Van Morrison: your views please

dave q., as usual, nails it. still, i give a thumb's up to astral weeks and moondance, and bits and pieces of all the rest.

and didn't someone on ILX once post a rilly funny story about some (REALLY disgusting) thing that van's (understandably) pissed-off stage musicians did to one of his harmonicas?!?

Van Morrison is a prize curmudgeon by all accounts, which gives me an opportunity to pinch this from the rocking vicar
Van's Daily Dump
Van Morrison insists on his band turning up to rehearsals at bang on 8.30am, although Van himself often doesn't turn up until ten, and then goes straight to the toilet with a copy of Exchange & Mart to have a dump. One day, the band got so cross that they waited until Van was engaged and then, one by one, tip-toed over to Van's Sacred Harmonica Bag, full of harmonicas Van has collected from around the world, picked a specimen, and rubbed it in their anal clefts. Even now, when you see Van on Later, his band seemed particularly delighted when he does a harmonica solo.

-- Billy Dods (butterbubble...), September 4th, 2002.

Maybe.

Astral Weeks = very necessary.

The rest = meh. Ups and downs.

Out of context, that would be a strange sentence.

Nothing I've heard from him since 1974 seems to come close - although I'd be interested to see what other ILMers think of some of his more recent albums (especially Back On Top, Down The Road, What's Wrong With This Picture) since I have recently been entertaining the (probably fanciful) notion that he's about due for a sudden and unexpected return to form.

This message is not for Van haters, but for Van fans. I first got hip to Van when I saw the "Last Waltz." When he came out I thought "who the heck is that little fat guy, he's all flabby and dressed in a brown pantsuit? He looks like a middle-aged lady. On top of that he's doing this ridiculous chorus-line kicking." Then I kept listening and I shut up. His was the most definitive performance in the movie, his and Muddy Waters.

About Van sideman and territory-sharer Georgie Fame, who was dissed above: I saw Georgie once at Ronnie Scott's in London, and he put on one good show. He did one bit where, in a tribute to his former boss, he sang a medley of Moondance and some African song from a movie soundtrack (was it one of those Cornel Wilde things?) that was pretty damn great.

I've never thought of Van Morrison as hippy-anything (or especially earnest, for that matter). Unlike the faux-mysticism of, say, Led Zeppelin, Van's lyrics steer clear of gnomes and m'ladys, are grounded instead in back alleys, snowstorms, trains, Safeway supermarkets, and memory. More importantly, the music is equally grounded: in r&b. His 70's catalogue (Moondance, Tupelo Honey, St Dominick's Preview, Hardnose the Highway, Veedon Fleece, and though it's '69, Astral Weeks belongs in this group too) is at least as strong as Al Green's. After that, for the most part it seems like he started reading a bit too much of his own press: yes, the mysticism did start to grate. I've been listening to him a lot again. He good.

how hold on a moment...

but al green is al green!

anyway style IS substance. dude.

yeah, you would believe that sort of twaddle. Le Roy Neiman has a lot of "style," how do you feel about him? (here comes the lecture) I hope you wear a beret when you type out these missives. And one earring. No, that wouldn't go with the short pants and riding crop.

intelligent discussion may now resume.

I've been totally gaying out on Van lately. Saw the last waltz again and it really hit me how fucking BIZARRE the man is...such strange mannerisms onstage, so "passionate" but yet seems sort of bitter and hateful and totally uncaring about the crowd...

but so anyway yesterday I picked up "It's too late to stop now" a live album with his band, the Caledonia Soul Orchestra...honestly I think it's one of the greatest albums ever recorded...every song is retooled, rearranged...huge band, strings + horns + a core of a whoop-ass RnB band and rhythm secion....Van is all over the fucking place on this....slurring everything into a million fake endings and rave up WHOMP WHOMP WHOMP rhythm section hits...tuuurn on yuuuuur raDIO blooblobleeebledeeedlebloooombabloooobeeeedoodbeee..urrrrrnnnnn letcha lights shaaane....lettttit shine...

the fourth side "Heres Comes the night"---->gloria----->caravan----->cypress avenue is amazing...i think it's about five minutes before cypress is even close to being recognizable....

yeah that last waltz performance is strange, right? he's definitely got a weird mix of wanting to be this classic entertainer type and then also just having a "fuck you" attitude. it works! the jumpsuit, on the other hand ...

there's a beyond-fantastic bootleg from a 1972 live radio session that has some incredible van moments -- a definitive "Friday's Child," a beautiful "into the mystic" and an incredible reading of dylan's "just like a woman." that thing deserves official release, seriously. it's a peak.

as much as i like van, i haven't delved very deeply into his post-mid 70s stuff. but it seems as though there's plenty of worthwhile albums/songs ...

