Kelis - C/D

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If you don't like Kelis, listen for the Crackout (or Capdown, I forget, they're the same band aren't they?) cover of "Caught Out There". And be thankful the original wasn't that arse-grindingly poor.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 24 August 2002 17:15 (twenty-one years ago) link

the way i see it, if you dont like Kelis or at least a few of her tracks (as i do) then you dont like that kind of music full stop. i'm not convinced there's a better female export of....gawd, whatever this music could actually be called now (i refuse to deem it as r'n'b but its progressed too far from swingbeat as well). i dont see what Tweet's got that Kelis didnt for example - tho i tink Tweet's stuff is okay - if TOO influenced by Missy

blueski, Saturday, 24 August 2002 20:45 (twenty-one years ago) link

i think tweet got all the tracks tim intended for alliyah

chaki (chaki), Saturday, 24 August 2002 21:18 (twenty-one years ago) link

you dont like that kind of music full stop

A bit unfair, I think. Some would say that to not like Coltrane is to not like jazz, say, but Mark S clearly loves his jazz and is no Coltrane fan (unless I've completely missed something). Mistaking one person/album/song for the sole keys to the kingdom doesn't seem appropriate.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 24 August 2002 21:26 (twenty-one years ago) link

maybe he's logically wrong, ned, but I still like his point. it seems as if usually we expect a bit more from a person who claims to find nothing at all to like about a record most people take to be exemplary or representative etc. of a genre, but who claims to like the genre. it's kind of idiosyncratic. it's not as if mark gets off free for his coltrane thing - he's met with constant confusion and disbelief, in part because he's so extreme about it. so people expect him to say something about it to help them make sense of it.

I'm never really sure what all you listen to, but in your case it seems weirder to say this and still say you like r+b (if you would say that). at least I have some idea that mark will go for a lot of jazz or free jazz. with you, it just seems like isolated records.

Josh (Josh), Saturday, 24 August 2002 23:19 (twenty-one years ago) link

and I don't really intend to turn this into a figure-out-ned's-willful-idiosyncracies thing. I want to focus on what this kind of reaction to a representative record might be taken for from some less willfully idiosyncratic person, and how it sits with what we think of as liking a genre as opposed to isolated records.

Josh (Josh), Saturday, 24 August 2002 23:21 (twenty-one years ago) link

what we're talking about seems to particularly involve liking a 'foreign' genre. if we were talking about someone who liked some rock records and not say raw power I don't think we would find it at all unusual for them to claim that they still liked rock. why is that?

Josh (Josh), Saturday, 24 August 2002 23:38 (twenty-one years ago) link

Maybe Ned reacts to the untrained-ness of Kelis's performances - I remember when "Caught Out There" came out Tom said it was exactly that which he preferred in Kelis over Destiny's Child (if I recall I was arguing that "Bug A Boo" was the song's equal), but I'm pretty sure Ned's favourite R&B diva is Aaliyah, who is ultra-trained and pure-sounding (if on the restrained rather than melismatic side).

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Sunday, 25 August 2002 00:56 (twenty-one years ago) link

Good points all. Tim is right vis-a-vis Aaliyah (and I am definitely NOT a fan of melisma in many instances, it depresses the hell out of me in ways that eight hours of the Swans never could) and could well be right about the untrainedness...hm, it will require a relisten or two, it's been a little bit! ;-) I've actually loaded up a couple of tracks from Kaleidoscope on my iPod for my NZ trip. Untrainedness, perhaps, strident might also be another word -- but to steer clear of DV's criticism (hey, you know me and lyrics), it's not subject matter so much as how it's delivered. But turning that around, I'm definitely not demanding that all the singers I like be like Aaliyah or anything, that would be boring and more to the point an inaccurate description of my own reactions to singing styles. But some people do just grate, or don't seem particularly well-suited to what's being created, and that was my sense with Kelis (if you want a not-entirely-useful comparison, Eve isn't a favorite of mine either, but she bores me where Kelis bugs me).

