defend the indefensible: TALES FROM TOPOGRAPHIC OCEANS, by YES

It's also not as good as Close To The Edge or Fragile or The Yes Album. In fact, I probably listen to it least of all the Yes I own. But I still wouldn't trade it for an ole' brown mare.

i'm also pleasantly surprised that there are no bashers yet. surely there MUST be some here?!?

i have only ever heard one cocteau twins song!

when I was a big Yes fan in Jr High, TFTO was the only one of their albums I couldn't get through. Now it's the only one I still occasionally listen to (probably because I haven't played it to death like the others). But after reading this thread, I listened to it again to try to remember what I used to find so difficult about it. I think it was because compared to something like The Gates of Delirium, TFTO doesn't progress though movements in a way that seems logical. On the contrary, it meanders around seemingly changing direction at random. In that way it's a much better match for my current tastes. The other difference I noticed is that The Gates of Delirium gives you occasional doses of fist pumping payoff (er, well as close as it gets considering who we're talking about here) and there's almost none of that on TFTO. That was probably a lot of the problem. Too cerebral and not emo enough. Or something.

On the other side of the coin, I can't stand Close to the Edge anymore. A lot of sections on that album just seem to overstay their welcome.

Ha ha, that reminds me of a friend of mine who was listening to a vinyl copy of this and it got going into this repetitive sort of riff in a funny time signature and he was like, "Wow, that's quite cool". And it kept going on and on and on. Then he fell asleep and when he woke up it was still going and he was like, "I knew this was record was long but Jesus!" Then he realised the record had been stuck for 45 minutes.

far out.

I used to crank it
while I lifted weights, which meant
it all cancelled out

Ironically enough, considering Pashima's

It's so...uplifting! It just goes up and up and up and up. So rich & warm-sounding.

it segued into "Going for the One" and I thought, "Now THIS is uplifting." Something about the high synth sounds in the background, literally pulling you up throughout the song.

I should actually get some of this again, since I only ever listened to my dad's albums.

Side 1 and 4 are the most consistent.

OK, Good night.

i am listening to this motherfucking album all the way through for the first time EVER right now

side 2 is where it's at. feel safe now!

ok

this is gonna take a few listens to sink in

like, i enjoyed it pretty much throughout, but uh

it's 7 hours long?

yep

jesus

defend the indefensible: TALES FROM TOPOGRAPHICAL OCEANS, by YEP

i mean...i normally enjoy a record more and more when i'm familiarised to its narrative...this is gonna take a bit more work than usual, but it's work i'm prepared to put in

Louis has never heard any Black Sabbath albums yet he will listen to tales from topographic oceans?

good luck louis. it's been years and years and years and i've never been able to feel all of tales . . . but side 2, side 2! that matches up with any of the other epics from around then. too bad they couldn't have edited the other sixty minutes down into something as enjoyable. still, give them points for ballsiness . . . i mean, an 80 minute long suite? that's ridiculous. and somebody was gonna do it so may as well have been them. and then bouncing back with an album as essential as relayer after going a little too far over the top with tales remains a pretty impressive move

This album is not at all bad.

It's a cliche, I know it, but this is like the ultimate example of an album that would have been a great single album. Actually, had this been a single album consisting only of side 1 and side 4, I would have ranked it as my favourite Yes album, ahead of "Close To The Edge". The parts in-between have their moments too, and this is a great album as is even, but they are a bit patchier than the first and last side and are dragging things down a bit.

I suppose Jon Anderson disagrees with me regarding the single album thing, but then, he is the only person in the entire world who understands the "concept" this album is supposed to be built upon.

I'd rather put on this album than Close to the Edge most of the time. This is the best Yes album to space out to. The atmosphere on this album is completely original and the music is talented.

9:10 into The Remembering (High the Memory) (part 2) is absolutely beautiful. Hell, there's a lot of stunning parts in that song like "out in the city running free" verses. And everytime a joyful/pop-like verse comes along on Topographic Oceans, it is always sung beautifully tot the accompaniment of amazing balearic-prog instrumentation.

The Ancient (Giants Under the Sun) (part 3) gets tons of points for its funkiness and percussion. The acoustic bit at the end (when Jon is singing) wins tons of points for evocation of hippie bliss.

I don't have to put up a case for any of this album, but part 1 is my favorite. Had part 2 and 3 never been created I would be sorely missing out on a great deal of Topographic Oceans (and part 2 might be better than part 4).

The Ancient (Giants Under the Sun) (part 3) gets tons of points for its funkiness and percussion.

