Male culture

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OK, the word "reclamation" may make it sound like I'm all for it, and so may using Dworkin as foil: anyone who mocks her = on the right lines etc etc. But I'm saying, no, Moyles actually AGREES with her (I mean, genuinely, even tho he has quite poss.never heard her name), and so does Lad Culture. As in, Men = irredeemable rubbish, so why bother kidding ourselves we can change. Conclusion: let's all have a larf!!

Main prob with New Man-ism was its old- skool fam.val het orthodoxy (not a jibe at you Billy): the interesting jag in New Laddism is its tentative flirtation with elements in Queer Culture, New Lad/Ladette bonding trying to feel out towards a Happy Fuck- Buddy Equality-Autonomy...

OK, I know it's easy to shoot this down. But I think it's there, in among all the obviously rubbish stuff.

mark s, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Kerry, I don't know about society improving, but life tends to be more fun when you try to confuse the hell out of people.

Lyra, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Andrea Dworkin is actually quite "laddish", judging from the bits of her novels that I've read. Or, at least in the passages I read, there was a demonstrated ability to identify with "lads".

And I suppose I should add here that I'm not a fan of hers, although her fiction has been repeatedly recommended to me by people who don't like her otherwise.

Kerry, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Search: pool.

Destroy: overpriced drinks.

Sterling Clover, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Which elements of queer culture do you mean mark?

As one of the old school- fam vaue het orthodoxy (though I only accept the het part) I don't feel qualified to comment. Is it the hedonistic aspect you mean, i.e the rejection of above orthodoxy or to use the current parlance 'largin' it'.

Billy Dods, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

"Happy Fuck-Buddy Equality-Autonomy..."

Largin' it sexually, maybe, but at the same keeping it quite strictured emotionally: pretending free-and-easy neverc has a pay- off. Fuck and to and still be pals: you did it, you didn't, what's the diff? Equal opportunity banter abt fancying, shagging, what you did, and how you walked away, no worries. Which I might add is an illusion in QueerCult too, but an much easier one to sustain. Or more necessary (collectively) to sustain. Does this make sense?

Kerry: good pt abt Dworkin, and yes, she is a bit too EASY-LAZY an icon of "feminist error", and misleading because SO one-note. Her "laddism" was not the aspect of her I had in mind, so much as her assumption of total male irredeemability. But maybe they are not so unconnected anyway?

(Anthony, I did not mean to bully you: but who can argue with brownies?)

mark s, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

"Fuck and to" = "Fuck and go"/and my idea is that that free-and-easy, in act and in speech, certainly exists w/i gayboy and gaygirl world, the ability for the talk not to encroach too much on WHAT HAPPENS NEXT (panic panic), because (supposedly) it's not a deal so much what happens next, yay, nay, who care who remembers. Well lad-ladette culture — inc.this board, and why I like it — also yearns for that semi-utopian state.

Except except except except: except look wo its role models are and wonder why it comes not about quite yet

mark s, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I think queers also have a very honest and explicict sexual code, There is an ettiqutte that is understood. We talk about sex wit halot more honesty and clarity.

anthony, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Exactly. (With the caveats that this is not true of all queers, sadly, and that the culture as a whole can also be snobby and exclusionary and shallow). Homophobia is partly fuelled by envy, via a clutcha myths abt promiscuity (where it happens and what it's like), and a LESS myth-bound intuition abt the good stuff anthony's citing.

Lad-ladette culture = torn between mimicry (admiration) and homophobia (envy).

mark s, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Her "laddism" was not the aspect of her I had in mind, so much as her assumption of total male irredeemability. But maybe they are not so unconnected anyway?

Perhaps not. I know that she went through a phase of extreme sexual libertinism - going so far as defending incest and bestiality (in Woman Hating). She must have had a bad experience or two during that time. Maybe she contracted rabies or something.

Kerry Keane, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Oh, I should also add that many people have commented on Dworkin's competitiveness with men and her x-tra large ego, all the while being frequently dismissive and patronizing of women.

