ATTN: Copyeditors and Grammar Fiends

But does anyone now use it in its proper sense? I imagine it started to get used ironically, people eventually started to take the ironic meaning as its real meaning and bingo. I'm sure there are other examples of this, although I can't think of any right now.

When it's used after a massive great cliché I can read that as sarcasm, but it seems to be used at all points along the scale from genuine coinages through "I heard this last week, do you like it?" to all levels of cliché-dom that it doesn't seem to mean anything at all.

(like half of everything ever said, then, but it bothered me when I was younger because I wasn't sure if I might be misunderstanding it completely)

xp, Zelda Zonk probably otm

if people are that defensive about their usage of cliches perhaps they shouldn't use them in the first place JUST AN IDEA

this isn't really a grammar thing

what cliche are we talking about, for the record.

any cliche

but yeah i think people just basically have no idea what it means now, and i am astonished at how irritated this makes me. "to coin" is a wonderfully evocative verb!! keep your hands off if you don't know what you're doing

funny, i would almost say to coin a phrase is a cliche

that's true - if one used "to coin a phrase" in its modern, TOTALLY WRONG sense, one might feel obligated to continue stupidly tacking on "to coin a phrase" in some kind of recursive, infinite spaz reflex

http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/concise.htm

where should I post something about when people say "I'm such an X geek!!!" or "I'm such a nerd for X!!!!" all the time wherein X is a subject of which they seemingly have only an elementary awareness/a superficial interest? it's here

Phrases you hate...

coldnrad

jeez, do you know someone who's mentored is a "mentee"? I would've guessed "mentoree."

those seem like they are both right?

yes, and also their first name is 'hugh'

Right, cos I'm an employeree of the company I work for...

but you're not employered by them

Ah, bless our wonderful language. I'm not really sure why this is an argument - there is no such word as mentoree (cf. tutoree).

Wiki says Mentee. And Wiki is always right, obviously.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mentor#.22Mentee.22

You now have used the word "mentoree", therefore it exists, albeit tenuously. BTW, I have now used it, too. It burgeons apace.

(Hurrah! I legitimately squoze an "albeit" into a sentence. Time for a beer!)

I legitimately squoze an "albeit"

how is Thailand, anyway

I believe the correct word is "Mentos"

Haha WP: "The student of a mentor is called a protégé. More accurately, for the recondite, the protégé would be called the telemachus (pl. telemachuses or telemachi)."

I think that's weak-ass reconditeness though, should obv be telemakhos (pl. telemakhoi) for maximum pedantry.

All typos are not created equal.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/apr/19/penguin-cook-book

that is fantastic

and probably not as spicy as it should be.

Can I get some suggestions for writing 'rock n roll' and its derivatives? (Rock and Roll feels pompous and unwieldy).

Rock'n'roll and thus r'n'r, is what I'm going for at the moment (no spaces, no caps). Rock 'n' roll looks stilted to my eye, even worse when it becomes r 'n' r.

Any takers for R'n'R, which presumably entails Rock'n'Roll? Dispense with the apostrophes entirely? That looks odd in abbreviation tho, I think.

God, I know it's a totally trivial thing, but it's really making my fingers itch.

rock and roll

^ agreed

in lowercase

Rock&Roll

Rock And Roll

Rock/Roll

Rocandrol.

The 'n' is part of the whole rock 'n' roll icongraphy. 'Rock and roll' might be at home in a textbook but not emblazoned on the back of a leather jacket.

rock-n-roll

Yep, ledge, that was my feeling as well.

I like the look of lower case rock and roll as relatively unobtrusive though.

There's a couple of added problems, I'm quoting a magazine article which has it as 'rock'n'roll'. Do I silently change that or just as silently ignore it when using the same phrase? I'm then quoting someone (recorded voice) who says 'rnr' and am not sure which way to do it.

Fuck it, knew I shd've been a popist. A phial of rocandrol looking v appealing at this point.

You interviewed someone who said "R and R" meaning rock and roll?? Jesus, who says this? "R & R" means "rest and relaxation". This person is a freako.

If it were me I would change any quoted text from another publication to house style. But I guess that depends on, er, house style.

'I still believe in the r'n'r dream, r'n'r as primal scream' is the actual quote, which will probably set off alarm bells for some. (For the others it's from 1978's Live at the Witch Trials by The Fall).

But yes, you're right about changing it to 'house' style, which in this case happens to be whichever style I want it to be.

Style guide
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_uB-0D-gV8mY/SduQwobgGxI/AAAAAAAAUo0/2cvmNcYXLa0/s400/ramones.jpg

therefore: ROCK N' ROLL

(see also Guns n' Roses, but not Sweet 'N Low)

Our style guide says rock'n'roll cf drum'n'bass (cf fish'n'chips).

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Question: "There are less than two weeks to consider the policies, arguments and past performance of all the parties across the country and MPs in your constituency.

There is less than two weeks? There are fewer than two weeks? it's making my head hurt.

"There's less than two weeks" is probably more correct actually, as in "There's plenty more where that came from" ?

i.e. "There is" is describing a singular situation - the fact that fewer than 14 days remain until the election, not the 14 days (or two weeks) themselves

Right. Actually, I think "We have less than two weeks... ... our constituencies" sidesteps the issue neatly! Ta.

Yeah perfect.

My God, Merriam-Webster accepts "transition" as a verb.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/transition

We've lost.

Wasn't aware that "transition"-as-verb was contentious in the way that "impact"-as-verb is.

hahah yeah it's a v. popular verb in my place of employment. i'm actually in the process of transitioning some projects right now.

hmm I would have written "there are less than two weeks left" or "less than two weeks are left"?

Yeah... "There's plenty more where that came from" would seem to work with a continuous substance e.g. paint, but say for apples, I would probably have said "there are plenty more..." and therefore "there are less than two weeks left".

but weeks are countable so you have to saw "fewer", yet saying "fewer" sounds arseholey