As much as I love "Caravan" from TLW, I love his vocal on "Tura Lura Lura" even more. God I wish there was an outtake of that floating somewhere.

I haven’t listened to inarticulate speech in awhile but “irish heartbeat” randomly sailed back into my head this week and it’s a little weird how apt it is for shit I’m dealing with right now. God I love 80s Van, so gentle and spiritual

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiCbNCy0bbg

FWIW, Van came up during the first show of Elvis Costello's Gramercy residency (which was awesome). He mentioned how he and Allan Mayes, his friend and partner in Rusty, bonded over their mutual love of Van Morrison. He then covered "Domino," demonstrating afterwards how that great guitar lick inspired one of his own songs (forgot which, but it would've been an early song). He then snuck in the remark "...before (Van) went crazy," which got a huge laugh, and he then politely added, "he's a comedian, that's what he is." On a later number, he segued one of his own songs into "Jackie Wilson Said."

Apart from extreme cases, I don't tend to make definitive decisions about the 'separate the art from the artist' thing, but I've practically given up with Van. I never put a record on and if he comes up on various playlists, I find myself skipping after a few seconds. It's kind of brutal, tbh.

That probably sounds insensitive in light of brimstead's post. I hope things get easier for you.

Bird - maybe "Pay It Back"?

That's the only EC song that I can think of that has an echo of "Domino."

I mean

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SEu2e12x1w

"Deep Dark Truthful Mirror" used to get mistaken for a Van Morrison song pretty regularly.

That probably sounds insensitive in light of brimstead's post. I hope things get easier for you.

I actually have the easiest time separating the art from the artist in Van's case than anyone else. He's always been a fairly disagreeable little troll and it's a minor miracle that the universe decided to channel that magic through him. I don't really feel like his music has anything to do with him or even belongs to him.

Bird - maybe "Pay It Back"?

That's the only EC song that I can think of that has an echo of "Domino."

It just occurred to me to look up the setlist - it was actually "Living in Paradise" (which I think may have been demoed before the Attractions came into he picture, even though it ultimately appeared on This Year's Model).

And I think I'm in the same boat with UMS. To be fair, I don't have any interest in listening to his post-COVID records or to go to anymore shows, but it's always been understood that there's something seriously wrong with him mentally and it's a big reason why he will always be a terrible and unpredictable person. The fact he's created so much transcendent music is miraculous.

I can buy into the notion of Van as a conduit. I think the difference between mythically grumpy and abusive twat Van and modern Van is proximity & social media. The former is distant, avoidable, the vagaries of emotional control part of the mythos; the latter is blunt and ugly and precisely the kind of twat I avoid at all costs - and it's right there in my face. Am very much hoping it will pass.

Bird - Interesting. I don't immediately hear that in "Living in Paradise" but I will think about it.

"Deep Dark Truthful Mirror" used to get mistaken for a Van Morrison song pretty regularly.

Really? Maybe because of the brass.

But Elvis uses approximately fifteen times as many words as Van.

Elvis is like

Now the flagstone streets where the newspaper shouts
Ring to the boots of roustabouts

Whereas Van is like

Sha la la la la la la la la la la tee dah

Both of these cranky singers have their place.

But I think part of EC's rhetorical purpose here has to do with claiming Irishness as an essential part of his identity - a point on which he sometimes protests too much. Sometimes he appears embarrassed by how English he is, and uses Ireland as a fig leaf. But that strays from the thread topic rather a lot.

To circle back, I am also done with Van. He made some pretty catchy records, sure, but he has overstayed his welcome from the public sphere. The planet would be okay if he just fucking vanished.

