Hou Hsiao-Hsien

jay OTM about dragon inn - i really enjoyed it, but felt like i was missing out having to watch it at home. i'm not sure that i can identify why, but i think there's more to it than just the theatre-as-subject, though. maybe how enveloped you're allowed to become in the lengthy takes? i saw what time is it there? on the big screen and it was amazing... but i am sort of loathe to go back and watch some of his earlier films on dvd.

re: kiarostami, i've heard that too, i want to say maybe in the interview on the criterion taste of cherry dvd?

The empty auditorium shot acquires meaning the longer it goes on. I found the last shot of GSG much more gimmicky and opaquely "cute."

Absolutely. It's almost a disappointment when it ends.

Has anyone seen "Last Life in the Universe"? I wanted to rent it last night but I was already over my rental limit. The cast looks good & Christopher Doyle shot it, so it's got to look nice at least.

I had no idea what you guys meant by "precious", but it took me about five minutes into the film before it became crystal clear. It's not as bad as, say, "Garden State", but the convieniences & cute coincidences are annoying.

Back on HHH, has anyone seen "Millenium Mambo"? I'd never heard of it, but saw it listed in the Palm Pictures catalog & then found it on Amazon for $6.98. If I get one thumbs up from someone here, I'm buying it.

There was talk of the heavy debt to Ozu (who I'm not familiar with) but I definitely want to see it again.

i guess i would like to see his other films so i can test this.

Armond nailed Flight of the Red Balloon for me, I'm afraid (except he liked Binoche more):

http://www.nypress.com/21/14/film/ArmondWhite2.cfm

I've really been underwhelmed post-Flowers of Shanghai, save for the 'silent' chapter of 3x.

Godfrey Cheshire, whelmed:

Hou is a genius, it is said; therefore every film of his is a work of art. In this case, though I'm a longtime admirer and defender of the director, I must beg to differ. Hou's latest strikes me as a trifle, more perplexing than interesting, with inherent problems that are bound up with the fact that it's the first movie he has made outside of Asia....

So why would he go off to France and make a Juliette Binoche movie? There are two primary reasons, I think, and neither is particularly salutary....

http://www.indyweek.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A259868

Pokey in spots, and Binoche's dye job makes her look like she's auditioning to play Courtney Love, but I rather loved this, especially since the original film is oh-so-precious. Rewatching certain scenes between the three main characters in Binoche's apartments, I was struck by how wittily Hou pans subtly between the child and the adults; it's like Janes' What Maisie Knew -- this child barely cognizant of what these confused adults are up to; yet there's enough distance between his perceptions and ours that the two women's interactions are regarded quizzically, affectionately.

i think one reason i love slow movies is that i sometimes something in the movie will send off on a 5 minute day dream and i wont have really missed anything plot wise. i kind of like it when a movie does not demand my attention.
― ryan (ryan), Monday, 21 March 2005 01:45 (5 years ago)

neglected slow cinema wisdom

hsh is super great

hhh :/

from his 00s stuff, millenium mambo was amazing (unjustly neglected), coffee time was very good and red balloon wd probably have been completely insufferable if entrusted to anyone else

http://stargamer1138.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/triple-h-7.jpg

red balloon playing here in two days - good or just not completely insufferable?

dyao successfully triangulates the asian minimalism / dixie proletkult demographics ^^

anything by hou is worth seeing, he is that great

red balloon is a rly weak idea for a movie but he does his best

"anything by hou is worth seeing, he is that great"

otm

City Of Sadness and The Puppetmaster are so perrfect.

juliette binoche is also wonderful in red balloon, but i agree the movie is really weak -- my fave hou would be a time to live and a time to die -- best $5 i ever spent on a chinatown dvd

am i alone in preferring his later/'urban' films? i'm going to queue up daughter of the nile, next; idk whether it's just that I don't have the same appetite for historical films but I think I 'like' the 2000s stuff more, whereas I more 'admire' what I've seen of the earlier, bigger-deal films (puppetmaster, dust in the wind).

