The Who : Classic or Dud

My favourite Kinks single, "See My Friend", seems to get virtually no airplay whatsoever in the UK, so well done to Scott, though I suspect he was referring to a radio format that doesn't exist here.

Of course I would be very interested in what David the Huntsman could say to this thread since as some of us know he was very much the childhood Who obsessive.

2) wasn't 'see my friend' the first psychedelic song or something?

i think tad hits upon something when he implies that there was always something second-best about the group, moon and the great songs notwithstanding. was it reynolds who said that there's something unloveable about them?

give me "i can't explain"; the rest of those early singles might as well have been performed by the later kinks, which means that they can take a flying leap. and then give me "baba o'riley" and "won't get fooled again" and any of their really hard-rocking moments, their CLASSIC ROCK moments, if you will. at their core, they formed a great rock band and so it's a shame that they didn't indulge that side more.

I know what you mean Robin. Their early singles were more pithy, r&b- ish. As they went on, the hyped-up guitar powerchords came more and more to the fore, to the point of deliberate self-pastiche by the time of tracks like "In A Hand Or A Face" (1975).

Having said that, I have to disagree with you about their best period, preferring the years 1970-75. My favourite album is "Who's Next" which I think you should check out because, apart from anything else, you may find the background to it interesting. For what it's worth (nothing), it's probably my all-time favourite album (by anybody). "Quadrophenia" is also quite good, although over-repetitive musically. "The Who By Numbers" has some good songs on it, but you can hear Townshend's guitar playing changing as he starts to incorporate slightly funky American styles (rather derivative and dreary to my ears).

The worst thing about the Who, and something that worried me slightly even at the time, is the sense that everything is incredibly male- centred (and verging on the thuggish at times eg glorification of Moon's antics).

I've always wondered why the run of singles from "I Can't Explain" to "Pictures Of Lily" did very little in the US at a time when the American charts were at their most open ever towards British acts. My glib guess would be that, in the sense of irony and sexual innuendo and various allusions in the lyrics, they were very "English" in a sense that didn't really appeal to mainstream US audiences and radio programmers (as opposed to the stereotypical sense of Herman's Hermits, the Dave Clark Five, or Paul McCartney in "When I'm 64" mode). There's something slightly camp about the high-pitched backing vocals on "I Can't Explain", and it didn't have the undercurrent of de-ironised rockism that I can always detect in Mick Jagger (who is always a terrible disappointment to me when judged by the "campness" criterion).

David, given that I once constructed an entire email to you around the *context* of "Won't Get Fooled Again" (an awesomely brilliant song BTW) rather than the song itself, I can see what you mean about my finding the context of "Who's Next" interesting. And you are right; I feel extremely guilty that I haven't heard it.

Ihave no problems with Townshend's need to break free from conventional song and album structures - in the main it works, but I strongly disagree that Who's Next is their best work. IMHO the middle of this album is as weak (from My Wife to Going Mobile) as the rest (Baba/Bargain/Love ain't.../Behind Blue../Won't Get...) is monumental. If pushed I could let My Wife through for the wierd brass stabs, but I can't accept that The Song is Over/Getting in Tune/Going Mobile are worth anything. Townshend seems to be trying to wrestle the sons away from Daltrey - either by taking over the vocals, or by chucking in key shifts that aren't needed (The Song is Over). It feels like he's still trying to get to whatever "Lifehouse" was supposed to be Also, two songs *about* songs or using songs as metaphors is pretty damn close to bands writing songs about being in bands. Daltry's leather-lunged vocals get pretty close to unpleasant also, again the tension between him and Townshend seems to come to the fore - it's like he's trying too hard to outdo Pete's reedy whine when he really doesn't need to try AT ALL. I much prefer Rog's R+B voice of 1964-7. So "Who's Next" is fatally flawed in my book, but still clearly essential for the 5 good tracks. My Search would include all the singles mentioned above, Live At Leeds, Who Sell-Out, BBC Sessions (Fantastic!), and I'd Destroy everything after Keith. The truth is that the rot set in in 1971 though.

