ILX0RS: JAZZ IS THE TEACHER. YEAH, IT'S A JAZZ THING >> THE ILM JAZZ LISTENING CLUB! [NEW CHOICES EVERY WEDNESDAY!]

Kind of feel you on the Birth of the Cool. I like it quite a bit, but it's never struck me as the masterpiece that some claim it is. You might've had to be there - in the context of bebop, it probably sounded way more innovative than it does today. Still, a nice sound/band -- some great tonal things going on there, kind of a light, airy feel that you can't find a lot of other places. Like big band harmonies stripped down to a small(er) band format. I guess Gerry Mulligan's 50s stuff is the closest to this really.

Re: the Coltrane/Ellington, listened today ... I think the ballads work best, "Sentimental Mood" and "Little Brown Book." Got me thinking about the missed opportunities though ... Trane could've recorded "Africa" with Ellington band! Or something ...

I'm defo in!

in my 'experience' - working in a big jazz rec dept for 3 years - BIRTH OF THE COOL puts more 'newcomers' off jazz than just abt any other rec - the recording, arrangements, even the playing just sound TOO dated now - def. not something I wld rec to ppl as a starting point for miles, or jazz

yeah, it's hard to quibble against that ellington/coltrane versh of 'in a sentimental mood' - and it's interesting to hear that hodges rated it, cos of course he was prob number one influence on trane (and hodges also always struck me as a hard-to-please kinda guy) - but the rest of the alb isn't all that tbh, and (w/ the exception of the johnny hartman collab) i wld rate all of coltrane's impulse albs above this one

this is one of my fave 'ironic' alb titles

http://www.incusrecords.force9.co.uk/images/cd3/incusCD25-sentimental-mood.jpg

point/counterpoint

I listen to Birth Of The Cool more than any Miles album, except maybe Get Up With It. While it certainly doesn't have the weight of Kind Of Blue (or the over exposure-cum-pop-appeal of So What) it's important as it inspired the West Coast jazz sound.

BIRTH OF THE COOL puts more 'newcomers' off jazz than just abt any other rec

But I have a soft spot for some of the be-bop inspired stuff from this period.

Also Jeru, Moon Dreams, Boplicity as beautiful - in a Cosby Show kind of way

are beautiful

actually, Boplicity is not that beautiful.

should we say:

pfunk: 30 April
a hoy hoy: 7 May
local garda: 14 May
tannenbaum: 21 May

anyone else want to curate a week?

i don't mean it puts ppl off cos it's 'some crazy Art Ensemble of Chicago stuff' (whatever that means), i mean it puts ppl off cos it sounds OLD and BORING and SAFE and UNEXCITING, especially to jazz newcomers whose listening/hearing has been conditioned by rock music/dance music - recs like GET UP WITH IT, or even A JACKSON IN YOUR HOUSE, are actually much approachable/understandable to ppl under the age of 40, imho, than 'classic' bebop or cool jazz or west coast jazz or whatevs

I see what you're saying, but I wasn't comparing Birth Of The Cool to "crazy" Art Ens. of C material; I meant it was some way removed from that strain of jazz.

I'll admit that the passing of time probably has made the west count sound and be-bop seem like cheesy shit to modern ears attuned to rock/dance (although hiphop fans should find enough breaks in hard-bop to dig it).

So, not trying to dissuade you from your opinion and Art Ens. Of C's "Theme De Yoyo" is as good an example of an accesible entry point for rock/dance/funk fans into some searing, going-straight-for-the-jugular jazz as there probably is.

Also, Ward you should curate a week.

would love to, ty!

cool, you can do 21 May

pfunk: 30 April
a hoy hoy: 7 May
local garda: 14 May
ward fowler: 21 May
tannenbaum: 28 May

where's xyzzzzzzzzz he needs to do it too

I remember not liking Birth of the Cool when I first heard it years ago for the reasons mentioned above (recording quality, "corniness"). Now I hear it as a response to both big band swing and bebop, and having that historical context has made it more enjoyable. I think it would have been better with more Gil Evans arrangements.

