Behind the Music

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it's worth noting that the critical pendelum has swung since the Lester Bangs quote above. The crit/hipster lionization of "arcane" and "obscure non-entities" is so commonplace, that the same stance Bangs suggests is now employed to advocate the merits of Abba or Britney. Which further suggests to me that a lot of music arguments are cultural - about the dominant modes & tropes of the day more than the individual experience of music.

― fritz, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

But the individual's experience of music is totally shaped by the dominant modes and tropes of the day.

― Tom, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

are we into chicken and egg, nature vs. nurture territory now?

― fritz, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Only if you oppose the two. And they're not opposed, duh.
Also, cutting against your grain != being balanced. It means giving yourself over completely to many ways of feeling.

― Sterling Clover, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

as a rebuttal to the Lester Bang quote way, way upthread... I think it's a better policy to find an obscure but worthy album, and preach at length about its goodness. The bands who made the record can eventually be PROVEN BY SCIENCE to suck a bowling ball through a drinking straw...but if champion NOT THE BAND, but that one single album that more than justifies their existence...you are vindicated. Think about it. The Bee-Gees blow the big beef...but the Saturday Night Fever soundtrack is an acknowldged classic, and the only think in their canon that explains why we didn't put them out of our misery them in 1978.

― Lord Custos, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

No, the Crits aren't the ones pushing Abba, its members of bands who spout praise about kitschy bands. The Critics stick to *obscure* kitsch like Shonen Knife and They Might be Giants. While Garth Brooks and Jon Bon Jovi blather on about how great Kiss is. For once, I think the Critics are right. Shonen Knife kicks ass and Kiss licks one.

― Lord Custos, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Ahh, but the Bee Gee's faux Beatles period yielded "horizontal", a fine soft-psych lp that guided by voices fans would love. And in the hands of Al Green and Isaac Hayes and Gram Parsons, their late 60's/early 70's ballads soared. They're not as easy to dismiss as you might think.

and, sterling, I'm trying to avoid either/or's as much as possible, but it's like a gravitational pull.

― fritz, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

This was way before my time. But I have heard some early Bee Gees on a VH1 Behind the Music show. They obviously didn't play "Horizontal" or any worthwhile tracks of their Faux-Beatles period. It all sounded like Hermans Hermits outtakes. So, No, I've never heard "Horizontal."

But being a Yank, I'm not exposed to anything worthwhile anymore. Just think...in America VH1 is now PROVEN BY SCIENCE to be less cruddy than MTV. Thats not because VH1 is any damned good...it just goes to show how Cosmically Bad MTV has gotten. Back in the 80's the only show I watched was 120 Minutes with Dave Kendall. That was the only show that justified that stations existance... Ohhhh....sorry....I've gotten wayyyyy off-topic.

― Lord Custos, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

"Don't you hate that...?" "What" "...unconfortable Silences..."

― Lord Custos, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Further on my fav topic: purely social criticism saps the work of its meaning, & end result = dull academic prose which is of use maybe to a sociologist but not to a listener. Purely personal crit describes emotions but not how they arise & thus is useful *only* to the author. Thus all crit does both to varying degrees, if it is at all useful. But crit made self conscious of its own role as an examination of a nexus of social engagement between individual and society and author -- now *that* is where things heat up.

― Sterling Clover, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

maybe this belongs on the Contrary threat, but i rather love the syrupy early Bee Gees, like First and Odessa... "Melody Fair" may be my favorite song by them, just for fond memories of how it burrowed into my brain before i knew who it was by.

i might attack music i secretly enjoy, in the attempt to talk myself out of it, but i never champion anything i dislike.

And while i wish that there were more videos, and more variety, i don't care how i think i feel about the music, i'll watch any video, no matter the genre now.

― badger, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

nice distillation of your point, Sterling.

― fritz, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

but I still have a problem with your "a good critic always works against his gut reaction" rule. My gut reaction to this statement is that it's wrong.

― fritz, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

purely social criticism saps the work of its meaning, & end result = dull academic prose which is of use maybe to a sociologist but not to a listener. Purely personal crit describes emotions but not how they arise & thus is useful *only* to the author. Thus all crit does both to varying degrees, if it is at all useful.

Sure, but technical criticism seems conspicuous by its absence. I find that criticism that at least touches on the technical is far more interesting to me than criticism that does not -- especially in music, but also in other fields as well. Engaging the actual material of the work is one of the ways in which a critic can show that his/her theses have some foundation in reality.

― Phil, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I have close to zero interest in technical criticism, but that may be one of the reasons I'm feeling confined or confounded by intellectual/experiential criticism.

― fritz, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Good point Phil. I don't discount technical criticism, but it just hadn't come up in the discussion thus far. I'd add purely technical to purely social as an academic dead end, and also note that I agree completely that the intersection of the manner in which various people respond to a work must be based on a comprehensive understanding of the actual traits of the thing itself.

― Sterling Clover, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

fifteen years pass...

Behind the Music is my ultimate nostalgic hangover binge watch these days. so easy to dial up any band on youtube and watch the VH-1 spin masters tell a tale as old as time.

anybody have any favorites? the hair metal bands tend to be the most fun. as much as i hate Guns N Roses as a band, there's a pretty awesome story there.

also i love the Red Hot Chili Peppers one mostly cos the narration by Downtown Julie Brown. everytime she calls them "The Chili's" it's so great.

― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 14 May 2017 14:57 (six years ago) link

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