Twin Peaks: Classic or Dud?

that milk'll cool down on you, but it's getting warmer now!

i think there was a conscious effort to change the personalities around in season 2. most obviously with ben and nadine but also significantly with the major and albert. the major's speech was incredible but i thought albert's speech was just inserted for laughs.

I think the whole scene shows that even as albert says that stuff he is angry. He even sort of loosens his rough grip on truman's shoulder as he speaks and dusts him down. It's like he has to remind himself of his values or something! I didn't find it out of character at all, coop acts like he had faith in albert all along afterwards too.

That's funny btw roxy, I think albert is close to my favourite!

http://media.avclub.com/images/articles/article/40849/twin-peaks_M_jpg_595x325_crop_upscale_q85.jpg

Nice feature (& screen-grab!) on ep. 3 in the AV Club today: http://www.avclub.com/articles/twin-peaks-zen-or-the-skill-to-catch-a-killer,40849/

Twin Beaks lol

"dark mood woods" theme that runs throughout the final episode is the best in entire series

this new shitty show happy town is trying very very hard to be twin peaks and failing, awfully

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3IZS2QddAY

five stars

words fail

nice one

I wonder if that could convince my fiancé to watch Twin Peaks. Let's watch & see!

Nice little interview with Lynch, McLachlan and Mark Frost.

"We're planning a prequel spin-off series with Dr Jacobi, and it's set in Hawaii," says Frost. Added Lynch, "It's going to be very different than Twin Peaks but we've been doing research on proper Luau cooking. It's important these things right."

"Sorry, I meant to say 'it's important to get these things right'" said Lynch. "You need to lay off the coffee David," joked MacLachlan.

I remember liking FWWM because it gave the viewer more room to interpret "Bob" as a persona imagined by Laura to shield her from the psychological damage of her daddy abusing her, instead of the evil spirit explanation which I always found kinda silly and unnecessarily Manichean. (See my point upthread about externalizing evil.)

― Tuomas, Wednesday, April 18, 2007 4:11 PM Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
But I haven't seen it ever since I was teen, should probably rewatch it.

― Tuomas, Wednesday, April 18, 2007 4:12 PM Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
I don't have a problem with the externalized evil thing - its still something that is given power by the consent of the inhabiting individual (see Leland's death speech). Plus the abstract/pagan "evil in the woods" is a very classically American trope (cf. Hawthorne)

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, April 18, 2007 4:21 PM Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

it gave the viewer more room to interpret "Bob" as a persona imagined by Laura to shield her from the psychological damage of her daddy abusing her, instead of the evil spirit

yeah, but the series kind of blows that deal from the get go, I guess as soon as Sarah sees Bob, and then Coop's dream. I don't know how spoilery this thread is already but you know who Bob is possessing at the end of the series, right? I guess I don't see how the series would work without the whole Black Lodge thing.

― marmotwolof, Wednesday, April 18, 2007 4:37 PM Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
I like how Tuomas cannot abide anything supernatural/spiritual in any form, even if its in a fuckin artsy TV show.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, April 18, 2007 4:54 PM Bookmark

I just got through the episode where Leland dies. I actually think the show is very open to the reading of Bob as a persona Laura invents to deal with being molested by her father -- not in the most literal sense where every supernatural thing in the show directly matches up to a non-supernatural explanation, but in a very strong, metaphorical sort of way to the point that I don't think the show can resist that interpretation.

There's the fact that the relationship with 'Bob' has been going on since her childhood. The mother is the classic willfully ignorant enabler - she asks over and over again "what is going on in this house?" and in the Maddy murder scene she is lying passed out on the floor right there in the living room. And by the way, that also explains why the wife can "see" Bob.

In his confession scene Leland describes how he let Bob go "inside" him - a pretty clear double entendre that can be read to mean Leland was himself molested as a child, as is the pattern with child molesters

I think someone upthread criticized the 'conservative' attitude of the show that promiscuity is caused by molestation. But in fact children who are molested frequently seek out excessive sexual attention - this doesn't imply that all or most promiscuity is a sign of molestation, just that molested children often act out in that way - especially the stuff about looking for controlling, domineering men.

At the funeral for Laura, Bobby yells at the funeralgoers about what hypocrites they were and how they all did nothing to help Laura, and this seems to be another theme of the show - the close-knit community that looks the other way while abuse is going on.