I guess that is part of why I don't like it so much. Too much funk, too much emphasis on percussion. :)

figured I had to tackle this one sooner or later. I agree with 90% of this thread - it doesn't deserve its critical reputation. I was prepared to be put off by the sheer complexity or whatnot but in reality a lot of it is soft and melodic, occassionally rocking out (sadly not as much as i'd like), with some real poppy moments too. I don't think that it can be cut to one LP but I agree with the 60 minute suggestion - there's definitely some padding here (especially on "The Ancient", which is the side I'm not really sold on)

side two holds up with "close to the edge" and "gates of delirium". that's the only bit i ever go back to. that said, yes in general don't deserve their critical reputation

I was prepared to be put off by the sheer complexity or whatnot but in reality a lot of it is soft and melodic

This is the main issue I have with the album, in all honesty. I think of all of Yes' works up until Relayer, this album is the only one I could consider to be quite boring. There's some good ideas in there, but there's way too many parts that seem to meander and it just fails to hold my interest for very long. There's certainly nothing as catchy as 'Roundabout' on here, but nor is there any kind of full-on assault like 'Sound Chaser'.

I have a 7" single I believe to be the longest example of one (ROundabout/And you and i)

It's enough for me to know Yes and I are not going to be pals.

That's interesting: I didn't know those two songs were ever released on the same single. They're from different albums. I thought "Long Distance Runaround" was the B-side of "Roundabout"?

Yeah, both sides play at 33, and "And you and i" is the a-side..

That's very well done. I love those ambient parts in the second track.

I think it was an interesting time for the band, that period. There was a lot of FM radio who would play long-form pieces of music without any advertising. We felt we were on the cutting edge of rock music —- progressive rock —- totally different from the norm. And the FM radio in America —- especially university radio —- was very excited to play “Close to the Edge,” “And You and I,” “Starship Trooper,” and longer pieces. So we felt, well, the door seems to be open. Let’s make some music. And of course, when people get together to make music, you don’t really time it and say, “We should just make four-minute pieces of music.” Or five-minute pieces of music. We were just interested in expanding the music that we dreamed of. It wasn’t like, “Let’s sit down and write twenty-minute pieces of music.” We just started writing. We were actually on tour in Japan and Australia, and we started composing ideas, and before you know it, you’re dreaming of new progressions and ideas that are just different. Like having everyone in the band drumming at once. Or having everybody singing and playing different instruments. Challenging yourself, really.

http://www.examiner.com/article/jon-anderson-of-yes-raids-rock-vault-talks-topographic-oceans-40-years-on

That's a great article!

yeah, that's great. i like this album a whole lot. a lot of people are still stuck in some version of the punk vs. prog false dilemma, even if they don't know it.

That article talks about a prog cruise Jon is participating in, to which a friend replied in an email:

Let me get this straight...

Are you telling me that I have the opportunity to experience the best and worst of prog while enjoying the close-quarters company of some of the most socially awkward old people in all of fandom, and top it all off with the rapid spread of virulent rocket diarrhea?

SIGN ME THE FUCK UP.

...at which point another friend pointed out that Jon and Yes have dueling cruises, prompting him to say:

I just realized that the Yes cruise will have Eddie Jobson, Patrick Moraz, and whoever the current Yes keyboard player is (assuming it's not one of them) all in the same boat, and if it sinks, the keyboard world will be devastated. That's after they get intentionally rammed by the Punk Cruise featuring The Ramones (Legacy), Jello Biafra, and two guys from Stiff Little Fingers.

Prog!

I still listen to that Matt#2 edit of this album, it's deepened my appreciation of the album

Is that to be found elsewhere on this thread? I remember wanting to hear it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2IIeDJYjOU

cool, thanks

pass amongst your memories told returning ways

Revive! Am listening to this as I lie in bed getting over virulent diarrhea I contracted on an intercontinental flight. And I must say: this record hits the spot. I think its poor rep has more to do with the four songs/four sides thing than anything else. It’s no more overwrought or indulgent than anything else in their 70s catalogue — and the lyrics are as equally abstract (“And rearrange your liver to the solid mental grace,” anyone?).

Even when I first discovered this record, I was really taken by the “We walk around the story/Out in the city running free” melody in “The Remembering.” But the melodies are quite strong throughout — “Nou Sommes Du Soileil” is up there w “I get up/I get down” “I feel lost in the city!” and “Soon” for great lyrical Jon moments. The rhapsodic “Relayer…”(!!) section in “The Remembering" is catchy as well. Only “The Ancient” is a bit anemic in the melody department, but even there there’s a great folk section with Howe and the textures are pretty attractive.

To that point, the textures and rhythms throughout are pretty amazing — the disco section in the first half of “The Revealing Science of God” is aces and should have been sampled by now. Wakeman, in particular, sounds great on most of this — his Mellotron is towering and his Minimoog bits have the least pomp of most of his recordings. And Howe, Squire and White sound great on “The Ancient” — almost certainly influenced by Crimson’s “Larks’ Tongues in Aspic Part I."