The ballads on the Ellington/Coltrane are beautiful, but overall it feels kind of under-developed. Some of Money Jungle strikes me the same way. Of the Ellington collaborations I've heard from this period, I'm more likely to put on the one with Louis Armstrong.

listened to Birth of the Cool this morning, and it sounded great -- I take it back! Total masterpiece. (I think it rewards closer listening ... having it on in the background, it sounds ... like background music. But on the headphones this morning it sounded pretty deep and rich.)
What makes Money Jungle way better than the Coltrane/Ellington collab is the *tension*. Mingus sounds like he really doesn't want to let Duke cruise on that recording. On the Coltrane record it sounds like everyone got along and chilled. And made a decent, if not fantastic, record.
(i'd do a week of this too ...)

learn yr dates, jazzxors:

pfunk: 30 April
a hoy hoy: 7 May
local garda: 14 May
ward fowler: 21 May
Cave17Matt: 28 May
Nom Nom Nom Chomsky (WmC): 4 June
tylerw: 11 June
tannenbaum: 18 June

i'll keep bumping myself down if more want to curate a week

I hope my selections aren't too mainstream!

I'm always up for following you Tannenbaum , happy to have as many turns as possible.

Nah, I'm keen to be exposed to other stuff/choices.

Also, would like to ask for just 2 choices per week so I can also take in the funk, brazilian and rap threads going on.

But he gave me permission to do 3!

wtf shitting on birth of the cool

Nom Nom Nom Chomsky (WmC): 4 June

Hey cool, I just meant I'd participate in that I'd listen and post on the records, but I'm excited to curate a week as well. I thought about asking but didn't want to barge in.

I was agnostic on Birth of the Cool for years in basically the same way as stated above. But I listened to it yesterday for this thread and really loved it. "Moon Dreams" is particularly lovely.

Also, thank you MumblestheRevelator: I've been meaning to check out the Coltrane/Hartman album for ages and this prompted me to do it finally.

birth of the cool would scare newcomers to jazz away? really? that's sad. and strange.

i already made fun of the cover, but, man, that ben neil track above is funny because it actually SOUNDS like the cover. i would have thought that impossible. apologies to ben, but my first reaction to his track was: i really wouldn't want anyone to hear me listening to this. so, don't really want to hear the rest.

i wish i had that ellington/coltrane album here right now. i could go for that.

That Monk album of Ellington covers is great, but I'm a sucker for ironic piano standards.

Ben Neill: its certainly of its time with the drum'n'bass thing half way through.

its not my thing

what does Neill's version of "After the Gold Rush" sound like?!

just to clarify - BIRTH OF THE COOL is great! lee konitz is great! gil evans is great! gerry mulligan is great! it's just that, in my experience, the title and cover image are slightly misleading - i think ppl think it will sound much more like KIND OF BLUE...or LIFT TO THE SCAFFOLD...or even CHET by chet baker... y'know, smokey moody midnight jazzy - and so they struggle to get to grips w/ a style/sound that is now 60 years old. i prob sold at least a copy a day of BIRTH OF THE COOL, back when i was working in that big jazz rec, and i'd say 50% of the time, ppl brought it straight back. their loss, sure, but it happened enough times to tell me that it's not a gd 'first jazz alb' kinda pick

oh man, we gotta have 3 choices - and i really hope scott schools us one week...

big jazz rec shop

That Monk album of Ellington covers is great

^ co-sign

Big jazz record shop - so jealous. Only ever have been to Mole Jazz. Decent prices (for London).

think mole left their premises in kings x and moved into a classical rec shop in soho (the name of which escapes me for the moment), but are prob out of business now - as you say, it was a gd place to crate dig. rays jazz are still hanging on in foyles.

i've got the ellington/monk disc on this great cheapo set

http://www.avidgroup.co.uk/acatalog/info_AMSC964.html

but haven't spun it yet - this thread is encouraging me to do so, so it's paying of already hurrah

I think I've finally decided my picks for next week, man it was so hard trying to pick only 3!

that ben neill track upthread does not sound like jazz to me. more like some dj job of kruder & dorfmeister with a dash of fusion in it or something. it is not bad but definitely not a classic jazz album. i never got into birth of the cool neither. have to give it another try. i don't know that ellington/coltrane cooperation at all.

[Hey cool, I just meant I'd participate in that I'd listen and post on the records, but I'm excited to curate a week as well. I thought about asking but didn't want to barge in.

This was me too, but as I said if my choices aren't too mainstream I'm totally up for curating a week!

Wouldn't worry as to whether its too mainstream or not. Jazz has gone to all sorts of places so it will be good to hear what people are going to come up with.

think mole left their premises in kings x and moved into a classical rec shop in soho (the name of which escapes me for the moment), but are prob out of business now - as you say, it was a gd place to crate dig. rays jazz are still hanging on in foyles.

Harold Moores - and yes Mole moved out of there a long while back. Scored a second hand copy of Cecil Taylor's Jazz Composers Orchestra LP on my last visit. Really sad.

this coltrane/duke is v. pretty

as with all of Coltrane's Impulse stuff, the recording quality is gorgeous ... perfect sound.

