New Order:Sublime or Ridiculous?

New Order Substance album R rubbish, and

New Order: Search and Destroy

Yes, but maybe I should have written naively ridiculous, as opposed to "naive to a ridiculous degree".

Ned is correct. Even their lowest moments have greatness (note "Regret" from _Republic_ - one of the best opening numbers EVAH. Of course the lyrics are largely hogwash, which has been a subject of discussion among my friends for a long time: we figure Barney knows he used to work with one of the great rock lyricists of all time and reasons that there's no point in even trying if you haven't actually got the genuine goods. Occasional exceptions to the rule only point up just how weak most of N.O.'s lyrics are.

Which does not detract even a whit from their total, total, total, total greatness. Everything's worth getting, and if you can get somebody to burn you all the good stuff from the Electronic records, that's worth it two -- "For You" from _Raise the Pressure_: Johnny Marr's single best post-Smiths moment.

/rant

Oh, likely enough. But even The Great AntiLyricist that is me has all the time in the world for:

"Just wait till tomorrow...I guess that's what they all say...Just before they fall apart."

i often love the intentional triteness of barney's lyrics, i think there's a strong sense of irony there ... he knows what he's saying is naive but here's a man who has obviously been through enough to know what's what. that naivete for me actually gives his lyrics a hard edge ... it's unusual. i think part of it may be also a conscious choice to force himself to not continually tread the path of his lyrical predecessor.

This Movement apologist is aboot to obtain a region-free DVD player. Is the New Order Live DVD worth it?

Tks in adv.

I agree that _Substance_ is really the starting point of choice (even now I'm getting the shivers thinking of "Everything's Gone Green" and that miraculous opening that veers off in a completely different direction six bars into the song).

I also wonder why there wasn't ever a "Substance II": let's see, "Touched by the Hand of God," "Fine Time," "Round & Round," "Run 2," "World in Motion," "Regret," "Ruined In A Day," "World," "Spooky," throw in "Crystal" and the single version of "1963" and maybe even "Blue Monday '88" and you'd have something way better than that dodgy best-of. Of course, 20 years from now when Rhino puts it together they'll probably add "Getting Away With It" and "Tasty Fish" and I won't mind a bit.

But on the whole you are right, not as influential as people write/say. esp as the hi-nrg stuff that BM rips off was already out there, just less popular.

Most prescient of Robert, then, since that came out two, three years previously to "Blue Monday." Further proof of the Cure's genius!

Also: let it be noted that The Cure (who I nonetheless love) were anything but forerunners to NO. In fact The Cure's doom throughout the eighties was to always be about two years behind the Joy Division/New Order axis.

Tim, could you expand on this...

YES THEY DO. Give in, Dan, give in. 1985 was the switchoff year. "Sunrise" -- Cure tribute. "Inbetween Days" -- New Order tribute. HA!

No it's not, because the vocal melody and the chorus are completely different.

It's actually nice that I've managed to keep it fresh for all these years -- but where will it end? There must be a shelf life to this technique if I'm to continue listening to them, even occasionally. And are they truly one of my favorites if I never listen to them? Does New Order get old/the magic wear off, etc?

22 JUN 82 Rollingstone - Milan, Italy 60

Truth, Dreams Never End, Chosen Time, ICB, Leave Me Alone, Denial,
Procession, 586, Temptation, Everything's Gone Green, When I'm With You

Some absolutely brutal performances of Movement-era stuff -- and it's all topped off with a performance of Sparks' "When I'm With You!" What a band.

this comparison doesn't really hold water, unless you're seriously wanting to equate formal objections (NO) with objections to content (misogyny)

there.

I dunno, I just object strenuously to the notion that bitching about misogyny in any lyrics, hip-hop or otherwise, is somehow misguided - whereas the case against bitching about New Order lyrics is rather clearer: they obviously don't mean anything, you can just ignore them, even if you don't ignore them they're not likely to do much, textually

I do understand that this is a pointless argument, don't get me wrong, I just hate it when people wanna equate saying nothing in particular with saying (say) that it's cool to treat women like shit

x-post Alfred you'll go a long ways to find a more devoted formalist than me, but to conflate/equate form & content doesn't relieve content of its various burdens

Fine. I retract my analogy. I was playing devil's advocate, in part because it's so tiresome to read bitching about NO's lyrics in 2006.

Anyone still have the Japanese version of Krafty?

They always sound a little unfamiliar, like I'm listening to them for the first time. I think I've put off listening to them in the past because I want to preserve the newness of the songs and the feeling they give me (when I hear them, my stomach knots up -- I don't want that to go away).

these two sentences are kind of perfect. i am going to use them as my excuse for never remembering what any individual new order song is called.

ridiculous: REPUBLIC, MOVEMENT

Cripes, did I really suggest that Movement is ridiculous? I should be flogged for that.

Milan show Ned mentions ^^^ is crazy. Some aggressive presentations of Movement songs - Lots of echoes, kinda dubby in parts. One of my favorite live bootlegs ever.

Haha, Alex, this is the second time you've apologized for that on this thread!

Movement is great, Republic is even better.

No, I'm serious.

One forgets these things as one ages, alas.

A google image search for "new order" "gay sperm" is pretty OTM.

Two Lone Swordsmen named one of their tracks after that famous bass cabinet phrase.

what the hell: New Order gigs this Fall, w/o Peter Hook?!?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/news/20110905_neworder.shtml

well, for a good cause, so that's nice, and nice the gillian is back too.

playing right here in Brussels - so might be my chance to finally see these guys live.

http://www.slicingupeyeballs.com/2011/10/10/new-order-peter-saville-posters-paris-brussels/

The reunited New Order — Bernard Sumner, Stephen Morris and Gillian Gilbert — also released a video statement promoting the sale of the posters, which you can watch below. They do not, however, respond to their surly former bandmate Peter Hook’s recent accusations that they’re actually reuniting for profit and have a future U.S. tour in the works.

...because of course Hook's tour is about charity.

Anyway I presume Spencer has already ordered both of those posters.

You know, it's odd that the last couple of chapters of New Order live have largely been Gillian-free. And then Hook is out and suddenly Gillian reappears. Hmmm....

Surely they've been seen in the same room before...

I think I meant maybe more that they really didn't like each other?

...because of course Hook's tour is about charity.

Because of course Hook has claimed that he's only playing two gigs and they're just for charity, and not openly said at every stage that he's doing it to earn a living.

Stephen Morris ranks the New Order discography...

http://noisey.vice.com/blog/new-order-rank-your-records

Isolation pic.twitter.com/PJlcHVawvJ

— Paul Quarantine Duane (@MrPaulDuane) May 19, 2020

answer to thread q is clearly “yes”