Taylor Swift: Fearless Poll

conversely a lot of the anti-taylor snideness here and elsewhere strikes me as almost-not-at-all veiled contempt for the idea that teenage blonde girls could have anything at all to say.

they dont, really! i mean i guess u can call t.swift's suburban fairly tale garbage "universal" or w/e but catching feelings off a taylor swift jam is just lol.

Which are the T Swift songs that involve fairies, goblins, elves, trolls, giants or gnomes? That's more like some Finnish metal shit right there.

conversely a lot of the anti-taylor snideness here and elsewhere strikes me as almost-not-at-all veiled contempt for the idea that teenage blonde girls could have anything at all to say.

I don't see why it's even snobby to suggest that your average suburban teenage girl who hasn't finished high school isn't going to have a ton of interesting insights into the world. most of her songwriting ideas seem to come from MTV movies. there's zero depth (musically or lyrically) to any of this stuff and I mean, it's not her fault or anything - people shouldn't be looking for it. reading things in the taylor swift tea leaves is just sorta sad - the absurdist taylor swift analysis paragraphs say more about ilx than they do about her.

ever heard an English/Film Theory/etc... major?

i don't know really what "lyrical depth" entails, but taylor swift's best songs seem honest and clear in a way that goes well beyond cliché. and i mean, not all her songs are her best ones, and she obviously uses plenty of clichés, and even some of my favorites of hers i like more for the tune and the vibe than the words per se. but if songs like "fifteen" and "the best day" don't seem artful and true to you, then i dunno. maybe you just have different ideas about artful and true.

or something like "our song," which is just zippy and fun but has a clever little lyrical device in the chorus.

What type of music do you like, iatee and Lamp?

lamp has really good taste

Not questioning that. I'm just.asking.

uh, my itunes top played artists are john cale, smog, jacques brel and the beach boys. have at me.

seriously if Rilo Kiley could write even one song even 10% as enjoyable as anything on Fearless i'd be pretty surprised.

You haven't even attempted to discuss this on the basis of her music, it's "teenage music shouldn't be taken seriously". Why should you be taken seriously?

I don't see why it's even snobby to suggest that your average suburban teenage girl who hasn't finished high school isn't going to have a ton of interesting insights into the world.

She's 20 years old and got her high school diploma in 2008. Not that that necessarily impacts the point you're trying to make, I guess, but still. And not to make untoward comparisons, but, like, John Lennon wrote "In My Life" when he was 25, you know?

seriously if Rilo Kiley could write even one song even 10% as enjoyable as anything on Fearless i'd be pretty surprised.

Well, this is just nonsense.

do we really need to bring sockpuppets into this discussion xp

we've been discussing nothing *but* the basis of her music

seriously if Rilo Kiley could write even one song even 10% as enjoyable as anything on Fearless i'd be pretty surprised.

I'm only a casual Taylor Swift fan (enjoy the singles, can't be bothered to pay $ for the album and hear the other songs) but this is the most OTM thing I've seen on this thread all week.

iatee, you are a fucking retard.

wikipedia says: 'In July 2008, Swift graduated from the Aaron Academy, a Christian school in Hendersonville, Tennessee, which offers a home-schooling program'

haha sounds like she was trying to get into the UT football program

John Lennon wrote "In My Life" when he was 25, you know?

is your point 'young people can write good songs'? that's not being debated. but 'in my life' doesn't sound like a song that was limited by the author's limited experience w/ this world. 'you belong with me' does.

When he was 18, he wrote "Lve Me Do."

can't wait for taylor's revolution no.9

Is that something to be proud of?

Serious question, not trolling. Taylor has written better songs than "Love Me Do."

xpost

liking taylor swift isn't that hard

man if only we could have a taste as great as iatee, think of all the complicated music we could appreciate

so you're saying...there's music more complex than taylor swift? do tell!

is your point 'young people can write good songs'? that's not being debated. but 'in my life' doesn't sound like a song that was limited by the author's limited experience w/ this world. 'you belong with me' does.

Maybe so, maybe not, but it's not contingent on the writer being your average suburban teenage girl who hasn't finished high school.

so glad we're finally comparing taylor swift to the beatles

after her next album comes out and it's more of the same, except a little worse and you guys get bored.