The dreams and the supernatural elements can all be read partly as ways of dealing with the horror - Agent Cooper practically spells this out when, iirc, the sheriff says he finds all the supernatural stuff too hard to get his mind around and Cooper says something like "Is it any easier to believe that a man would rape and murder his own daughter?"

that's a very smart and persuasive interpretation. although i think there is more evidence that the show leaned harder on the "bob as malevolent inhabiting spirit" side of things -- the fact that one-armed man, etc. can "see" him, and of course all of the stuff in the black lodge in the last few episodes. that doesn't vitiate the metaphorical power of this narrative thread, but it does mean that the filmmakers also wanted to indulge the supernatural take as well in ways that aren't always congruent with the metaphor.

The dreams and the supernatural elements can all be read partly as ways of dealing with the horror - Agent Cooper practically spells this out when, iirc, the sheriff says he finds all the supernatural stuff too hard to get his mind around and Cooper says something like "Is it any easier to believe that a man would rape and murder his own daughter?"

this moment always struck me as positioned very delicately between too on-the-nose and, well, a perfect encapsulation of what the show is up to.

yeah felt the same way about that moment

I just got through the episode where Leland dies. I actually think the show is very open to the reading of Bob as a persona Laura invents to deal with being molested by her father -- not in the most literal sense where every supernatural thing in the show directly matches up to a non-supernatural explanation, but in a very strong, metaphorical sort of way to the point that I don't think the show can resist that interpretation.

There's the fact that the relationship with 'Bob' has been going on since her childhood. The mother is the classic willfully ignorant enabler - she asks over and over again "what is going on in this house?" and in the Maddy murder scene she is lying passed out on the floor right there in the living room. And by the way, that also explains why the wife can "see" Bob.

This ie exactly why I was criticizing the second half of Season 2 upthread. If you just watch TP up until the episode in which Leland dies, and watch FWM after that, it's pretty easy to interpret Bob as a persona Laura and/or Leland created to justify the horrible things he did. Sure there are some inconsistenties with that theory (mostly, Mike knowing Bob and Agent Cooper seeing him in his dreams), but on a thematical level it works. But after Leland's death the theme of evil spirits and forces of good vs. forces of evil becomes much more prominent, and it's much harder to reconcile that with the psychological explanation.

In his confession scene Leland describes how he let Bob go "inside" him - a pretty clear double entendre that can be read to mean Leland was himself molested as a child, as is the pattern with child molesters.

It's been a while since I saw the episode, but IIRC Leland's confession before death was pretty ambiguous. If Bob is indeed an evil spirit who possessed him, he shouldn't be held accountable for what he did to Laura. But he seemed to think he was both responsible for happened and that things beyond his control were also involved. This would fit quite well with Leland being a victim of molestation himself; it's not his fault he became such a fucked-up person, but he's still accountable for the fucked-up things he did.

Also, Leland being a victim would provide an alternative interpretation to the scene where he sees the police drawing of Bob, and recognizes him as someone he knew in his childhood. Maybe Bob was the actual person who molested Leland as a kid? Then, when Leland became a molester himself, it would make sense that he developed "Bob" as the persona who does all the bad things, as he feels it's the original Bob's fault that he turned out to be so crazy. Bob being a real person might also explain why Mike the one-armed man knows about him... Maybe Mike knew what Bob did to Leland (maybe he was another one of Bob's victims? he appears to be about the same age as Leland), and he suspects Bob "inserted" his evil into Leland (i.e. fucked him up psychologically), a suspicion that is confirmed by Laura's death.

Yeah, having watched the next episode this evening I see what you mean and it is a bit disappointing. Maybe it's almost as though the show is saying "No, you, audience, can't handle the idea that a father would do this to his own daughter without supernatural cause"

one of the most unique shows i've ever watched, next to buffy (and i would've said lost if that wasn't the worlds greatest cop-out, the ending and the revelations of...........nothing). admittedly it gets a little tedious during the 2nd season, and i have come to hate the ending despite initially liking it.

mark frost's books suck, sadly

"...folded in half, he began to read it."

now that its fall, rewatching peaks again

First day of unemployment, think rewatching this is mandatory.

For Britishers with SKY the Horror Channel is showing both seasons from 9pm every Monday starting tonight

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/8812/fwwmmontage.jpg

http://dugpa.com/2010/11/09/exclusive-photos-from-the-psych-twin-peaks-tribute-episode-dual-spires-airing-december-1st-on-usa-network/

^^ OK, seeing Bobby Briggs all Ted Danson-ed out w/ a full head of gray hair just made me feel really old.

Now Audrey Horne on the other hand..

she looks like she's had one cosmetic procedure too many tbh

Just watched Season 2 up to episode 14 in the Gold Box set. It seems like even in the early part of the season, they were struggling to give James and Donna something to do. The whole Harold Smith thing was just peculiar, but not in a good way, and then it just abruptly fizzled out. Catherine disguising herself as an unconvincing Japanese businessman was something of a WTF moment, especially as I guessed it had to be her pretty much straight away, and then spent the next couple of episodes wondering why anyone would be taken in by such an obviously phony performance.