Well it depends if you like Townshend's vocals or not. I do, so I have no complaint. In fact Townshend's demo of "Pure & Easy" (on his solo album "Who Came First") is much better than the Who's version, sung by Daltrey (to be found on the "Odds & Sods" compilation and the remastered/repackaged CD of "Who's Next"). I have often wondered though what the criteria were for lead vocal parts being assigned to Townshend.

...or by chucking in key shifts that aren't needed (The Song is Over). It feels like he's still trying to get to whatever "Lifehouse" was supposed to be...

Of course "Who's Next" was something of a rescue job after the failed attempt to make a coherent double album/conceptual work of "Lifehouse". So "Song Is Over", which I love btw, is very much a piece of a jigsaw puzzle, and can seem confusing because its intended context is missing.

>>> IMHO the middle of this album is as weak (from My Wife to Going Mobile) as the rest (Baba/Bargain/Love ain't.../Behind Blue../Won't Get...) is monumental.

But... well, that's quite a bit of Monumentality. For me the first two tracks alone justify the enterprise. Monumental indeed.

>>> If pushed I could let My Wife through for the wierd brass stabs,

Hey - those weird brass stabs!! And what about that vast menacing undercurrent of brass as the song heads out?

>>> It feels like he's still trying to get to whatever "Lifehouse" was supposed to be.

Well - it was Daltrey (!) who said that the greatness of the LP maybe came from the unrealized 'conceptualism' behind it - from the failure, but residual presence, of Lifehouse. Interesting, I think - more perceptive than I'd expect from the old trout.

>>> Also, two songs *about* songs or using songs as metaphors is pretty damn close to bands writing songs about being in bands.

This ought to be a thread: songs about songs - search & destroy...

And the absurd lyrics.

Plus, they rock. Live at Leeds is just so fun for the power chords and crazy drumming.

The one post-71 thing you should definitely check out is Odds & Sods. There singles/B-sides thing that has some great moments, many dating from the period you like best (also some more classic rock stuff like "Long Live Rock," but hey.)

As for "A Quick One" - it seems fairly fashionable to riducule the Moon songs and Daltrey's "See My Way", all of which are in fact ace and a nice counterpoint to Townshend's 'before your very eyes' transformation from Mod-man (Run, Run, Run, So Sad About Us) to concept-man (A Quick One). That makes "The Who Sell Out" the best next step, IMHO.

But my god, the remaster of My Generation sounds perfect to me. It pops and cracks whereas the crap mono version clanged and fizzed. It sounds so good cranked up, and having all the B-sides together is revalatory (some of them were actually meant to be released on the original album, until they were encouraged to write some more originals). "Heat Wave," "I'm A Man," "Shout And Shimmy," "Anytime You Want Me" are all great. Check out Daltrey's a-capella version of "Anytime You Want Me." He was already a really strong singer, rivalled only by The Small Faces' Steve Marriott. I'd go so far as to say it's the ONLY Who album that's listenable all the way through. Later singles are generally perfect, but otherwise, Townsend over reaches and loses what made The Who so exciting -- the immediacy of their hooks, the surprisingly pretty melodies that were always given an explosive beat-down by Moon before they've overstayed their welcome.

I didn't know there was a special edition of My Generation. I think I only have the Mono one, and haven't played it in about 10 years.

Never bettered "The Who Sellout" though.

Any one of youz up in this bitch down with the Mike Post Theme, from Endless Wire? If not, Who fans are in for a treat. that is one heckuva song, people. Geez.

What a perfect song that is. Best thing they've done since...yeah, I'll say it, best song they've done since "Who Are You."

You're being too conservative. Best song since Quadrophenia.

I'm not yet ready to rank it above the stuff on The Who By Numbers...but I will say it's easily as good as anything on there.

There comes a time in every little punk's life when he has to write a song for his common law wife...

...reads almost as a continuation of some of the stuff off Quadrophenia. I would have preferred more fleshed-out songs on the "Wire and Glass" section to the sketchy "mini-opera", as some of the themes were pretty engaging. This song is one of the keepers, though.

I just got out of the hospital after five days cuz of a stupid and irrelevant leg infection and treated myself to the "Who at Kilburn Live 1977" DVD. Damn, is it awesome. The bonus 1969 disc is the "Leeds" boiler suit Who, fresh off Woodstock and on fire. Any idiot who doesn't think Townshend can play has to hear "Young Man's Blues" which is essentially the Who trying to kill the audience. Moon is utterly ridiculous and awesome, it almost feels like his drumming is digitally edited in with CGI because it is so fucking unreal. But there is a reason it is named "Kilburn '77"...