I wouldn't call it specifically willful, Josh -- my own reaction to it was that when it came out, and that the past couple of years have seen it elevated to where it is doesn't so much mean I'm trying to be contrarian so much as my own reactions to it just stand out all the more. I don't know whether that helps any or not. To address the larger question...*thinks*...I think it just means that people's tastes are more complicated and less prone to rigorous 'if x then y' conclusions that might be thought. Admittedly that's the type of thing I would say, but it doesn't really strike me as odd.

I'm never really sure what all you listen to

Shouldn't that be everyone's goal? Why confirm expectations? :-)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 25 August 2002 02:13 (twenty-one years ago) link

dilettante trash a blast from the past

Josh (Josh), Wednesday, 28 August 2002 04:26 (twenty-one years ago) link

Wow was I ever weak on that thread.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 28 August 2002 05:22 (twenty-one years ago) link

five months pass...
"Mars" is a rilly wonderful song.

naked as sin (naked as sin), Monday, 10 February 2003 00:47 (twenty-one years ago) link

some days of the week that first kelis album is my favorite record of the 2000s so far (yes, i know it came out in dec 99 you fucking pedants)

jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 10 February 2003 01:01 (twenty-one years ago) link

da fact dat u kno dat means u ain't allowed 2 say non-bracketed part o post, silly.

naked as sin (naked as sin), Monday, 10 February 2003 01:06 (twenty-one years ago) link

you hating neptunes = you hating fun!!

HAHA I WAS ONLY JOKING NED PLEASE SPARE MEEEE

zemko (bob), Monday, 10 February 2003 01:14 (twenty-one years ago) link

but ther so much fun

naked as sin (naked as sin), Monday, 10 February 2003 01:15 (twenty-one years ago) link

my posts seem really dumb months later :(

oh wait, they were at the time as well...

stevem (blueski), Monday, 10 February 2003 01:39 (twenty-one years ago) link

HAHA I WAS ONLY JOKING NED PLEASE SPARE MEEEE

Death to the unbeliever.

my posts seem really dumb months later :(

Eh? Why do you say that?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 10 February 2003 01:45 (twenty-one years ago) link

yeah, mars! i love mafia too.

minna (minna), Monday, 10 February 2003 01:50 (twenty-one years ago) link

six months pass...
Mafia, Mars, Ghetto Children = YES.

Andrew (enneff), Monday, 1 September 2003 00:34 (twenty years ago) link

i must say, one year later Kelis is looking much better off after a string of very good guest spots with Timo Maas, P Diddy/D Emerson and especially Richard X. 'Milkshake' is HAWT.

stevem (blueski), Monday, 1 September 2003 00:42 (twenty years ago) link

'Popular Thug' (the original) has me right where it wants me and 'Finest Dreams' should be all up on MTV America, with Richard doing some stuff on the next record. Kaleidoscope roxors. Kelis classique. Go, Kelis, go, Kelis, go.

Barima (Barima), Monday, 1 September 2003 07:33 (twenty years ago) link

When Wanderland came out and everyone was all "ahh, er, nnnng" about it I lost interest for a bit and I got it for £2 in Music Zone a few weeks ago and GRAAAH it is perfect, how did I get by without for so long? Popular Thug/Finest Dreams/Milkshake have effortlessly sent her flying atop the Gloriousest Popstar Of The Now pile all over again.

Is Milkshake actual new single, or just floaty-around-newness? Is there imminent third album? Want want want want WANT.

Alex in Doncaster (Alex in Doncaster), Monday, 1 September 2003 07:40 (twenty years ago) link

Nah dud. What was eventually great about her debut album was due to Neptunes doing a good job.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 1 September 2003 08:01 (twenty years ago) link

she is fantastic and wanderland is a much better record than people think. i actually think it's the best thing she's done. did i hear geir saying the neptunes did a good job? am i imagining this?

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 1 September 2003 08:23 (twenty years ago) link

Classic.
I started enjoying r'n'b with "Caught out there", which sounded amazing to me, before I thought the entire genre was crap and then I checked out Neptunes and Timbaland stuff.
I saw her live, performing her songs and covers like "Smells like teen spirit", she really rocked.
I like most of the things she did, especially collaborations with Guru and Richard X, Timo Maas.
I hope the new LP will sold more than the underrated "wanderland".

