they aren't first rate players, cf sacchi on gerrard 'a great player though not a great footballer'
― nakhchivan, Thursday, 18 March 2010 01:08 (fourteen years ago) link
peak longevity comes into it too i think. gerrard may well have elevated himself because of sheer consistency of form- again maybe lampard on this score?
not to the top table of players tho, agreed
― DarraghmacKwacz (darraghmac), Thursday, 18 March 2010 01:09 (fourteen years ago) link
cannavaro ought to be somewhere in yr tier system, also maybe rio ferdinand
― ilxor lookin' boy (acoleuthic), Thursday, 18 March 2010 01:10 (fourteen years ago) link
none of these players are anywhere near messi
― i am under no illusions that my opinions are even that interesting to me (dan m), Thursday, 18 March 2010 01:13 (fourteen years ago) link
not gerrard or lampard, but fucked if ferdinand doesn't deserve consideration on a 5-7 year scale tbh
― DarraghmacKwacz (darraghmac), Thursday, 18 March 2010 01:13 (fourteen years ago) link
sure and nesta above all xxp but wasn't thinking of defensive players, i think there's an argument they should have a separate hierarchy as they would in amerikanische football
i think you can just about compare the virtues of xavi and shevchenko in terms of their offensive capacity but eg xavi and nesta? types too incompatible imo
― nakhchivan, Thursday, 18 March 2010 01:16 (fourteen years ago) link
imo there's something a mite distasteful about an ilx thread celebrating such an already-celebrated footballer. it's very much in the style of the american sport boards. the bullard and kitson threads had something this can never have. football is always bigger than one man
ferdinand has been england's best player other than rooney and scholes that i have witnessed in my life of football fandom
― ilxor lookin' boy (acoleuthic), Thursday, 18 March 2010 01:17 (fourteen years ago) link
yeah agreed.
so to recap
messi the greatest right now, c ronaldo loses points for using his physical abilities to an unfair advantage.
messi not the undisputed greatest of the new millenium, but definitely better than henry.
rooney better up front than in defence.
― DarraghmacKwacz (darraghmac), Thursday, 18 March 2010 01:19 (fourteen years ago) link
'yeah agreed' was xp. i disagree entirely with lj
― DarraghmacKwacz (darraghmac), Thursday, 18 March 2010 01:20 (fourteen years ago) link
:)ferdinand ahead of scholes in terms of 'england' players tho tbh
Ok lets do this
MessiHenry (w/ Bergkamp)Ronaldo (pre-fat)Zidane (w/ Davids)RonaldinhoZidane (w/ anybody else)NedvedHenry (w/ anybody else)XaviBergkampFigoCannavaroBuffonCristianoMakeleleIniestaVieiraDrogbaNestaPiresCambiassoPirloVillaLampardEssienMilan's Shevchenko
fuck anyone else
― he might have even have gone in. (a hoy hoy), Thursday, 18 March 2010 07:24 (fourteen years ago) link
I guess Thuram, Casillas and Seedorf should be in there somewhere as well.
LJ- This is just a one-off. Not gonna be making a thread for every lol superstar. Helps that Messi is incredibly likable and seems like he won't end up being a Tiger Woods or whatever.
I don't know if CR9 is faster than Messi. The only thing he has on him is height and that doesn't really matter when he can do this:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/images.nachofoto.com/b-Lionel-Messi-one-of--47c0b850868e.jpeg
― he might have even have gone in. (a hoy hoy), Thursday, 18 March 2010 07:29 (fourteen years ago) link
actually sorry was supposed to put pre-fat ronaldo above henry.
A hoy hoy, I think you've compiled a list of the best players of the past 10ish years! ...and then you've taken out the Manchester United and Liverpool players and replaced them with also-rans from shitty london teams.
― tomofthenest, Thursday, 18 March 2010 09:50 (fourteen years ago) link
liverpool player(s)
fuck this imo, if we're dropping the scale that low then i want ginola, berbatov and modric in STAT
makelele don't belong, btw- not that i didn't rate him, but 'makelele is so underrated' has become a rong cliche. dude had good positional sense but he's not on a list of late 90's - 00's greats.
paricularly one that vieira nor keane make.
