but that's what julio is saying! except then he sees a chance to "break da mould" or something
― Bob Zemko, Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Snotty Moore, Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Martin Skidmore, Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Sean, Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Michael Bourke, Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Mark- I have only one Zappa album- Guitar- a 2 CD set of his solos. Good guitarist but he writes some poor arrangements for his fellow players. You can see why some people hate zappa's solo career. But I rather listen to his guitar playing than stooges/MC5.
Iggy gets good reviews from Ben and I couldn't care less. He has 'atitude' but the music sucks, and that's the biggest crime of all.
'i think the mc5 are overrated, but i may possibly nevah have heard them, i just find the way ppl talk abt them boring'
that's because they are boring. I could try and analyse Kick out of the jams and give a blow by blow account on this album but life is too short, and I have to catch up on my anthony braxton CDs.
― Julio Desouza, Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― kiwi, Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Because, rather simply and bluntly put, it ROCKS! Have ye not ears? Listen to that riff!!!!
Don't be such a knee-jerk critic-o-phobe. It undermines your argument, and just makes you look like a contrarian. True, critics do slather needlessly all over certain artists, but in this particular case, I'd wager they're on to something.
― Alex in NYC, Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
HOWEVER: [[A => B] => C] = [-C => - [A => B]].
Hence ppl talk abt them boringly for othah reasons
― mark s, Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Anyway, I like the MC5. Good rawk and roll and hysterical banter. I'd love to see someone prove that it is "bad" though. Hehehehe.
― Alex in SF, Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Tracer Hand, Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Alex- I love listening to the sound of the guitar. But I can't hear what is obvious to you and therefore I will say it's rubbish.
Mark- I did not imply that braxton is boring. What's all that other gibberish.
'Hence ppl talk abt them boringly for othah reasons'
which are?
No, it can't be proven by science. But it doesn't matter.
'Wow, someone sounds like a total prat. Doesn't bug the living fuck out of me though. Just makes me giggle.'
And I don't give a shit either. But all I've done is to disagree with another person's opinion.
"what are these reasons?" — i haf no idea: logic need not concern itself w.substantive detail (which is lucky for me)
Right, I forgot. Only black men from the 60s with saxophones can make "fiery, soulful" music. Melissa's not the only one you're bugging the fuck out of. And I like Anthony Braxton.
― Clarke B., Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
I actually don't like terms like fire music in relation to free jazz. It's a stupid term made up just to sell this music. Anthony braxton is not 'classfied' as fire. You've read my comment wrongly.
Partly I asked this question 'cos I was wondering why the current crop of 'exciting' white boy rock classicists - The Strokes, The Hives, Black Rebel Motorcyle Club etc - totally avoid ANY kind of overtly 'political' content, unlike the MC5.
And I think Wayne Kramer is one of the all-time great rock guitarists, as if such a thing still matters at this late stage in the game...
― Andrew L, Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
I know Braxton isn't typically categorized as "fire," I just mentioned him because he had been mentioned quite a few times already in the thread. And I was also trying to pre-empt any snide comments you might care to throw my way about my ignorance of the matter at hand. I don't want to start a fight or anything, I just feel like you're coming across kind of harshly; it's comments like the ones you've been making lately that give fans of experimental and avant- garde music a bad rep.
Are you quoting someone here, Clarke? 'Cause if you are, I'd like to see the context. Of course if you look hard enough you'll probably find some classicist free jazz musicians, just as you'll find classicists musicians/fans of any genre. But offhand I can't think of any free jazz purists-- and you'd think that if a lot of them were lurking, that Spring Heel Jack record from last year and the new Matt Shipp would've brought them out of the woodwork big time. These were, after all, very high profile releases by just about the most high profile players out there, and if you go over to, like, freejazz.org, you won't see much if any backlash. So I'm not sure how anyone could reasonably argue that "present-day free jazzers" are as classicist as Wynton.