& yeah I know I probably oughtta get around to CoS/FoS before I start this kind of conversation

The Puppetmaster is a real paint-drying film for me; I have no idea how I stayed awake in atheater in the '90s. Partly to do with my hating most puppetry from any culture?

Flowers of Shanghai is a much tougher watch at home too (esp on a crappy tape), but still easily my fave of his.

yeah i found the puppetmaster drier than most seemed to. & the jacket said HOU-LARIOUS!, which didn't help. the puppetry = some of the best parts, though!

i've still never caught flowers of shanghai or city of sadness - i had the impression that they were both super-long, where as only one is, i think. but a cinema viewing would be nice.

Puppetry is usually the best part of almost any movie it's in. The 400 Blows is one of the only exceptions I can even think of atm.

I'm in the FOS/GSG camp.

i really wanted to love city of sadness but found it far too long, and not meaty enough. i did really like a time to live and die (saw it twice, and liked it much better 2nd time round, maybe i need to do that with all his films) but this i just found dreary. took me about an hour to get into its rhythm, but found it impossible to really navigate all the characters when i did. maybe its this film, or maybe its just him, but his style can be too delicate and slight. beautiful and poetic, sure, but i wanted more than that - everything was as if it was rendered in miniature, but it makes it hard to get any sense of an emotional arc. its all just played at one pitch almost. found it easy to like particular scenes, but difficult to get a handle on the bigger picture. did love the idea of rendering every letter thats read out on the screen though - that was a lovely touch. a time to live somehow seemed better as his simple style suited the relatively simple story (though it was still epic in scope).

Was there too. There was this tension in the film between the telling of the history and the telling of that family's history that seemed unresolved by Hou. When the deaf man and his wife-to-be start conversing independently of the rest of the family -- who are talking about the political situation, big boy stuff -- and the two talk instead about their lives and the music playing you are clearly seeing what Hou is more interested in. Or at least the terrain he feels more comfortable in, because the bigger picture details did get lost over time. He never found any equilibrium here.

Its a film I'd watch again someday - it was interesting to depict such a turbulent time for a nation in such a non-epic manner.

One other thing I'd remark on is how 80s those keyboard stabs sounded to me. You can so date the movie through that, its how I amuse myself.

i found myself stuck between frustration that a subject like this DID deserve the big epic treatment and trying to see the reason for why hou wouldnt take that approach. neither was particularly satisfying. his small-detail minutiae focus can be riveting (eg a time to live...), it can also feel like a safe option. avoiding obvious big drama might seem brave or clever but it also just seems like an easy way out, and one more about preserving auteur style over what the material is desperately crying out for. if there were plenty of other epics already telling this story, i might think a small-focus movie like this to be fine, but as there arent loads about the subject, it seemed like a missed opportunity.

ha - i loved the 80s music. it was actually one of the easiest things to like about the film. he has a good ear for music.... though there WAS something rather 80s-arthouse about the film as a whole (same dated feel i get from watching something like the double life of veronique these days)

i found myself stuck between frustration that a subject like this DID deserve the big epic treatment and trying to see the reason for why hou wouldnt take that approach.

Well he is more interested in the interior life - the life of family houses and rooms, the life of a deaf mute - than what is happening more widely. Thinking more again you see that table where the father is eating, and the film pretty much ends with that scene of the eldest surviving the turbulent times. There he is, eating...Somewhat analogous to having the grandmother die at the end of A Time to Live..., the eldest outliving her son/daughter (can't remember which side she is on).

might double feature cute girl and the puppetmaster next weekend, haven't seen either.

There's been talk in All Purpose NYC ILX Film Snob Thread

I'm watching Good Men, Good Women for the first time. Its fucking w/space and time is unexpected!

Needless to say this was ravishing, and demands to be seen on a big screen.

Really felt like there was a lot of self-identification between Hou and the Assassin - both of them creep up on things (narrative/victims) and both of them refuse the expected or demanded (exposition/the killing stroke). Seemed very significant that a lot of the action moments took place just off-screen, or are seen from a distance - the film simultaneously polishes myth and views it sideways.