― DarraghmacKwacz (darraghmac), Thursday, 18 March 2010 09:54 (fourteen years ago) link
i had cristiano? don't think gerrard is on a par with them? shitty london teams? van nistelrooy isn't close, vidic maybe? can't think of another liverpool player who would come close to such a list other than the eternally injured torres?
― he might have even have gone in. (a hoy hoy), Thursday, 18 March 2010 09:56 (fourteen years ago) link
Zidane is miles clear in this, surely? World Cup performances are what really counts if you're talking about greatness, and if Buffon hadn't made that save in extra-time he'd've dragged France to two of them.
― Ismael Klata, Thursday, 18 March 2010 09:57 (fourteen years ago) link
oh yeah btw zidane is miles clear in this- even though i'd say he didn't really perform to his best at world cup tournaments proper? that's what it seemed to me at the time anyway.
― DarraghmacKwacz (darraghmac), Thursday, 18 March 2010 09:59 (fourteen years ago) link
Why not Van Nistelrooy, btw? He was better in his position than Makelele was in his.
― DarraghmacKwacz (darraghmac), Thursday, 18 March 2010 10:00 (fourteen years ago) link
xps sorry, i see vieira made that list. well ok then.
― DarraghmacKwacz (darraghmac), Thursday, 18 March 2010 10:01 (fourteen years ago) link
Re France and world cups, it bugs me that whenever I see retrospectives on 98 they put Henry in a starring role, which is absolutely not how it happened.
― Ismael Klata, Thursday, 18 March 2010 10:04 (fourteen years ago) link
France 98 start players were who? desailly, blanc, petit, i don't think anybody really shone upfront?
― DarraghmacKwacz (darraghmac), Thursday, 18 March 2010 10:06 (fourteen years ago) link
Guivar'c'h up front every game. Henry didn't even get on in the final, though he did outscore Guivar'c'h, as did everyone else.
― Ismael Klata, Thursday, 18 March 2010 10:09 (fourteen years ago) link
Zidane >>>> all others but if we're talking forwards then it's Messi all the way for me. Fuck an Henry, even at his peak he was vying with Van Nistelrooy in the Premiership alone and no one's seriously claiming HIM to be best player in the world material at any point.
Also, I'm a traditionalist, and Zidane having done it in the World Cup elevates him above Ronaldo for me.
― Maraca Son Sistema (Matt DC), Thursday, 18 March 2010 10:11 (fourteen years ago) link
Cristiano, that is, not Fat Ron.
― Maraca Son Sistema (Matt DC), Thursday, 18 March 2010 10:12 (fourteen years ago) link
Take off the Premiership goggles and ask some French ILXors what they think of Henry.
― The Oort Locker (Tom D.), Thursday, 18 March 2010 10:12 (fourteen years ago) link
if we're talking forwards then it's a highlander for fat ronaldo, bacause you can't have it both ways about 'he's done it at the world cup' tbh
― DarraghmacKwacz (darraghmac), Thursday, 18 March 2010 10:14 (fourteen years ago) link
Fat Ronaldo's peak years were 90s though. I regret not having seen him much then, from legend he was incredible. He was good in 2002 as well, but then his team were so obviously superior to everyone else there, even England.
― Ismael Klata, Thursday, 18 March 2010 10:19 (fourteen years ago) link
zidane's peak years arguably 90's too, and why isn't rivaldo being considered?
― DarraghmacKwacz (darraghmac), Thursday, 18 March 2010 10:24 (fourteen years ago) link
i mean fat ron is gonna pwn this year's world cup, frank zidane isn't even in line for an algerian call up iirc
― DarraghmacKwacz (darraghmac), Thursday, 18 March 2010 10:00 (23 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
Van Nistelrooy not included for the Trezeguet principle. Also United went through their worst Premiership spell while he was seen as their main forward. Makelele made arguably the two best teams of the past decade. Don't see how this is a thing.
Fat Ronaldo at Real was still pretty special.