Fast forward 8 years. They hadnt played together in a year. What you get is every dude in the Who hating every other guy (not including Keith, who wanted the other 3 to love him). It's prime Townshend, who literally wants to shut the show down midway through, because he thinks it sucks. He's wrong of course, because the Who at Odds is the Who in top form, and the Who is even better when Townshend is pissed off, which he takes to Blackmore-esque extremes here. Check "My Wife" when he throws an equalizer and 3 cups of brandy at his guitar tech. He is unbearably pissed, which leaves the other 3 to react in their typical ways: Daltrey is preoccupied about thinking where he is going to file for unemployment in the morning; Moon is trying to be Pete's puppy dog and not get in trouble; and a totally wasted Entwistle (RIP Ox-you were the best) doesnt give a flying fuck and plays his ass off and plays possible the greatest bass solo in recorded history on "Dreaming from the Waist".

What a fucking awesome DVD. I hope Sara Sara Sara, the biggest Who fan on these boards, has this.

Wow! I actually managed to find a decently titled Who thread in the search engine. What a miracle! I thought about starting a thread for this song, but I held out and searched some more. Hope you're happy mods that I didn't start a new thread. God forbid I override the stupid search engine which doesn't actually work all that well for Who threads, let me remind you. I already started a thread awhile back about how much it drives me crazy when I can't find Who threads on ILM when I want to freaking talk about this band, okay? In fact, the only sane way a person can even find that thread now is if they put "bimble" in the search, and I fixed it that way because I just didn't know how else to fix it. But I rest my case. Good luck finding the "Endless Wire" thread, though! God, that one is impossible to find. I'd love for anyone to prove me wrong, though, and tell me exactly how they did it.

Now here's what I want the topic of my pretend thread to be, this song "Who Are You?" right? The album this comes from is the only Who album I've never owned, no lie. Why? Because I tried to listen to it in the store when I was in the midst of my big Who buying spree, and I didn't much like it. But I still like this song, and I've heard the earlier demo version of it somewhere on my Townshend boxset thing or other and it seems to me he'd hit an unexpected pot of gold here in his songwriting at the time. As good as earlier Who? Probably not, but I love it anyway, for what it is.

Is it this one. Bimble? I did it by typing "Endless Wire" and searching for posts.

"The Who to release new album in umpteen years."

If not, here are all mentions of "Endless Wire" on ILX. There are only a few pages of them.

Oops: http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/FullTextSearchControllerServlet?terms=%22Endless+Wire%22&offset=0&searchtype=text&startdate=&enddate=&artefact=messages&idtype=null&sortorder=Relevance&boardid=41

Also, you want SISTER DISCO

Bimble is so happy right now he's out of words to express it.

No, see, I feel I should be able to search the words with quotes around them "Endless Wire" and come up with at least something, but it gives me nothing at all. As I said before, if you don't remember that word "umpteen", you're fucked.

How did you get the next set of results exactly?

That is what I did... Maybe you're missing changing "Threads" to "Posts". Threads just looks for thread titles with "Endless Wire" in it, posts looks in the text of individual posts.

To get the next set of results, go to the bottom and click "Next".

Heard the "Live at Leeds" version of "Magic Bus" on the radio yesterday and realized in the end that may be all I really need from the Who, that live record, but I do put on "Quadrophenia" now and then. And I rarely turn off the radio when something from "Who's Next" comes on.

For UK residents

On Sky Arts tonight:

20.00 Classic Albums: The Who Sell Out (seen it)
21:00 Live At Kilburn 1977 (can't remember if this or Live At Charlton is supposed to be not very good)
22:25 Classic Quadrophenia (Townshend with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra et al. No interest in this I'm afraid!)

Seemed that Townshend was working with a lot of influence from jazz after inheriting a record collection from an upstairs neighbour who was being deported in the mid 60s.