Not completely sure what this adds to the discussion, 'cause I pretty much agree with you, but the sort of sneering Julio's doing, while obnoxious, is only tangentially related to the defensive purist sneering you're talking about in your last post.
― charlie va, Sunday, 17 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
mc5 are ok. some good rocking. as for punk coming out of mc5, or the residents or the stooges or beefheart or whatever. it's not a one- band thing anyway.
― olly 360, Sunday, 17 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Well, they didn't pull it off with any sort of conviction.
'I think it's funny that Julio is getting all Free Jazz snob on us'
Not at all I love guitar bands like Dead C and Fuchitsusha for instance, electroacoustic music, free improv and a some indie bands like husker du and low and some punk as well. Don't misinterpret my comments on the MC5 to come up with that conclusion.
'The MC5's 'project' of combining James Brown, Sun Ra and The Who'
Well, I rather listen to james brown and sun ra. Yes, and john sinclair I think had the tapes for 'it is forbidden' (recently issued recording of a gig where the arkestra opened for James brown). They may have had the idea but from the records I don't actually think they did a good at putting together these influences to come up with something new or even something to listen to. The band had no 'dynamics'.
'the worst thing about zappa must be the guitar solos. it's a bunch wanking. zappa without the jokes couldn't be more boring to me. and that seems to be the kinda stuff you are into.'
See my comments up there. Other guitarists I like: Keiji haino, Masayuki takayanagi, Michael Morley, Keith levene, Blood Ulmer, derek bailey, keith rowe and yes, Farnk Zappa.
― Julio Desouza, Sunday, 17 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― mark s, Sunday, 17 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
I always find it problematic when people try to be funny or when they (lyricists) try 'poetical' langague though I love beeefheart's lyrics.
'but the sort of sneering Julio's doing, while obnoxious' It's not obnoxious is it? I used the f-word in my first post but I just refuse to accept this guff abt MC5.
And i just want to add that terms like 'free' in free jazz don't describe the variety within 'it'. But lets not forget that we use such terms so that we can get some discussion going.
― J, Sunday, 17 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Clarke B., Sunday, 17 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― chaki, Sunday, 17 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
(BTW yes i like them tons...best alb. = "High Time"...everything i'd care to say has already been said here tho)
― , Sunday, 17 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Sean Carruthers, Sunday, 17 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
I accept that I might have implied that BUT as I've said before I like rock. I, in fact, love it. Goddamit, its the first i started listening to.
I've never said the MC5 was caveman rock. They tried to match free jazz WITH rock. Just like, say, the stooges and what I've said is that from listening to the records, they don't pull it off.
'Plus, your list of guitarists reads like a "The Insufferable Hipster's Top Ten Guitar Gods" thread on ILM.'
I'm not being a hipster: someone else started it because I said I liked Zappa's guitar playing (because mark asked me whether I liked zappa and if I was a hipster he wouldn't be on my list). So I cited other guitarists that I liked because that person said it was a load of wanking.
Again, I've listened to many more (Others I didn't mention: D. Boon, Bob mould, Stefan jaworzyn, rudolph grey, etc.). These are all really good guitarists that I like and if some people haven't heard them and they haven't listened to some of the records these people were in then they should give it a go.
― Julio Desouza, Monday, 18 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― mark s, Monday, 18 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
I think people are being too harsh on Julio though. He's a poster with a limited range of tastes and his position on the MC5 is perfectly consistent. To someone who listens to the stuff he does the MC5 probably sound like Gorillaz do to lots of us, i.e. a misplaced, patronising and botched hybridisation.
― Tom, Monday, 18 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Tom- my brother likes Goraillaz, so I got to know what they sound like. Unlucky for me.
The problem isn't really one of limited tastes, but of limited social skills.
― Alex in SF, Monday, 18 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
tom - nah don't reckon. *everyone* i have *ever known* likes all the same shit he likes,& they all wuv the '5.
― duane, Monday, 18 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
And I think I'm prob. guilty of overegging the MC5 jazz-rock pud. Most often they sound like The Who...