Greg Kot said he once saw Van Morrison punch out one of his band members on the way off the stage. Anyone see this? It probably would've been a Chicago-area concert, though I know Kot sometimes covered shows out-of-state.

xp hey found a clip of that moment in the show!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuZfu9XvBzw

Prior to the anti vax crap, I'd say Van probably put out as reliably good new records as any old classic rocker, maybe save Dylan. His voice is still in remarkable shape for his age and the fact he seems like perpetually out of shape alcoholic.

I guess I really came around Van as conduit when I finally read about the making of Astral Weeks, which I thought was probably some kind of mystical group seance to find out he barely acknowledged or spoke to anyone and did his vocals from the booth while they played in the studio.

xp (not "Domino" but "Living in Paradise," adding the joke "maybe (Van)'ll sue me.")a

I think Greil Marcus was right about Roll with the Punches, it's a pretty excellent album. I wasn't taken by Keep Me Singing but Roll with the Punches somehow came off like a great afterhours show where he just did as few new songs and a lot of old standards. On paper I never would have expected it - "it's over an hour (probably too long) and he's already released covers of some of these songs" - but I loved the entire album.

I liked Keep Me Singing actually...Three Chords and Truth is pretty good, Magic Time from 05. I guess I always find a few gems, not that I go back to them often.

I get the impression a lot of fans like Keep Me Singing - a lot them single it out as his real comeback, but something about it felt kind of lifeless to me, like he was sapped of energy. I'll give it another try though.

I love “out in the cold again” from keep me singing

“In between the times where it feels alright
To the dead of the cold black night”

i once saw van walk off stage in the middle of a song, not to return, after he had done his contractual 45 minutes. he didn't punch anyone afaik but the bandmembers he left vamping looked mighty perplexed. luckily rockpile had done a killer opening set so i didn't feel too ripped off.

Re: the conduit reading of Van. Okay I guess but I just want to have this mystique applied consistently.

Musicians like him don't have a monopoly on soulfulness / spirituality / mysticism.

Like, if Van Morrison gets to be a "conduit," then so does Paula Abdul or Garth Brooks or Morris Day or Johannes Brahms or Erykah Badu or whomsoever.

He's always been a fairly disagreeable little troll and it's a minor miracle that the universe decided to channel that magic through him. I don't really feel like his music has anything to do with him or even belongs to him

Sums up my feelings as well. It’s even more remarkable that he has recorded some of the most joyous music around.

I've been having a bit of a problem with Van lately myself. I likely will get over it, but it's been harder than I realized.

Really? Maybe because of the brass.

That, and the vocal style is very Morrisonesque.

Okay, I can see that, in the shouts growled chorus.

Elvis is like five times as smart as Van, not that it does him any good

finally getting around to some 80s van and damn how the fuck was i even living before i heard "beautiful vision"????

yuuuup

I taped a King Biscuit concert of his, about 1991, off the radio. Unfortunately my boombox was wonky and recorded at the wrong speed. Consequently that was the only machine on which I could play that recording.

Van was, in my view, at the height of his mid-career powers, and he had an an excellent backing band. Basically the "Wavelength" album, plus the way he was performing his earlier material in exactly that moment.

Exquisite. Before that, he was underbaked. After that, too much. It was exactly right.

gotta love Vanlose Stairway

90s Van rules ok too, I have a particular weak spot for The Healing Game

the wind in the willows…AND THE PIPER AT THE GATES OF DAWN

Van's pandemic turn has made it much harder for me to enjoy his work.

As someone suggested in another thread, I kind of pretend he's been dead since 2019 and indulge in the work of a man who (while still a colossal dick) hasn't gone all-in into vile conspiracy theories.

Similar to Eric Clapton (dead since the end of 1974) and I guess Kanye West (dead since the end of 2010) when I'm ready to listen to him again.

Yeah bird I tuned Van out a long time ago. Pretending he died is perhaps the best way to enjoy his early work while ignoring his subsequent rancid dickishness.

I put Van Morrison into a Chinese translator and I feel like I'm going insane pic.twitter.com/0TuPUQKEb8

— John Frankensteiner (@JFrankensteiner) November 24, 2023

New episode of the 500 Songs podcast is on Van

https://500songs.com/podcast/episode-170-astral-weeks-by-van-morrison/

ooh interesting!

that chinese translation is wild