Sami (Sami), Monday, 1 September 2003 08:59 (twenty years ago) link

Kelis is back :) Both 'Kaleidoscope' and 'Wanderland' are patchy, but she's an amazing pop star and one day she will make a masterpiece.

The Lex (The Lex), Monday, 1 September 2003 13:25 (twenty years ago) link

"Milkshake" is super good. Does anyone know the producer line-up for her new one? Is it all Neps or is Richard X on board too?

Nick H, Monday, 1 September 2003 13:50 (twenty years ago) link

nick, see: http://www.rollingstone.com/news/newsarticle.asp?nid=18295

(producers allegedly include timbaland, diddy, dame grease, r saadiq and dallas austin)(no i don't know who all of those people are either)

mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Monday, 1 September 2003 14:02 (twenty years ago) link

I think people would like Wanderland more if it wasn't released in the midst of lots of other Neptunes stuff. They were using a lot of similar tricks (swoony soul, minimal synth-rave etc.) elsewhere, such that while Wanderland is as good as anything else they were doing it didn't sound as out-of-nowhere as Kaleidoscope (and indeed Kaleidoscope still sounds out-of-nowhere due to its sugary maximalist production).

I think "Popular Thug" (original) is her finest moment though.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 01:05 (twenty years ago) link

dame grease is a gothy dmx/ruff ryders beatmaker, r saadiq was in tony toni tone and does nu soul stuff now, dallas austin is an rnb dude who did pink and tlc and monica stuff

trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 01:31 (twenty years ago) link

I initially thought Dame Grease was a woman, adopting a Judi Dench-style name.

Nick H, Tuesday, 2 September 2003 11:21 (twenty years ago) link

two years pass...
Ooh, new Kelis album out in July, name escapes me at the moment.

I heard new single 'Bossy' yesterday which hasn't stuck in my head, but I need to give it a few more plays.

My girlfriend showed me a feature of her in Elle magazine and she appeared to be sporting a Supremes-like straight bob haircut too.

Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Monday, 5 June 2006 11:00 (seventeen years ago) link

name of album will be kelis was here

'bossy' is initially underwhelming - it's VERY minimal, though when i listened back to tasty at the weekend i realised that she was playing with sparse plinky-plonky 808 sounds on quite a few of the album tracks there. i think it's good, and it makes me very intrigued to hear what she'll be up to on the album, but it's an odd choice of single. i heard it last year and thought it was just an unreleased demo like 'running mate' - i didn't think it had the oomph to be a lead single!

The Lex (The Lex), Monday, 5 June 2006 11:14 (seventeen years ago) link

she's on posters all over london right now for her live date. she looks v muscly in them.

The Lex (The Lex), Monday, 5 June 2006 11:15 (seventeen years ago) link

also wtf am i on about upthread, both kaleidoscope and wanderland are start-to-finish gold.

The Lex (The Lex), Monday, 5 June 2006 11:20 (seventeen years ago) link

once the bassline & the extra prince of persia plinking come in it aint that minimal after all - it does have like nothing under her on the chorus tho. i was really looking forward to hearing too $hort submit to kelis but he just wont ever! instead he bosses her around to tell other dudes shes bossy, like hes the kingpin responsible for her bossiness! whatever too short!

karri miback (cruisy), Monday, 5 June 2006 11:27 (seventeen years ago) link

"Bossy" is awesome.

deej.. (deej..), Monday, 5 June 2006 14:20 (seventeen years ago) link

agreed

I knew short dog wasn't goin out like that though, dream on

tremendoid (tremendoid), Monday, 5 June 2006 15:18 (seventeen years ago) link

this song is garbage

and what (ooo), Monday, 5 June 2006 15:51 (seventeen years ago) link

'Help Me', the Timo Maas track, is super dope.

Hal! Jordan! HAL! JORDAN! (Barima), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 07:07 (seventeen years ago) link

HOW SURPRISING THAT ETHAN DOESN'T LIKE THIS SONG

Dan (Although This Time I Agree With Him, Heh) Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 18:27 (seventeen years ago) link

i played this out the other day and it sounds a lot better on a big system, the bassline really comes into its own. it reminds me slightly of 'erotic discourse' of all things!