Scrolled up and the talk upthread re: plot gets funnier.

seeing it tonight. half wary, half excited. the interviews he has given about the film make me go for the former. like 'i just cut out everything that might tell you anything just for the hell of it'.

i watched this not caring about the plot beyond the basics. i gave up trying to follow it. but i found this enjoyable. and surprisingly light in how it feels as i was expecting it to be austere and heavy going. but it was sort of mythic and almost fairy tale-like. but i still didnt pay much attention to the narrative - it seemed inconsequential and pointless task. but also as i read so much about how ravishing it was to look at. which is actually where i found the film a let down. it looks like HD TV really. compositionally, i think the appeal was more to do with the set design than the cinematography, which seemed adequate but lacking in his usual control/deliberation. the crystalline, ultra high def images lacked anything interesting texturally. it looked like a quality TV mini series, the black and white sequence at the start even more so. a lot of the fights were presented as awkwardly as the grandmaster, though i appreciate the attempt to do something new there. its enigmatic, enjoyably light-footed, and strangely intriguing, but something i would file as a modest, low budget, late period addition to someones filmography rather than one of the great films of recent memory. i cant help thinking a lot of the praise poured onto it is a kind of compensation for his older/better films not being shown/known more.

Best bit was the panning revealing and hiding again the assassin listening through the curtains. I almost fell asleep several times but in sort of a nice way and wasn't helped by having to travel across to Edinburgh and back before work having missed it at the GFT last week.

it looks like HD TV really.

The gap between film and TV look has narrowed considerably over the last 15 years. Hou has probably gone with the times, or the tech. Its hard to know how well it might look compared as the older films (as I saw in the BFI retro) aren't in as good a condition. But for what it is I think decisions as to what is shot (and what is kept out too), angles of light etc. and mixed shooting settings - not only B&W but also that scene where the image is made grainier. That was all well-handled. I think the guy is in control of his materials.

The appeal - well you'd expect a Hou film to be well shot (its done in a way you don't like), to have as few a cliche's as poss (compared to other wuxia). Its just a very good film that had an award - which is wider recognition for a director that is pretty much well-known already in art house circles. I wouldn't call it overcompensation. Its top 10 stuff in most years.

youre right about the decreased gap between film and tv. but it made me think a bit in terms of the look of something like raul ruiz' mysteries of lisbon. the production values felt more tv something like say, house of flying daggers. i kept thinking someone should tap HHH to do a long form series, like a wuxia twin peaks. im surprised that it was shot on 35mm (suppose it shows that you can make film look like digital tv and vice versa). but there was def something slight about this compared to what else ive seen of his - it def had that stillness, and moments of opaqueness, but it didnt seem to come with as much meaning. that might come if i watch it again maybe, not sure.

im glad hes getting accolades. obv if youre 'into film', you will prob know of him, but hes not nearly as famous as other east asian auteurs.

i think im thinking texturally, or in terms of the grain, as well as attention to lighting, and atmosphere, etc.

compare this still from city of sadness to the assassin -

http://www.davidbordwell.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/City-of-Sadness-400.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5f7BVKfXipQ/Vciw4l4gJDI/AAAAAAAE8qc/x3ru511ewII/s1600/assassin7.jpg

Anybody seen the wuxia tv shows? I seen some trailers and was amazed because the movie-like quality of them seems far beyond even American tv shows.

I haven't seen Mysteries of Lisbon but he is so diff to HHH. 'TV production values' vs film - again, I wonder how much of a gap there is in the first place between either of them.

From the two screenshots I take your point but City of Sadness does, iirc, evoke a very different mood in its intentions and its a very different story - which I think why at least trying to follow some of the story's strands (and I didn't follow all of them) might be worthwhile.