That was actually Townshend's art school roommate Tom Wright, who passed away in July. He later went on to manage the Grande Ballroom in Detroit. Wright was a US expat, and was deported when busted for pot possession. According to Townshend's art school friend Richard Barnes, the record collection included “…all of Jimmy Reed’s albums, all of Chuck Berry’s, all of James Brown’s, Bo Diddley, John Lee Hooker, Snooks Eaglin, Mose Allison, all of Jimmy Smith’s, Muddy Waters, Lightnin’ Hopkins, Howlin’ Wolf, Slim Harpo, Buddy Guy, Big Bill Broonzy, Sonny Terry and Brownie McGhee, Joe Turner, Nina Simone, Booker T., Little Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis, Carl Perkins, the Isley Brothers, Fats Domino, the Coasters, Ray Charles, Jimmy McGriff, Brother Jack McDuff, John Patton, Bobby Bland, the Drifters, the Miracles, the Shirelles, the Impressions and many jazz albums including Charlie Parker, Mingus, Coltrane, Miles Davis, Milt Jackson, Wes Montgomery, Jimmy Giuffre, Dave Brubeck, plus albums by Jonathan Winters, Mort Sahl, Shelley Berman and particularly Lord Buckley. There were also about thirty classical albums.”

That was in 1962-63, I believe. My understanding is that very few people in the UK, outside of a handful of hipster collectors, had a collection of that size and scope at the time.

Townshend was also a Sun Ra fanatic, citing The Heliocentric Worlds of Sun Ra, Volume 1 as his favorite, and a big influence on the My Generation album ("You can't hear it in the music, but it's there somewhere.")

21:00 Live At Kilburn 1977 (can't remember if this or Live At Charlton is supposed to be not very good)

Ha, they're both considered -- mainly by the Who themselves -- a little sub-par, but the Who's "sub-par" is most other bands' "career highlight."

Kilburn was set up so there'd be some post-'75 footage for The Kids Are Alright. But everyone in the band hated the gig, so it was shelved. In mid-'78 they made another attempt, filming just the two songs ("Baba O'Riley" and "Won't Get Fooled Again") that would be used in the film.

But I and many other Who fans feel that Kilburn is a far superior performance to the later show. Moon especially is in exponentially better shape on this show than on the '78 songs, and it has the only live performance of "Who Are You" (in a slightly embryonic state) with Moon.

Good, I was definitely going to watch it anyway!

Townshend was in a foul mood which seemed to affect the rest of the band - apart from Moon who was doing his best to jolly things along.

The Isle of Wight 1970 show is worth finding, but mostly if you watch it. It's not a candidate for their greatest show like Leeds or the Fillmore in 1968, but it's a great show nonetheless and aside from the abbreviated sets at Monterey Pop and Woodstock the only show from that era that was properly filmed for almost all of it.

Newly-discovered footage of the December 3, 1979 Cincinnati show:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1Nv-MUVgTU

The Who were unaware of the tragedy until after the show. Five days later, their Chicago show was broadcast via closed-circuit to local theaters, and parts of it were released. The difference between Townshend's demeanor here and in Chicago is stark (he said in 2019 that he remembered it being a particularly good show). Here he's focused, enjoying himself, energized; on the Chicago show, he's hammered, coked to the gills, distracted, and vacillates wildly between wanting to soldier through the show and seemingly wondering what the fuck the point of it all is, given the tragic events days earlier. As he said years later, the Who should've cancelled the rest of their tour and broken up immediately after Cincinnati.

Man, that's a band even Arthur Carlson could love right there

that baba o'riley vid is stellar!

kinda deserves an xpost to a who thread

― corrs unplugged, Monday, July 31, 2023 3:37 AM (six hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Hit the "marimba repeat" switch on a Lowrey Berkshire Deluxe TBO-1, and you get this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgPtksNqbCk

^^^This video kinda blew my mind, I guess the oral legend I was told/read was the above part was a bit more edited/tape-loop/spliced etc.

That said, does anyone know if Nico's "Frozen Warnings" (song) uses the above technique or something similar?

Cool! But the little image of Don Knotts spooked me a bit.

I don't hear any electric organ on "Frozen Warnings". It sounds like Cale's violas overdubbed on Nico's harmonium, maybe with some kind of gate giving the tremolo effect. Some of the viola is also being played backwards, apparently with the same effect.