Spotify really is brilliant for jazz

that ben neill track upthread does not sound like jazz to me. more like some dj job of kruder & dorfmeister with a dash of fusion in it or something. it is not bad but definitely not a classic jazz album. i never got into birth of the cool neither. have to give it another try. i don't know that ellington/coltrane cooperation at all.

― alex in mainhattan, Saturday, 24 April 2010 06:50 (10 hours ago) Bookmark

Do Cab Calloway singing "Minnie The Moocher" and Mile Davis' On The Corner LP really both count as Jazz? On The Corner is essentially a weird funk album played by an amazing Jazz man. Minnie The Moocher was some song from a cartoon with a catchy call and response chorus.

Ben Neill will never be considered a classic jazz album, because it simply isn't (strong enough). Its more a mutation or (I don't want to use this word but I've seen it labelled as) future-jazz.

I wanted to see how it would resound with jazzxors

Wouldn't worry as to whether its too mainstream or not. Jazz has gone to all sorts of places so it will be good to hear what people are going to come up with.

― xyzzzz__, Saturday, 24 April 2010 09:39 (7 hours ago) Bookmark

Ben Neill's roots are notably Miles Davis and Jon Hassell, but he’s staked out his own terrain in the sonic landscape, mixing fractured jungle loops under his free-form improvisations. So how Jazz is it?

Perhaps we can - in later weeks - talk about what counts as "Jazz" since the mid 1980s (post jazz-funk, fusion, disco and following the emergence of hip-hop and house music as the dominant non-rock genres for the next 15 years).

And is the genre still evolving or do permutations that utilise only a fraction of more recognised Jazz signifers get side-lined as fusion or something else? What are the essential, amazing, classic Jazz recordings since 1985 for example? Again hopefully we can cover some of this in later weeks.

-----

I chose Ellington/Coltrane chosen for this week because, whilst it wouldn't again doesn't feature in most Top 50 jazz albums you must have lists, it has a great mood throughout and is an intro to 2 giants. And I love this recording of In A Sentimental Mood so very much.

Plus I like how Coltrane's solos are concise, but you can sense he wants to do more. Hopefully in coming weeks we'll get some avant/free Impulse label Coltrane - shit that's ear splitting / mind melting and complex. (Recordings that noise fans will find much favour with).

BIRTH OF THE COOL is this week's CLASSIC JAZZ recording.

And someone asked about needing to have 3 albums per week. Yeah go for it.

if you ask me, on the corner is STILL "future jazz". i don't know what that ben neill track is. a bad idea?

"Perhaps we can - in later weeks - talk about what counts as "Jazz" since the mid 1980s"

jazz does. count as jazz since the mid 80's. there's still lots of it around.

I'd like to do a week sometime. I like this listening club idea.

Sparkle Motion, your choices due as per:

pfunk: 30 April
a hoy hoy: 7 May
local garda: 14 May
ward fowler: 21 May
Cave17Matt: 28 May
Nom Nom Nom Chomsky (WmC): 4 June
tylerw: 11 June
Sparkle Motion: 18 June
tannenbaum: 25 June

Scott, I'd like to get schooled in what Jazz is worth listening to since mid-80s. I know there's lots of it still around 'cos I see it live and its great: Ken Vandermark, Sun Ra Arkestra, Matthew Shipp, Steve Reid, even Portico Quartet and Seb Roachford/Polar Bear/Fulbourn Teversham (the last 3 I still need to check out) but any pointers to albums would be greatly appreciated.

yeah, i'm kinda trad though. you'd probably be bored. i was raised trad. my dad was so excited to get the new tom harrell album that just came out. he might not have bought it the DAY it came out, but pretty close.

now playing: chico freeman - tradition in transition (elektra - 1982)

my kinda 80's album, i guess. i love chico. and he's got wallace roney, cecil mcbee, jack dejohnette, and billy hart playing with him. but, again, i was raised on this stuff. it's really only been in the last decade that i have started getting down with the experimental/out/free guys. well, jazz guys. in other genres, i have been getting down with them forever.

Cool. I'm looking forward to it. I hate to say it, but I'm also looking forward to the end of this Ben Neill album. I'll have some actual commentary a bit later, but for now, add me to the camp that calls this Not Jazz.

I think we will move to 1 album per week, see if that stimulates more chat.

I remember back in my days as a high school "radio station" "dj" we had that Byrd record floating around. I think my hip-hop-loving friend was also into it because of some sample on it. At the time I was sort of still sorting things out and categorizing things and being kind of uptight and purist, and I didn't really know what basket to put the record in, so I wasn't so keen on it. Would be curious to give it another chance.