It's posit StillAdvance means that MOL has the leisurely pace of, say, Berlin Alexanderplatz.

posit = possible

i only mentioned MOL as it was also a tv project IIRC but i think the thing with the assassin is that the image is very naked. or made to seem very naked (ive read some reviews since seeing it comment on it being like a painting come to life but i would say its more just like a digital photograph come to life, which im not sure really suits it as its meant to be a period piece). made me think of inland empire actually. i know the lighting was all natural, but idk, i like a bit of artifice, so maybe its just personal preference (i feel a bit like QT complaining about digital projection being TV, but i think its about the choices made in the shooting and the lighting, not the projection).

i still need to watch berlin alexanderplatz.

its more just like a digital photograph come to life, which im not sure really suits it as its meant to be a period piece

Period piece needn't mean you sould exclude digital.

Some of the colours felt oversaturated.

I think this film's status as a 'period film' is quite complex (especially when there are fantasy elements in play) - it has the feel of a retold childhood fable, a remembrance of a story rather than the story itself, and so the brightness of the colours seems an appropriate way of expressing memory, and wonderment.

So, this is a masterpiece! Reminded me a lot of Amour Fou in it's depiction of a rotten, codified, millieu. Also, reading up on the history behind it, the whole thin is based on fact, it seems. It's really not that complicated.

http://www.davidbordwell.net/blog/2016/06/06/hou-hsiao-hsien-film-culture-finally-comes-through/

Daughter of the Nile has a 30th anniversary 4K restoration opening in NY this week

https://quadcinema.com/film/daughter-of-the-nile/

watched tai pei story last week; every shot is gorgeous

I really liked The Puppetmaster. It was definitely made more interesting for me by the mixing of casual narration in voice-over and interview scenes with the historical storytelling. The “almost like life” puppet show scenes and opera scenes were also mesmerizing. Didn’t think the narrative was confusing at all (unlike The Assassin). Can relate to what was said above about his films being delicate/miniaturized, the preference for mid- and long-range shots really add emotional distance to the events of the stories

enjoyed reading this thread

I used the search function to find this thread, was disappointed to realize I posted this to ILF. surprising to me that there's no Hou Hsiao-Hsien thread on ILE

I've seen The Assassin twice now, I'm still not sure I really understand it, but it is a beautiful film

Only saw the one time when it came out but would like to see again. Where is it streaming? Only thing I see available is Daughter of the Nile on Kanopy. Actually just watched Three Times about a week ago on Mubi and it was incredible.

Seems like I missed whole Metrograph retro and don’t think I can get there tomorrow for the last day.

I want to see Three Times again, I remember liking it the first time, especially the 1966 sequence. haven't seen Daughter of the Nile yet. The Assassin is available on netflix dvd. the quality of the dvd I rented this time was superior (I thought) to that I saw initially

I know dvds are not something most people consider watching today, but without them, at least for the moment, I think viewers are missing out on a lot of great classic films

Yeah, I know I am.

The Assassin seems like a very different film to me this time. wondering what it will feel like again in 5 years

I can recommend googling the names of characters in The Assassin. Some of them are historical characters, whose stories don't end there.

Figuring out subs for French restoration of the 'HHH: A Portrait of Hou Hsiao-Hsien' documentary. Love this segement: pic.twitter.com/bd5f13eZOk

— mmcc (@mattmccrac) August 17, 2022

Having completed the subtitle project and working now on packaging them and the video together properly, please enjoy Hou Hsiao-hsien's magnificent singing at KTV.

"Cheers friends, let it all out!"https://t.co/6rqqjCGJuc pic.twitter.com/tBrtsxr2LM

— mmcc (@mattmccrac) August 2, 2023

https://variety.com/2023/film/news/hou-hsiao-hsien-taiwan-director-retirement-1235768092/

that's a loss but he seems to be doing what's best for his health and i hope he has a long happy retirement

Hope this sad news inspires a push to finally get decent physical media editions of things like Puppetmaster and City of Sadness out there.

The Assassin was a hell of a film to go out on.

https://www.taiwanplus.com/shows/culture/between-the-tides-taiwans-new-wave-classics-and-beyond

dust in the wind (and other non-HHH classics) available for streaming here

"Before he was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s, he had often shared with us that his love for films has become purer."

Thank you so much for your films, Hou.