― Andrew L, Monday, 18 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― , Monday, 18 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
I've no problem with people being harsh to me. Because this is a discussion group and I'm providing some disagreement and I'm more than happy to defend my position. This thread would have been over and done with hadn't I done so.
'The problem isn't really one of limited tastes, but of limited social skills. '
You are the one calling me an 'insufferable wank' so you are the one who needs to work on your social skills but thanks I am highly amused.
By the way: I hate a lot of groups that have been give the 'wire' seal of approval as well. Including the MC5.
No, you are! mimes sticking out tongue
(i wasn't calling you a doorag julio, i wuz calling duane doorag a doorag)
Also that Ted Taylor tune is fucking boss
― Gorgeous Ladies Of Curling (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Thursday, 25 February 2010 02:36 (fourteen years ago) link
Yeah, I was kind of surprised when I first heard it to hear how close the MC5 stayed to the original - obviously they rock it up a bit, but all the good stuff in their version is right there in the Ted Taylor tune.
― Brio, Thursday, 25 February 2010 15:09 (fourteen years ago) link
The comparison between those two videos is like the perfect example why rock music sucks compared to R&B/soul. That MC5 dude can't sing at all, and the awesome groove is lost under guitar theatrics.
― Tuomas, Friday, 26 February 2010 14:13 (fourteen years ago) link
awww come on. there's room for awesome R&B grooves and bad singing/guitar theatrics rock music in the world.
― Brio, Friday, 26 February 2010 15:40 (fourteen years ago) link
One thing that flips my wig on that Ted Taylor 45 is the production is credited to Billy Sherrill, which is probably is the same guy eventually known for the country-politan sound of early 70s recordings by George Jones, Tammy Wynette and Charlie Rich.
The music biz used to be a way smaller place.
― earlnash, Sunday, 28 February 2010 05:09 (fourteen years ago) link
RIP Michael Davis:
Michael Davis, the bassist of influential late 1960s rock band MC5, has died of liver failure, his wife said Saturday. He was 68.Davis died at Enloe Medical Center in Chico, Calif., on Friday afternoon after a month-long hospitalization for liver disease, said Angela Davis.
Davis died at Enloe Medical Center in Chico, Calif., on Friday afternoon after a month-long hospitalization for liver disease, said Angela Davis.
― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 19 February 2012 05:42 (twelve years ago) link
aw man
― Janet Snakehole (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 19 February 2012 05:57 (twelve years ago) link
RIP
I stood frontrow before him during the '04 reunion show here. After the show I swiped his setlist only to have this cute girl ask me to see it and run away after I handed it over.
Fortunately I was able to get back to the stage to steal Marshall Crenshaw's copy.
― Mike Love Costume Jewelry on Etsy (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 19 February 2012 06:11 (twelve years ago) link
This is deeply saddening. A good friend of mine played with him in Destroy All Monsters, had nothing but nice things to say about him.
― Let A Man Come In And Do The Cop Porn (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Sunday, 19 February 2012 06:31 (twelve years ago) link
oh shit.
i was facebook 'friends' with him, he always seemed very happy and content and full of life. what a fucking huge bummer
― Stormy Davis, Sunday, 19 February 2012 07:14 (twelve years ago) link
http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/308419_258302137553306_100001205648611_799405_640381130_n.jpg
― Stormy Davis, Sunday, 19 February 2012 07:17 (twelve years ago) link
;_;
― Janet Snakehole (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 19 February 2012 07:20 (twelve years ago) link
Looking over thread...
One thing that flips my wig on that Ted Taylor 45 is the production is credited to Billy Sherrill, which is probably is the same guy eventually known for the country-politan sound of early 70s recordings by George Jones, Tammy Wynette and Charlie Rich.The music biz used to be a way smaller place.
Billy Sherrill also produced some of The Remains studio stuff. Also, I have a copy of Jerry Lee Lewis doing "Ramblin' Rose" near the end of his Sun tenure. Supposedly he recorded it first, but his version didn't hit the streets 'til '69-70.
