose 5 yards.

Yeah, but if the songs all sound the same, none of that really matters, does it?

arguing that AC/DCs songs DON'T all sound the same is a little "uh waht" to me. barring the odd bagpipe solo (lolz), every song has the exact same instrumentation, production style, lyrical themes (ie, fucking, with special attention given to double entendres), and interchangeable chord progressions, all falling within yr standard blues-rock tempos. Highway to Hell does sound a lot like TNT or If You Want Blood or any countless others.

really the only difference in AC/DC songs is the tempo and the hooks. And they are good at hooks I don't deny it. Ramones were better at it though.

I think this really does come down to me preferring I-IV-V pop progressions over 12-bar blues though.

wtf - 12-bar blues IS 1-4-5 !

I admit I am typin fast and not explainin myself well here... I guess I'm thinking more of the differences between major scales and blues scales (ie major vs. pentatonic)

haha in my high school band that was the difference between playing a pentatonic solo in key and playing it three frets down

shakey i like the ramones better too but you are treading on some thin hongro ice with this stuff!!!!!

I'm not trying to perpetuate the digression here, but Vision & Shakey Mo: If you haven't already, you should look into the book Temperament by Stuart Isacoff -- an examination of the evolotion of various Western and n0n-Western musical scales, the fundemental underpinning of mathematics (specifically of the Pythagorean strain, if I recall correctly) & other interesting things like the relationship between various scale modes and their influence on different forms of architecture. Etc. Not sure what all this has to do with AC/DC vs. The Ramones, as both are about as straight-ahead, no-frills 4/4 as you can get, but whatevs.

Your frantic and shakey internet crash course will not do, nor will your attempts to rephrase what you said. Western music has certain scales which we have grown used to. Other musical traditions can be read in terms of specific mathematical relations as well. You denied that, remember? That'd be a good subject for a thread actually (music theory).

Pillbox, it is a fantastic book, I know it, and since you mention it let me also refer to most of Charles Rosen's books, where this subject is mentioned with different degrees of depth. I really do stop here, sorry Pillbox.

arguing that AC/DCs songs DON'T all sound the same is a little "uh waht" to me. barring the odd bagpipe solo (lolz), every song has the exact same instrumentation, production style, lyrical themes (ie, fucking, with special attention given to double entendres), and interchangeable chord progressions, all falling within yr standard blues-rock tempos. Highway to Hell does sound a lot like TNT or If You Want Blood or any countless others.

are you serious? this could easily be used as ammunition against the ramones as well. they have hundreds of songs that sound virtually identical by the same standards you are using.

how bout i just split the difference with motorhead

I heart Motorhead (I even named my hamster Lemmy), but AC/DC are one of the few bands that have managed to consistently stay in my top 10 all time favorites.

I gotta give AC/DC the edge for their rhythm section. Both rhythm sections swing, but AC/DC's swings juuuuust a little wider and deeper.

I don't care about chords, keys, scales, whatever. AC/DC just sounds better to my ears, especially after the first Ramones album, after which they got a little weedy.

i like the 2nd and 3rd ramones albums better than the first one, really. i get why the first one is iconic, but leave home and rocket to russia have more of my favorite ramones songs on them. i also like their pop period, from road to ruin thru pleasant dreams. and too tough to die. and "bonzo goes to bitburg"! also the ramones created a whole weird goony world that i think is different from anything ac/dc ever achieved. (no knock on ac/dc, i love 'em.) so basically, yeah, i just like the ramones more.

The 2nd and 3rd albums are certainly not weedy, if anything they're more powerful (if not necessarily better) than the 1st

a harder call for me would be angus and malcolm vs. johnny.

I have the "Weird Tales" 3CD/1DVD set: For all that the first (four?) Lps are more represented, each following LP has three tracks from it included, and I can't tell any massive drop in quality anywhere...

"if anything they're more powerful (if not necessarily better) than the 1st"

I totally disagree with this. They sound significantly weaker.

Western music has certain scales which we have grown used to. Other musical traditions can be read in terms of specific mathematical relations as well. You denied that, remember?

no that isn't what I said at all. thanks for playing.

Ramones win easily for me. I like AC/DC pretty well (though I only own Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap and Back in Black), but it seems to me that the Ramones create a world, whereas AC/DC trod a familiar path - though perhaps with more energy and wit than most.

Since Motorhead was mentioned...

TS: Ramones vs. AC/DC vs Motorhead

Which bands owe their existence to the Ramones; not just inspiration but reason for being?

I can think of um... screeching weasel.

For AC/DC I can think of... um... AC/DShe.

Help me out here.