Maddie's death is really shocking, isn't it? Especially as up to then, the series had largely skirted around the more violent stuff(pulling back from showing Leo hitting Shelley, for instance). I do wonder how that got past the network censors.

One thing I'm really glad about is that they didn't overuse Bob, as I think his power comes from the fact that his appearances are relatively few(he only crops up twice in Season 1, and very fleetingly), but it's like his shadow lingers over the whole series. Twin Peaks and FWWM were Frank Silva's only screen acting work I believe? It's remarkable how an actor could come out of nowhere and have that extraordinary presence.

I agree with whoever said the pacing of events is a little strange. I was totally confused about when Andy and Lucy were supposed to've broken up, when there was seemingly no intervening time for them to've spent apart - suddenly out of nowhere she's dating someone else, when the duration of the series was less than two weeks at that point!

Just mentally preparing myself for the mid-season slump now. I guess it couldn't be as bad as Heroes got though, could it?

It's weird because, compared to season 1, the mid part of season 2 is complete shit, just ridiculous soap opera plots that you don't care about fading in and out of focus. But you really can't help but watch them, and they have some great moments in them, and the way the entire series is tied together with the standout episodes (including the last - and best) it's all pretty invaluable.

I really hope you haven't seen the last episode, it will knock your socks off!

Harold hanging himself isn't reaaallly what I'd qualify as 'fizzling out.'
More annoying: the mysterious kid who lives NEXT DOOR to Harold.

also good to remember that season one was a lot shorter than season too, right? don't have the numbers in front of me, but iirc it's not an insignificant difference.

season too??? go to bed ian.

Yeah season one is like half dozen shows, season two is like over 2 dozen.

Season two more like 3 dozen iirc. Season 2 pretty lame in parts imo,with some amazing eps. Season one all killer no filler.

Did anyone watch the Psych episode that was a Twin Peaks tribute? Pretty fun, and I dont really watch Psych hardly at all. Julee Cruise reworked their theme song, reunited Audrey, Laura Palmer, Bobby.. the whole episode was kind of a vague reworked version of the pilot (with lols etc). Worth checking out!

did you watch the documentary that comes w/ the movie dvd

― cool app (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Saturday, December 27, 2008 9:26 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark

Yessss! Amazing stuff. Every time they show another actor you can't help but imagine they are the character. They all seem like suitably/entertainingly weird people!

i missed this, will have to find it online. log lady looks exactly the same! how????

if you don't like the stupid soap opera parts in s2 you don't like twin peaks imo

yeah, i agree— those parts are kind of what makes the series so...strange, to me. i think the only thing i hated altogether was the James/mysterious woman plotline. (i mean, it was nice seeing him all half-naked, but_.....)

other than that, tho, i love the second season as much as the first.

i've seen this whole series like 5 times, too. i'm a huge stan for the second season.

Twin Peaks and FWWM were Frank Silva's only screen acting work I believe? It's remarkable how an actor could come out of nowhere and have that extraordinary presence.

You know he's not actually an actor, right?

http://rootstrata.com/rootblog/?p=4367

Wasn't he a soundguy or something and Lynch saw him on set and was like "hey he looks cool let's work him in"?

Yeah, and he died of AIDS a couple of years after Twin Peaks, IIRC.

yeah, he was a stagehand or something - IIRC he was accidentally caught in frame in a mirror for a second, and Lynch didn't notice until viewing rushes, then said "hey, looks spooky, let's go with that"

IMDb says:

A native of central California, Frank Silva majored in theater at San Francisco State University where he received a master's degree in light design. He worked with director David Lynch on several of his movies (Dune, Blue Velvet, Wild at Heart) as a prop master and set decorator. While Silva was working on fixing up the set for the character Laura Palmer's bedroom in the pilot episode for Twin Peaks, Lynch decided that Silva should be Bob after accidentally filming him in a reflection in a mirror which this long-haired, prematurely gray man gave Lynch himself a jolt because of his sudden frightening appearance.

That foot-of-the-bed shot is some horrifying, iconic work there. No way anything in Season 2 gets anywhere near that level of subconscious-jolting strangeness. ** SPOILER ALERT ** (Until Evil Laura begins running around screaming bloody murder, that is...)

I dont care for Wyndam Earl or whatever, either. Tbh Mr Horne's turn to Civil War-embracing insanity is my favorite bit about the S2 lull, barring the Lynch guest spots of course. I love how he just has to yell everything for some reason. So absurd. James/Mystery Woman = dud, tho.