Sounds like some "repeater"/stuttering effect (like in the Baba vid) processor being applied to Nico's Harmonium, to my ears at least.

Apparently the Who's organization is working on a Who Are You Super Deluxe set. (That and A Quick One are the only two remaining Keith Moon-era albums without a super deluxe box set.)

It's usually cited as the least of the Who's Keith Moon-era albums, and I would have to agree even though I actually enjoy it. I think it's a fine album, but I rarely listen to it. I'm guessing there's at least one enjoyable live recording in the vaults, and the demos might be fine, but I can't imagine any great, lost outtakes beyond what was already included on the expanded CD reissue from the '90s.

(That and A Quick One are the only two remaining Keith Moon-era albums without a super deluxe box set.)

Ah forgot that one! Nope.

Should feature 275 alternate takes of "Success Story"

I'm enough of a fan that that is maybe unfair, but I've never owned it and never had any interest in owning it (Who Are You?), that is).

There's a Hoffman thread that gets into track speculation: https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/the-who-who-are-you-super-deluxe-edition-speculation-and-wishlist.1182711/

Haven’t listened to that album in decades but just looking at original track listing makes me want to revisit.

The 1996 remix of the song “Who are You” always sounded wrong to me, as the power chords are kinda buried compared to the original LP.

Daltrey's memoir is about as gritty and pugilistic as I expected it to be.

Yeah

"Jimmy the dip and Johnny the squirrel came backstage at the Capri Club in Stepney one night and they brought Electric George with him who had a big stick on the end of a chain, he was mouthing off about some mandrax that Moony stole from him last week in Ladbroke Grove, but that was still well out of order and I told him so, but Pete was all 'Don't hit him'."

^^Best "Wang Dang Doodle" verse.

To celebrate his 60th anniversary at Abbey Road, the studio interviewed Ken Scott, at one point asking him what was the most outrageous session he worked on:

“…there was the time Keith Moon guested on a track on the Truth album and upon leaving the car park at around 11:00pm almost ran over a little old lady walking her dog. Most people would have wound down their window and apologised, not he. He swiftly turned on the PA system built into his Rolls Royce and proceeded to curse her out with the most foul language at a VERY loud volume. EMI received more than a few complaints about that the next day.”

He was more successful at running over chauffeurs.

.

holy cow the "my wife" on here. pete is nuts. 2nd song. about 3:10 in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1G1FqWPcO-k

nice and crunchy in 1975. they were trying to save us from punk rock.

for some reason youtube started recommending me clips of the who live where all you hear is entwhistle's bass

it is florid! i don't really like the who after "sell out" (blame the singer) but you have to admit JE had super-nimble fingers

he really did. he was one of a kind. i think. maybe there were others. he played that thing like a flamenco guitar sometimes.

In the last month, I’ve bought both a Hiwatt amp and a 20” cymbal.

The Houston show from that tour was officially released on DVD as Live in Texas 75 and it's pretty great. Cheap too - you can buy a new copy for $10 from Amazon. I feel like it's the kind of thing that would've been a bigger deal 30 or 40 years ago but it kind of got lost in the shuffle when you had a million concert DVD's flooding the market in the '00s. (I didn't even know about it until several years ago.)

^^Terrific DVD, taken from the camera feed for the jumbotrons at the first concert held at the Summit (now Lakewood Church).

Moonie had some fun afterwards:
https://ultimateclassicrock.com/keith-moon-houston-party/

The article is pretty thin about what actually happened, but I remember back when Entwistle died, our local Classic Rock station took listener calls all night, and a woman who was there called in with a version of events. She said the label had a big afterparty and -- in honor of "Squeeze Box" -- they hired several strippers as entertainment, dressing them in accordions (and nothing else!) and staging them on a dais in the middle of a hotel ballroom. The group & their entourage show up, Keith is like, "Right on!" and hops up on the dais with the girls and begins stripping himself.

Meanwhile, the county sheriff's department is also on the hotel grounds, hoping for an easy drug raid and headlines aplenty. They bust in moments after Moon joined the girls on the dais, and...they just stopped, freezing at the sight they never in a million years could have predicted that is now in front of them.

Supposedly there was some palm greasing once everyone came to their senses, and no arrests made or charges brought up.