I think we will move to 1 album per week, see if that stimulates more chat.

Fair enough. Since we've still some time before next week, why don't we limit my above selection to just the Pinski Zoo? Am interested in hearing other impressions.

no no thats ok. your picks are fine. Hopefully there will be some discussion

i still need to listen, anyone else play them?

Hank Mobley - Soul Station (1960)
https://www.ifmusic.co.uk/images/product_images/HankMobley-SoulStation.jpg

http://open.spotify.com/album/6LgMSHDA0nBRV9Vlgy8j5r

Often overlooked, perhaps because he wasn't a great innovator in jazz but merely a stellar performer, tenor saxophonist Hank Mobley was at the peak of his powers on Soul Station. Recorded with a superstar quartet including Art Blakey on drums, Paul Chambers on bass, and Wynton Kelly on piano, it was the first album since Mobley's 1955 debut to feature him as a leader without any other accompanying horns. The clean, uncomplicated sound that resulted from that grouping helps make it the best among his albums and a peak moment during a particularly strong period in his career. Mobley has no problem running the show here, and he does it without being flashy or burying the strong work of his sidemen. The solidness of his technique means that he can handle material that is occasionally rhythmically intricate, while still maintaining the kind of easy roundness and warmth displayed by the best players of the swing era. Two carefully chosen standards, "Remember" and "If I Should Lose You," help to reinforce that impression by casting an eye back to the classic jazz era. They bookend four Mobley originals that, in contrast, reflect the best of small-group composition with their lightness and tight dynamics. Overall, this is a stellar set from one of the more underrated musicians of the bop era.

I left this out the last time i took a turn so here it is. Enjoy!

Like that album a lot. If you enjoy it I also recommend checking out No Room for Squares

Great album...the only Mobley I own so far. Curious to hear more. Gonna give it some more spins tonight and tomorrow now.

Btw, my copy has more of a green-blue sepia tone. Any story with the subtle variations of the cover?

i have no idea

Blakey's solo on This I Dig Of You owns. (What a great song title, btw!)

Mtume - Alkebu-Lan (Land of the Blacks)

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/3602/218/1600/alke_front.jpg

Heavy shit, cats! Dig!

Nothing Is' description

Listen

messed up the image link somehow, let's try again

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/3602/218/1600/alke_front.jpg

Recorded August 29, 1971 at The East, New York. According to Jim Flannery of the Kozmigroove Mailing List, it's "Pretty damn wild...AACM goes to Africa... but I guess I'd have to add 'Pharoahs go to Saturn' to get the picture complete. Starts out with a four-minute speech describing the role of 'these jams' in the service of Black Nationalism... and then backs it up. Cover is black with white line-drawing of a sorta Egyptian-meets-subSaharan figure (Pharoanic beard, pyramids for eyes, goat amulet), back side has an eye-in-pyramid drawing with photo of Mtume leaning against it." Having finally heard this record finally, I love it. While it's certainly dated, it's a fascinating glimpse of the marriage of early 1970s Afro-centric music, politics and spirituality, plus it really grooves. To me reminiscent of Bartz' Ntu Group work, it's more energetic and colorful than those records. A treasure: Strata-East was an extraordinary label.

-Ian Scott Horst: Jazz Supreme

looks like img tags ain't working for me

Awfully quiet here of late. My turn?

Let's go with the record I am listening to for the first time, right now:
Pharoah Sanders Tauhid(1966)
http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drc400/c486/c486189tn40.jpg

Tauhid marks the 1966 Impulse debut of tenor saxophonist Pharoah Sanders, who had already gained fame as a flame-throwing saxophonist of the "new thing" playing with John Coltrane. However, Sanders' tenor appearance doesn't saturate the atmosphere on this session; far from it. Sanders is content to patiently let the moods of these three pieces develop, whether it be through the percussion of Roger Blank and Nat Bettis, guitarist Sonny Sharrock, or his own piccolo. For those looking for Sanders' patented screeching tenor throughout, Tauhid will disappoint.

I see Pharoah is getting some play on another thread at the moment. I am loving Karma, Jewels of Thought and Thembi. Excited to let this one weave its hypnotic spell.

Did I mention I am seeing the man play the first weekend in May? Beyond excited.

nice, I've latched onto this record and Karma pretty heavily. also be sure to check out Black Unity (the other i've heard; it's also fantastic)

Black Unity is on its way to me as we speak! Also picked up a nice vinyl copy of Live At The East. Not sure if this one ever made it to cd or not?

get elevation too guys...amazing record.

just properly reading back over this thread, the mtume sounds well up my street. checking it out now.