ITT: LEO 'KING' MESSI

it's not about messi anymore, and we are now trying to rank footballers.

happy?

it stands maradona, hoddle, le tiss, messi, modric, anderton fwiw

le tiss > ian woan > messi

I feel like messi's main talent is barrelling straight down the middle and somehow eluding everyone - it shouldn't work - but the things he does to actually accomplish this are done so subtly it's difficult to pick up except in slo mo, like a fencer or something

I just think he looks like a Lemming.

he keeps putting the ball where the defender can't get it, repeatedly, and in the direction he wants to go. pretty rare skill.

it's not about messi anymore, and we are now trying to rank footballers.

happy?

I was making a "these other guys are rank" jk. Never mind :(

*Andy Ritchie > Chic Charnley > Messi

(*the Morton one)

nah that was to LJ's fussiness onimo

oh right soz

honestly forgot about ian woan but he's obviously gotta be in there, up there with ruel fox and andy impey

I mean, come on ...

http://www.gravelstudios.com/articles/tengames/lemmings1.jpg

can't believe no mention of sami hyypia or dietmar hamann here. or titi camara.

actually sort of serious about hamann, if we're just listing brilliant players.

I've seen Messi in the flesh and he was v good but not in his sparkling ZOMG form (only scored twice lol). One thing I repeatedly noticed was his sublime control - people would ping hard fast high passes at him and you'd be thinking "oh good, Celtic throw, ease the pressure" then realise he'd controlled into his path with a single touch and was already past Lee Naylor (that last bit not too impressive tbh).

lionel who

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TNb57ZNuWQ

would kill for a hamann at liverpool now..

I watched a lot of La Liga in 96/97 when Fat Ron was at Barca and he was hands down the greatest, most exciting, most talented footballer I've seen (on the tele). To this day.

I watched a lot of Football Italia between 99 and 02 when Roma were peaking and won the league (was at uni and this was the only free terrestrial football not on at a stupid time), and Totti was a definite favourite of mine. The fact that he mixed his skill with a touch of Roy Keane-esque aggro elevated him above the likes of Del Piero in my mind; Totti liked a scrap.

Messi I want to see more of, but I can see him eclipsing Fat Ron pretty soon. Fat Ron was already ailing by 22; although his ailing years lasted a decade and included many many many goals, just nowhere near as scintillating as his Barca season. Fucking hell. I think back to that and it flabbergasts me. Despite much longer periods spent at Inter and Madrid I still think of him as a Barca player.

Henry at his peak was sublime, and the best player I think who's graced the premiership. He needed Vieira though.

Zidane while absolutely mercurial was not consistent at all; his career is a series of very important moments of brilliance rather than regular and frequent revelations of greatness. I think he managed to time his peaks brilliantly - World Cup and Champions League finals being good times to pull it out of the bag!

John Sheridan needs mentioning, though. And Carlton Palmer, the proto-Vieira.

i may be misremembering hamann- doens't mascherano basically do his job now?

or, basically- if hamann played under benitez wouldn't he be mascherano (or maybe lucas)

sadly you have an aquilani and a lucas instead - although last time you tried to sign hamann he turned out to be igor biscan iirc

was about to OTM SM (with reservations on his Zidane assessment tbh) until the mention of john fucking sheridan, half of an incredibly journeyman irish midfield with townsend for years. rubbish!

We ought to chop this thread's discussions into Best Attacker, Best Midfielder, and Best Defnder, though.

Or even just Best Forward and Best Back.

Cos Makelele's as important a player to the teams he was in as Fat Ron or Zidane, but comparing them is wrong.

Sheridan might have been shit for RoI but I blame Townsend for that; with Palmer at Wednesday Sheridan was awesome. remember that free-kick Le Tissier scored where it was rolled to him and he flicked it up and volleyed it? He nicked that off Sheridan.

who can forget the sheridan turn?

BEST TEAM

did we do a team of the decade thing already, or was it just premier league?

hamann was a better passer than masch and scored more goals, just a better all around player imo. there was some good stats about games won with hamann in that liverpool side vs without.

We need a set formation to do best team. 4-3-3?

Buffon
Cafu - Nesta - Campbell (serious) - ???
Vieira - ??? - ???
Messi - Rooney - Henry

best team as Rafa would pick it

Rafa would just go to the nearest hospital and pick one-legged kids given the opportunity.

I'd have loved to Vieira and Fabregas play together properly at Arsenal.

vieira ronaldinho nedved maybe

hmm maybe not nedved for 00-09.

cafu probably knocking on a little too in fairness- zanetti plays at RB or midfield these days?

it's an argument I shouldn't start again, but Keane better than Vieira imo.

Also, Gattuso.

Cafu won Serie A with Roma in 201 and then went to Milan. He was the best RB in the world for 2 decades straight. Zanetti's good, but...

Nedved's a great shout. Never seen someone run so much.

Dani Alves might look like some weird thug from X-Men but he's on the way.

Leftbacks is where I'm coming up short. Carlos is too 90s and even then I can't ever love him. I can't think of anyone from the last decade who's fit to lace Andreas Breheme's boots.

Keane vs Vieira is a big, long, argument. I LOVE Keane, but Vieira was pretty much as tough and influential and was a whole lot more elegant too.

Gattuso was a headless chicken. Like Davids with ADHD. He played for RANGERS fgs.

I'm almost willing to rep for Cashley at left back

Hate to say this but it might actually be Cashley at LB :/

Would a three-man midfield of Makalele, Pirlo and Zidane work?

vieira ahead of keane- there i said it.

left back-

evra? too late in the day for him to make a claim?

because there is only one alternative i can think of, and nobody likes him very much at all. (xp lol)

I can't rate Dani Alves, sorry- he's got great talent but his concentration is so poor- his delivery is just crazily inconsistent.

vieira had skills keane could only dream of. having said that, keane had that aggression and competitive edge that few if any other players have.

I'd have Keane and Vieira together, actually, them and Nedved. Fuck Zidane. No lazies in my team.

Cashley probably is the best LB shout but he's such a little cunt I just wont accept it. There MUST be better. I'd accept Evra at a push.

LAHM

Only other plausible left backs I can think of are van Bronckhorst, Panucci and (I think) Sorin

None acceptable, including Lahm. sorry.

LB Roberto Carlos

I would have xavi iniesta and zidane in my midfield vs SM United. fuck compromise!

Yes, too many Premiership players in the team