Their best record? No. But much further up there than I remembered ...

weird, this record actually gave me diarrhea

it has a cool album cover

"the remembering" is up there with "close to the edge" and "gates of delirium". tales as a double album is too much but the best of the other three sides/movements could be spliced into another singular epic jam to rank with YES highest on fire. sometimes i wonder if that's what's at the root of the lingering beef between anderson and howe

This record is at the root of the lingering beef?

i have no idea. imagination is a beefitul thing

I listen to this one straight through all the time and love it. The Steven Wilson remix is the version for me. Honestly, I only listen to his Yes remixes of the albums he's done as my go-to versions these days. They're tremendous.

regular tales front to back is beyond my drug budget. a short-ish jam to break up the four 20-minute long songs would've been tight. pass within and soothe this endless night

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyzxoYivYII

this is my favorite yes album

I listen to this one straight through all the time and love it. The Steven Wilson remix is the version for me. Honestly, I only listen to his Yes remixes of the albums he's done as my go-to versions these days. They're tremendous.

I like the 2003 mix of this (with the two minutes or so of tweedling at the beginning, before the vocals come in). I don't like the Steven Wilson remix.

That two minutes is CRUCIAL!

(not joking)

I agree 100%.

NTI I found 320s of his stereo remixes on the t0rr3nts. No way in hell can I afford a Blu-Ray Yes discography!

alternate truth / alternate view / surely surely

this album rules and everyone who hates it sucks

This straddles the line between 'posts very much in character' and 'posts very much out of character'.

the wiki page for this is incredibly entertaining

When the band settled into Morgan Studios, Lane and Anderson proceeded to decorate the studio like a farmyard. Squire believed Lane did so as a joke on Anderson as he wished to record in the country. Anderson brought in flowers, pots of greenery, and cut out cows and sheep to make the studio resemble a garden as a typical studio did not "push the envelope about what you're trying to create musically".Wakeman recalled the addition of white picket fences and his keyboards and amplifiers placed on stacks of hay. At the time of recording, heavy metal group Black Sabbath were recording Sabbath Bloody Sabbath (1973) in the adjacent studio. Singer Ozzy Osbourne recalled the Yes studio also had a model cow with electronic udders fitted and a small barn to give the room an "earthy" feel. "About halfway through the album", said Offord, "The cows were covered in graffiti and all the plants had died. That just kind of sums up that whole album". At one point during the recording stage, Anderson wished for a "bathroom sound" effect on his vocals and asked the band's lighting engineer, Michael Tait, to build him a plywood box with tiles stuck onto it. After Tait explained to Anderson that the idea would not work, Tait "built it anyway". Sound engineer Nigel Luby recalled that tiles would fall off the box during recording takes.

Wakeman felt increasingly disenchanted by the album during the recording stage, and spent much of his time drinking and playing darts in the studio bar. He also spent time with Black Sabbath, playing the Minimoog synthesiser on their track "Sabbra Cadabra". Wakeman would not accept money for his contribution, so the band paid him in beer.

In one incident during the last few days of mixing, Anderson left the studio one morning with Offord carrying the tapes. Offord placed them on-top of his car in order to find his car keys, and proceeded to drive away, forgetting about the tapes. They stopped the car to find the tapes had slid off and fallen on the road, causing Anderson to rush back and stop an oncoming bus to save them.

Nous Sommes De Lager

Was this album ever really critically panned? The only real slagging I can think of off the top of my head was a one-star review from... cdnow? sonicnet? one of those allmusic guide precursors whose archives are completely lost to the ages. Other than that I don’t really remember it being received any worse critically than, say, Drama or Tormato.

The Rolling Stone Album Guide of '92 gave it one star, IIRC, and it appears in the Guterman/O'Donnell Worst Rock 'n' Roll Records of All Time book (those guys particularly have it out for prog, saying of Genesis that they were better than most prog bands "i.e., they were boring only 90% of the time").

yeah it was definitely the punching bag du jour of people who don't even like prog in the first place. I think it's fairly well liked these days though it's still seen as being totally ridiculous and the moment where Yes stopped being the Best Band in the World. the criticism for Tormato feels a bit different - nobody was really expecting a great record out of a prog band in 1978. in fact its Going For the One that was the outlier in that regard.

this album rules and everyone who hates it sucks

― american bradass (BradNelson), Wednesday, August 7, 2019 8:32 AM (four years ago) bookmarkflaglink

she's still right

This is easily a top 50 of all time for me and by far my favorite Yes album

I like the 2003 mix of this (with the two minutes or so of tweedling at the beginning, before the vocals come in).

That two minutes is CRUCIAL!

Originally omitted from the LP at Ahmet Ertegun's request, as if a little bit of atmospheric guitar and wind sounds would be the final straw for the Yes audience.
With that intro intact, there is a mirror image of the last seconds of the album; though there's something to be said for the drama of the LP version, starting right with the vocal.

I heard the dramatic start-from-zero version first, but I still like the 2003 version better.