The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 07:50 (seventeen years ago) link

one month passes...
I'M BOSSY!

has this grown on anyone else as much as it has me? really badly want to hear the new album...

Jimmy_tango (Jimmy_tango), Friday, 28 July 2006 23:00 (seventeen years ago) link

whenever the woman puts on lipgloss i sing 'I'M GLOSSY'

she hates it

Mike Hooter (jaxon), Friday, 28 July 2006 23:14 (seventeen years ago) link

You should extend that to dental floss.

paulhw (paulhw), Friday, 28 July 2006 23:27 (seventeen years ago) link

i was really looking forward to hearing too $hort submit to kelis but he just wont ever! instead he bosses her around to tell other dudes shes bossy, like hes the kingpin responsible for her bossiness! whatever too short!

i hear this the opposite -- he's too smart to tangle with her, so the best he can do is be her hype man.

great song. sexy video.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Friday, 28 July 2006 23:31 (seventeen years ago) link

i have been listening to this nigh on constantly since i stole it last night. i like how minimal and unhurried it is, it makes it seem opulent and lazy which fits lyrically. i love how much fun a track can be just with some 808 beats and a bit of good synth work. i haven't liked a pop song this much in a very long time...

Andrew Harrison (andrewtothemax), Thursday, 3 August 2006 03:25 (seventeen years ago) link

I HATE YOU SO MUCH RIGHT NOW!

AAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!

less-than three's Christiane F. (drowned in milk), Thursday, 3 August 2006 03:39 (seventeen years ago) link

"Bossy" = WORST. SONG. EVAR.

Just needed to be said.

It's Rodney, assume the position! (R. J. Greene), Thursday, 3 August 2006 04:22 (seventeen years ago) link

(I'd forgotten the name. It's "Sleep in the Park".)

Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 23 April 2013 23:25 (eleven years ago) link

lol, i've seen people elsewhere react to this with "she's copying solange!!!!" as though both of them weren't harking back to and drawing on much older forms of soul, afrobeat etc

(and as though kelis hasn't just written an effortlessly better song)

flamenco drop (lex pretend), Wednesday, 24 April 2013 07:52 (ten years ago) link

Crucially, Kelis doesn't feel like she's using drums as a strainer-filter for all the messy emotion of R&B.

Tim F, Wednesday, 24 April 2013 07:55 (ten years ago) link

i don't think she's copied her, merely that they appear to be mining similar territory. fan of both ftr.

monotony, Wednesday, 24 April 2013 09:39 (ten years ago) link

not feeling

r|t|c, Wednesday, 24 April 2013 11:52 (ten years ago) link

Me neither. The horns are an annoyance.

the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 24 April 2013 23:51 (ten years ago) link

Just pulled out wanderland again. Haven't listened to it in years and it drives me nuts that they've yanked all the stuff from it from youtube on copyright grounds, which is insane because its like you didn't even release the album in the states! why won't you just let people hear it!

start-to-finish one of my favorite albums still. other albums and artists probably have better individual tracks. but it has a consistency of vision and an overall structure that just knocks me out. Also this is probably my favorite period of neptunes productions. another buried kelis/neptunes classic circa about the same period is Royce Da 5'9"'s Make This Run. love how the production feels looped and regular and super-electronic but simultaneously sort of subtly evolves over the course of the tracks with a subtly organic feel. its like it keeps time with my breathing. and the imagery with the wings is just next level.

Chuck E was a hero to most (s.clover), Thursday, 2 May 2013 18:19 (ten years ago) link

the intro on junkie is so playful.

Chuck E was a hero to most (s.clover), Thursday, 2 May 2013 18:48 (ten years ago) link

the futurism/conscious stuff in little suzie especially, its like the direct predecessor to janelle monae. i wonder how different kelis' career could have been if this was a hit in the states.

Chuck E was a hero to most (s.clover), Thursday, 2 May 2013 19:22 (ten years ago) link

new song is strong imo, i'm into the production.

shit tie (Jordan), Thursday, 2 May 2013 19:39 (ten years ago) link

holy shit i never heard the young fresh so solid remix before! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wiFB3B8qyY

it's a mess, but it's also totally great.