<3 music that "progresses"

No, I was trying to make a point about how ""Love me do isnt that great of a song, ut Lennon grew, whereas TSwift has written a beast like "Forever and Always" it is fine musical craftsmanship

xpost
and of course her next album definitely could be more of the same but not as good, and it might be boring. but fearless will still sound great.

Also, I've only heard the singles off of "Fearless," but, like, the sudden Rilo Kiley slagging is baffling to me. I enjoy "Wires and Waves," "Silver Lining," "I Never" and "Breaking Up" at least as much as anything Taylor Swift has ever done.

xxp

so glad we're finally comparing taylor swift to the beatles

See, this is a strawman, which is why I said I didn't want to make untoward comparisons. You're the one who brought up her (incorrect) age and the (incorrect) fact that she's in high school. If you don't want people to engage with dumb fucking arguments, don't make them.

so sorry I said she was in high school when she really graduated from some online christian diploma mill?

i need my artists to 'speak to me'.

lyrical depth is v important to me

i am an altbro. we are all altbros

I think I broke k3vin k :(

i don't know really what "lyrical depth" entails, but taylor swift's best songs seem honest and clear in a way that goes well beyond cliché.

idk i think "lyrical depth" requires a distance & nuance that a 20 yo or 18yo or w/e the fuck she was when she wrote those songs doesnt really have. or at least that she doesnt. like the song abt her rad family & getting malts & car rides cuz sum1 made fun of her ratface in junior high - i can see liking that songs blatant emotionalism but its too str8 forward and unalloyed to be "deep" or really worthy of much thought. its a nice song & its p catchy but its entirely flat. i mean mb u can read something in the irony of a teenager posing her past self as unknowing (the bit abt the leaves) or w/e but... its 2 much.

lamp you are the man but i pretty much disagree with every point you just made there. maybe we should all just take a step back

seriously if Rilo Kiley could write even one song even 10% as enjoyable...

Oh come on. That's silly.

i mean at least i am going to. i feel like i'm arguing with sarah palin

Carole King wrote "Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow" when she was 18. Stevie Wonder wrote "Uptight" when he was 16. Age is a red herring here, folks. If you want to argue there's something inherent about Swift particularly, that's fine, but falling back on ZOMG SHE'S A TEENAGER WHAT COULD SHE POSSIBLY KNOW ABOUT LIFE will get you exactly noplace.

wtf kinda sense does that make, you listen to the sarah palin of music

carole king and stevie wonder didn't limit their subject matter to songs about being a teenager. her age comes up because it's all she fucking sings about.

yeah i think we're the sarah palin in this equation, kev

uh, my itunes top played artists are john cale, smog, jacques brel and the beach boys

Hey, how about those deep, meaningful, engaged-with-the-world lyrics Mike Love and Brian Wilson wrote when they were 19 and 20 amirite?

if carole king wrote 'will you still love me after 3rd period' and stevie wonder wrote 'uptight: about homework I don't want to do', people might like those songs less

taylor should cover porpoise song imo

i think age gets brought up so much w/r/t to t.swift because a) she mentions it all the time ihs b) most of themes are articulated in p teenage way and c) theres a p omnipresent teenage quality to her music - its brash emotionalism & its immediacy &c - that makes it hard to avoid talking abt.

i mean this is more time than i ever wanted to spend thinking abt taylor swift so w/e its all subjective.

oh & my most played album in itunes is nachtstrom's 17 songs after midnight. so yeah

haha beach boys lyrics are awful, even when they're good! they had some other things going for em. taylor swift don't.

carole king and stevie wonder didn't limit their subject matter to songs about being a teenager. her age comes up because it's all she fucking sings about.

― iatee, Thursday, March 4, 2010 5:09 PM (5 minutes ago)

these rappers only rap about "pimpin and bitches"

Dude, she's a teenage girl. Teenage girls tend to lead pretty insular lives. I'm okay with her sticking to that for now, because she does it pretty well.

those guys aren't rappers, you should prolly listen to more old music kev xp

Next people are going to me telling me that I should check out Metric for some really intense female songwriting with depth, as i'm just fronting with this enjoying things that are obviously good business. Confusing place ILM.