Ramones - the Sex Pistols, the Clash, the Buzzcocks, Green Day, Rancid, blahblahblah

the Damned, the Descendents, the Germs, the Circle Jerks, etc etc

I thought Rancid were descended from the Clash. I think you'd have to disbar 2nd order derivatives or there'd be a financial-style meltdown.

Were the Buzzcocks at the same "this changes everything" Ramones show that the pistols and the clash were at?

No one has any bands for the AC/DC column?

Also, if there isn't an obvious sonic similarity, can you post the part in a band's origin story that explains the Ramones or AC/DC paternity? There was that bit from the Ramones documentary that shows how most of the fans that had their faces blown off at a UK Ramones show decided as a result to form bands, and that they beat up johnny rotten or something.

For AC/DC I can think of... um... AC/DShe.

Interesting that the video starts off w/ "Bad Reputation" on the jukebox, a song as Ramones-indebted as they come.

Ramones UK paternity = July 4 1976 show at the Roundhouse = the Damned, the Clash, and the Pistols, all of whom either met the band around the same time or were at the actual show. Lemmy also met them later that year.

oh and how could I forget, Bad Brains!

I don't really care about AC/DC's lineage, someone else will have to do the research on that one.

It should probably be pointed out somewhere in here that AC/DC can still sell 800,000 records first week, so they have, you know, longevity on their side. Obviously, the Ramones can't really put out any more albums, but would they be able to sell as many units? Probably not.

Also, isn't "Back in Black" like the third best-selling album of all time, or some crazy shit. Not that I'm arguing against the wider range of Ramones influence, but that's gotta count for something.

Yeah, I usually don't point at album sales as a marker of quality, but it seems like a lot of people like them, and have so consistently for their entire career.

I'm not sure the Ramones were ever on the same commercial plane as AC/DC. Did the soundtrack to Pet Sematary ever go platinum?
Probably got schooled by Maximum Overdrive. In the battle of Stephen King movie soundtracks, AC/DC wins for sure.

In terms of longevity, I think t-shirts sales at hot topic will attest to the staying power of the Ramones...

AC/DC!!

ANTI CHRIST DEVIL'S CHILD \m/

ramones because ac/dc were fucking terrible

no way dogg

yeah, no. i like this poll cuz there's no wrong answer.

Ramones without a doubt, although these days I'm content enough to mainly stick to their first few albums rather than wade through their 80s/90s output (which is totally worth doing for anyone that's not done it before though, there's plenty of gems in amongst the more average-y stuff).

None of that is meant to argue against the fact that AD/DC are also pretty great obv.

both these bands are great!

AC/DC by a long shot.

I'm a bit too old for AC/DC to have been a part of my youth, although I like a few songs. Ramones were a huge life-changer.

daft question because these are obviously the only two rock bands worth listening to

maybe thin lizzy too but yeah

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3nEAmt5AZ8

fucking hell forgot about sabbath going to bed now night ilx love you xx

um Motörhead too

Thin Lizzy v. CCR would tough.

*be*

both great but CCR's insane short period of genius is one of the great accomplishment of rock n roll

I've tried to get into Motorhead and Thin Lizzy, but so far they haven't really clicked beyond the most obvious songs/albums (same with Deep Purple). Whereas as far as my listening habits go, AC/DC and Ramones remain a satisfyingly monolithic body of work.

CCR rulesl, but they're a different kind of band.

i pull pints in a corporate bar and we have both motorhead and metallica beers on tap. ac/dc would never sell out to craft beer fuckery.

AC/DC's wine range launched in 2011 (and STILL doesn't have a Whole Lotta Rosé)

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2011/SHOWBIZ/Music/08/17/ac.dc.the.wine/t1larg.acdc.wine.jpg

Their lager came out from Karlsberg in 2015

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1219/4344/products/acdc_rock_or_bust_1024x.jpg

so technically true I guess

"High Voltage" energy drink, 2013

http://blog.metal-and-wine.com/wp-content/uploads/blog_acdc_high-voltage.jpg

mid-strength pre-mix bourbon & cola, 2016

http://assets.blabbermouth.net.s3.amazonaws.com/media/acdcbourbon1.jpg

Still no best-of album though, right?

Not officially, but there is Who Made Who and the Iron Man 2 soundtrack.

well i'll be fucked

add böc to the list of “only rock bands worth listening to” you cowards

If we try hard, we can get the list up to four or five.

BOC is the cutoff. No more rock bands worth listening to.

glad we can find some middle ground on this pressing matter.

BOC def

both great but CCR's insane short period of genius is one of the great accomplishment of rock n roll

I agree, CCR is the <3 and I would vote for them over Thin Lizzy, but there are moments where Phil Lynott’s voice just gets me in a way that Fogerty can’t (and never really tries to).

Those two bands have two of my favorite rhythm sections: so tough, but still lithe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1PfIX-GQPk

shit the actual bed