― Mike Love Costume Jewelry on Etsy (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 19 February 2012 07:48 (twelve years ago) link
oh man, so sad to hear. <3 you always.
― Little GTFO (contenderizer), Sunday, 19 February 2012 07:54 (twelve years ago) link
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/185460_209570895759764_100001205648611_626752_5849388_n.jpg
― Stormy Davis, Sunday, 19 February 2012 09:19 (twelve years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwV5Sqlhlgctheir earliest footage unless I'm mistaken. Shows them off as dandyish, I always thought they were a jeans & tshirt band until I heard that they had wives and girlfriends making a lot of clothes for them.
Sorry to hear about Mike Davis, hope he didn't suffer too much at the end. He was in hospital for a month. So have to assume he must have been.
Do wish somebody would release a compi of whatever complete footage with sound there is. Would love to see a True Testimonial released, it's a pretty good film.So wonder if this death will trigger any new releases. A remastered set of lps would be good too. & will assume that Easy action will rerelease Purity, Accuracy the box set of rehearsal & live material.
― Stevolende, Sunday, 19 February 2012 11:21 (twelve years ago) link
Aww RIP Mike Davis.
Been listening to High Time like crazy lately, kind of an amazing record and I wish it hadn't taken me forever to get that.
― Will the waveform be unbroken? (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Sunday, 19 February 2012 13:36 (twelve years ago) link
My brother texted me this news this morning. RIP Mike D. MC2 now?
― Charles Kennedy Jumped Up, He Called 'Oh No'. (Tom D.), Sunday, 19 February 2012 13:37 (twelve years ago) link
Just reading various stuff about him on the internet this evening and it sounds like he was a genuinely good dude all round.
― Feebs K-Tel (NickB), Sunday, 19 February 2012 22:06 (twelve years ago) link
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_BuYbahkdFpY/S8_W3jdw2oI/AAAAAAAAADE/sU6lCY8I-Ys/s1600/-2.jpg
woooah, some people here seem to totally miss the point of the mc5. man, this is some fucking batshit freak the fuck out wild music. the energy and vibe they put out is phenomenal and they definitely set a high note for that kinda style. if you don't feel it, that's cool, but I'll never get enough of it.
― Spectrum, Thursday, 13 December 2012 00:59 (eleven years ago) link
Hello.
https://www.metrotimes.com/city-slang/archives/2017/06/13/brothers-and-sisters-wayne-kramer-uploads-rare-remastered-mc5-footage-to-youtube
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 13 June 2017 13:13 (six years ago) link
oh wow
― cast your vote for fully automated gay space luxury communism (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 13 June 2017 13:20 (six years ago) link
Holyyyyy fuck at this:
Wayne Kramer, the founding guitarist and leader of Detroit's proto-punk/hard rock band the MC5, will celebrate the landmark anniversary of its incendiary debut album Kick Out the Jams with the 35+ date "Kick Out the Jams: The 50th Anniversary Tour" and a memoir The Hard Stuff: Dope, Crime, the MC5, and My Life of Impossibilities (Da Capo Press). Kramer has put together his wish-list worthy band of fellow travelers, dubbed MC50 -- Brother Wayne on guitar along with guitarist Kim Thayil (Soundgarden), drummer Brendan Canty (Fugazi), bassist Dug Pinnick (King's X), and the afro'd secret weapon frontman, 6-foot-7-inch Marcus Durant (Zen Guerrilla).