Chuck E was a hero to most (s.clover), Friday, 3 May 2013 17:40 (ten years ago) link

ten months pass...

I just heard the last part of a great interview w/ Kelis on the broadcast of the "BBC World Service" (for either March 4 or 5, I would guess)

anyone know where I can find the rest of it? google is no help.

espring (amateurist), Wednesday, 5 March 2014 06:44 (ten years ago) link

One of these, maybe? Kelis seems to have been on BBC Radio a lot in the past couple of days.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/search/iplayer/?q=kelis

Jeff W, Wednesday, 5 March 2014 12:29 (ten years ago) link

three years pass...

kelis flesh tone is insanely underrated

21st century/fourth of july are all time

In a slipshod style (Ross), Wednesday, 22 November 2017 07:19 (six years ago) link

22nd century **

In a slipshod style (Ross), Wednesday, 22 November 2017 07:21 (six years ago) link

otm

johnny crunch, Wednesday, 22 November 2017 14:27 (six years ago) link

I did not remember that Ned didn't like Kelis

the Hannah Montana of the Korean War (DJP), Wednesday, 22 November 2017 15:14 (six years ago) link

two months pass...

Playing 3 shows in Victoria soon, sounds amazing

kolakube (Ross), Friday, 26 January 2018 00:37 (six years ago) link

felt sad at seeing her judge that awful choir competition thing on the BBC (since cancelled?) but hey gotta pay the bills

Daniel_Rf, Friday, 26 January 2018 10:57 (six years ago) link

one year passes...
three years pass...

classique

this disclosure thing is my dance anthem tbh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM2oOEmDU3w

the cat needs to start paying for its own cbd (map), Friday, 29 July 2022 00:41 (one year ago) link

oof cringey video tho

the cat needs to start paying for its own cbd (map), Friday, 29 July 2022 00:42 (one year ago) link

solid jam

by all accounts Nas was a terrible husband and his story of their relationship on "Bye Baby" is probably a load of bullshit, but this image stuck with me:

You screaming at the racist cops in Miami was probably
The highlight of my life

corrs unplugged, Friday, 29 July 2022 09:29 (one year ago) link

https://pitchfork.com/news/kelis-says-she-wasnt-told-beyonce-sampled-her-on-renaissance/

“Milkshake” is interpolated on Beyonce's “Energy.” When she heard the song was sampled, Kelis likened it to “theft.” She is not listed as one of the producers, composers, or lyricists on the sampled song and has previously discussed the terms of her early contract.

curmudgeon, Friday, 29 July 2022 11:32 (one year ago) link

It's the delivery of the lines "On stage, rockin', I'm star crazy, Cocoa flow like 1980's" using the flow from the Milkshake hook that's in question? used to be a commonplace and benign thing to make references like that

maybe I'm not hearing it right

corrs unplugged, Friday, 29 July 2022 11:42 (one year ago) link

Kelis thinks she should have gotten a songwriting credit for "Milkshake" long ago, but acknowledges she signed a contract then. So since there's a credit on the B album to the Neptunes for the "interpolation" she thinks she should have been credited as well. But yeah that used to be commonplace to make melodic references like that.

curmudgeon, Friday, 29 July 2022 12:05 (one year ago) link

Aah now I get it, thx

corrs unplugged, Friday, 29 July 2022 12:12 (one year ago) link

ten months pass...

So she's dating Bill Murray. Huh.

Um…

CeeLô Borges (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 8 June 2023 23:08 (ten months ago) link

Great revive?

CeeLô Borges (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 8 June 2023 23:08 (ten months ago) link

I don’t know what famous people do.

CeeLô Borges (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 8 June 2023 23:10 (ten months ago) link

Pondering it too much, that way lies madness.

CeeLô Borges (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 8 June 2023 23:23 (ten months ago) link

Not that this will stop me.

CeeLô Borges (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 8 June 2023 23:36 (ten months ago) link

I don't have any actual opinion about Kelis dating Bill Murray, I just thought it was interesting in a "pictures of famous people you wouldn't expect together" way.

Right, of course.

CeeLô Borges (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 8 June 2023 23:42 (ten months ago) link


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