― he might have even have gone in. (a hoy hoy), Thursday, 18 March 2010 10:28 (fourteen years ago) link
Yeah, I always feel Rivaldo gets a raw deal - probably because he's basically unlikeable though. The main image of his career isn't his hattrick against Valencia, it's pretending to get hit in the face then running off to the middle east and Uzbekistan to get more money.
― Ismael Klata, Thursday, 18 March 2010 10:29 (fourteen years ago) link
and once Argentina sort their shit out and win the 2014 2010 WC he will be rightly crowned as the modern Pele/Di Stefano. <--- fixed
― The Oort Locker (Tom D.), Thursday, 18 March 2010 10:29 (fourteen years ago) link
Rivaldo was pretty great but for some reason I remember him more for his lol milan years. See also: Shevchenko as a Chelsea player ruining it all.
Player who if he wasn't injured all the damn time should be included in the discussion- Recoba.
Players I'm not sure why they aren't included in the discussion because they were arguably as good as most of these second and third tier players; I guess they are just unlikable- Totti, Vieri, Del Piero, Raul.
― he might have even have gone in. (a hoy hoy), Thursday, 18 March 2010 10:32 (fourteen years ago) link
never 'got' del piero, have never really been convinced by him. freely admit that italian football isn't a huge area of knowledge tho.
Van nistelrooy scored goals for a living like arguably no other player on this list, he's in.
totti makes it vieri doesn't, raul i can live without tbh
― DarraghmacKwacz (darraghmac), Thursday, 18 March 2010 10:43 (fourteen years ago) link
My favourite player who'd never make a list like this is Fernando Redondo.
― Ismael Klata, Thursday, 18 March 2010 10:49 (fourteen years ago) link
Mine's is Henrik Larsson (obviously)
― The Oort Locker (Tom D.), Thursday, 18 March 2010 10:53 (fourteen years ago) link
btw rivaldo's hat-trick against valencia- single most amazing football performance/achievement of the decade
― DarraghmacKwacz (darraghmac), Thursday, 18 March 2010 11:12 (fourteen years ago) link
true
― nakhchivan, Thursday, 18 March 2010 11:17 (fourteen years ago) link
i mean, specifically for unnamed persons this, it was EVEN BETTER THAN ARSHAVIN VS LIVERPOOL!
― DarraghmacKwacz (darraghmac), Thursday, 18 March 2010 11:22 (fourteen years ago) link
fie upon thee
― ilxor lookin' boy (acoleuthic), Thursday, 18 March 2010 11:43 (fourteen years ago) link
ICE COLD
― max, Thursday, 18 March 2010 11:48 (fourteen years ago) link
didn't even have to check who wrote that
― mdskltr (blueski), Thursday, 18 March 2010 11:49 (fourteen years ago) link
tiger_woods_press_conference.wav
― ilxor lookin' boy (acoleuthic), Thursday, 18 March 2010 11:57 (fourteen years ago) link
it's ok to celebrate footballers as long as they're workmanlike and english. ok, whatever.
― DJ Get Up Kids (jim in glasgow), Thursday, 18 March 2010 12:04 (fourteen years ago) link
they don't have to be either! i just think it's way easier to say funnier and more interesting things about little-known or cult players, or at least ones who are seemingly flawed. messi is brilliant at what he does, and there's no real debate about him unless we're talking about boring things like absolutes
― ilxor lookin' boy (acoleuthic), Thursday, 18 March 2010 12:07 (fourteen years ago) link
we shouldnt have threads about brilliant people
― max, Thursday, 18 March 2010 12:09 (fourteen years ago) link
this thread started as just a celebration and devolved into boring discussion because someone challopsed that Messi was comparable to le tissier, most likely trolling.
― DJ Get Up Kids (jim in glasgow), Thursday, 18 March 2010 12:10 (fourteen years ago) link
tbf maybe this thread really is better off just compiling his best moments and being all 'whoa' rather than attempting to rank footballers
― ilxor lookin' boy (acoleuthic), Thursday, 18 March 2010 12:11 (fourteen years ago) link
i've either never seen messi play or never seen him play well because i've been to barcelona games 3 or 4 times in recent years but don't remember seeing him do his magic irl :(
― DJ Get Up Kids (jim in glasgow), Thursday, 18 March 2010 12:13 (fourteen years ago) link