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 6 March 2018 15:11 (six years ago) link
Dug Pinnick on bass, cool. Only festival dates in Europe, though :/
― willem, Tuesday, 6 March 2018 15:56 (six years ago) link
seriously - Pinnick, Thaiyl and Canty could be one of the greatest bands ever assembled
― It's not delivery, it's Adorno! (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 6 March 2018 16:28 (six years ago) link
lol at the cruel snapshot of an early ilm argument at the start of this thread
my braxton joke is good tho
― mark s, Tuesday, 6 March 2018 16:38 (six years ago) link
We got tour dates:
9/5 - Ft. Lauderdale, FL @ Revolution Live9/6 - St. Augustine, FL @ Backyard Stage at St. Augustine Amphitheatre9/7 - Atlanta, GA @ Variety Playhouse 9/8 - Raleigh, NC @ Hopscotch Music Festival9/9 - Nashville, TN @ Exit/In9/11 - Washington, DC @ 9:30 Club9/12 - New Haven, CT @ College Street Music Hall9/13 - Boston, MA @ Paradise Rock Club9/14 - Huntington, NY @ The Paramount9/15 - Philadelphia, PA @ Union Transfer9/17 - New York, NY @ Irving Plaza9/18 - Montreal, QC @ Corona Theatre9/19 - Toronto, ON @ Danforth Music Hall9/21 - Pittsburgh, PA @ Mr. Smalls Theatre9/22 - Grand Rapids, MI @ 20 Monroe Live9/23 - Cleveland, OH @ House of Blues9/25 - Milwaukee, WI @ Turner Hall Ballroom9/26 - St. Louis, MO @ The Ready Room9/28 - Austin, TX @ Mohawk9/29 - Dallas, TX @ Granada Theater10/1 - Phoenix, AZ @ The Marquee10/2 - Las Vegas, NV @ Brooklyn Bowl10/3 - San Diego, CA @ House of Blues10/4 - San Francisco, CA @ The Regency Ballroom10/5 - Los Angeles, CA @ John Anson Ford10/15 - Portland, OR @ Roseland Theater10/16 - Seattle, WA @ The Showbox10/17 - Vancouver, BC @ Commodore Ballroom10/19 - Salt Lake City, UT @ Metro Music Hall10/20 - Denver, CO @ Gothic Theatre10/23 - Minneapolis, MN @ Varsity Theater10/24 - Chicago, IL @ Metro Chicago 10/25 - Cincinnati, OH @ Bogart's10/26 - Detroit, MI @ St. Andrew's Hall10/27 - Detroit, MI @ The Fillmore
And the site to check for more is https://mc50th.com/
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 3 April 2018 17:26 (six years ago) link
house of blues?
sigh
― the late great, Tuesday, 3 April 2018 17:26 (six years ago) link
The MC5’s Wayne Kramer Demonstrates the Correct & Official Way to Play “Kick Out the Jams” on the Guitar
I love this dude.
― lbi's life of limitless european glamour (Le Bateau Ivre), Tuesday, 3 April 2018 19:55 (six years ago) link
Just saw the DC gig and loved most of it. Kramer looks and sounds great. Canty on drums is a good choice. Didn’t know the Zen Guerillas guy on vocals, but he was decent enough. Cool to hear Kick our Jams, Looking at You, Call Me Animal, Shakin Street and more live.
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 12 September 2018 03:55 (five years ago) link
https://www.thedailybeast.com/do-i-remember-the-68-dnc-riots-dude-i-played-them
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 12 September 2018 13:25 (five years ago) link
I managed to get a UK original "Kick out the Jams" Lp off Discogs for £15, described as "Poor" condition, it was perfectly fine if a bit scratchy.
― Mark G, Wednesday, 12 September 2018 13:51 (five years ago) link
Listening to the albums again (on Spotify!) after being dazzled by Wayne Kramer and MC50 the other night. Forgetting which MC5 albums I have on vinyl.
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 13 September 2018 13:47 (five years ago) link
Holy molyhttps://youtu.be/AmnM-EBWZBM
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 13 September 2018 14:27 (five years ago) link
KOTJ released 50 years ago today.
― a large tuna called “Justice” (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 1 February 2019 20:28 (five years ago) link
http://townsquare.media/site/295/files/2014/04/hudsons.jpg
― a large tuna called “Justice” (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 1 February 2019 20:31 (five years ago) link