Kerry, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Is there not ONE straight male here who will admit to even the teensy- weensiest bit of enjoying privilege and using whatever means to hold on to it? Come on, let's have a bit of candor for once! And if 'violence and anti-intellectualism' are bad things to be shunned, then how do some of you explain your interest in pop music?

dave q, Friday, 17 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Enjoying privilege? *scratches head* Uh, no, not really. Don't want it anyway!

Ned Raggett, Friday, 17 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

seventeen years pass...

beards

daenerys baker (darraghmac), Monday, 20 May 2019 19:20 (four years ago) link

i dunno, some food i guess

daenerys baker (darraghmac), Monday, 20 May 2019 19:21 (four years ago) link

probably watchin somethin or listenin to something, or reading a book or a magazine

daenerys baker (darraghmac), Monday, 20 May 2019 19:22 (four years ago) link

wearing clothes

daenerys baker (darraghmac), Monday, 20 May 2019 19:22 (four years ago) link

having teeth

daenerys baker (darraghmac), Monday, 20 May 2019 19:22 (four years ago) link

blinking in order to keep ones eyes moist

daenerys baker (darraghmac), Monday, 20 May 2019 19:22 (four years ago) link

the awareness of oneself as separate to say for instance the floor or that couch

daenerys baker (darraghmac), Monday, 20 May 2019 19:23 (four years ago) link

otm

Yerac, Monday, 20 May 2019 19:23 (four years ago) link

taut alertness at the scent of prey

daenerys baker (darraghmac), Monday, 20 May 2019 19:23 (four years ago) link

bloodlust

daenerys baker (darraghmac), Monday, 20 May 2019 19:23 (four years ago) link

swords def swords, things made out of metal that signal danger, shaped like a phallus if it can at all be hinted

daenerys baker (darraghmac), Monday, 20 May 2019 19:24 (four years ago) link

posts very male in culture

nashwan, Monday, 20 May 2019 19:24 (four years ago) link

noticing any of the above and being troubled

daenerys baker (darraghmac), Monday, 20 May 2019 19:24 (four years ago) link

scared now

daenerys baker (darraghmac), Monday, 20 May 2019 19:25 (four years ago) link

unsure.

one paw out but not quite....touching

daenerys baker (darraghmac), Monday, 20 May 2019 19:25 (four years ago) link

lol nashwan

brimstead, Monday, 20 May 2019 19:25 (four years ago) link

to kill ones father and to shake his head at his advancing enemies, pleading that it suffice

daenerys baker (darraghmac), Monday, 20 May 2019 19:26 (four years ago) link

Unruly nostril hair.

Ned Caligari (Tom D.), Monday, 20 May 2019 19:27 (four years ago) link

the way you imagine nixon smelled

daenerys baker (darraghmac), Monday, 20 May 2019 19:27 (four years ago) link

clothes that dont touch anywhere

daenerys baker (darraghmac), Monday, 20 May 2019 19:28 (four years ago) link

the carving of a space with every stride, word, keystroke, thrust yes

daenerys baker (darraghmac), Monday, 20 May 2019 19:29 (four years ago) link

Do non-American men have beards?

pomenitul, Monday, 20 May 2019 19:35 (four years ago) link

no never

daenerys baker (darraghmac), Monday, 20 May 2019 19:36 (four years ago) link

only american taco trucks

Yerac, Monday, 20 May 2019 19:36 (four years ago) link

Just checking, thanks.

xp

pomenitul, Monday, 20 May 2019 19:36 (four years ago) link

some mayo women mind

daenerys baker (darraghmac), Monday, 20 May 2019 19:37 (four years ago) link

Counterpoint

http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/mp/a0gzj67A7ASl.jpg

specific goats my way (Noodle Vague), Monday, 20 May 2019 19:39 (four years ago) link

I once heard un-American men have beards as well, still waiting for confirmation.

pomenitul, Monday, 20 May 2019 19:41 (four years ago) link

ugh beards

daenerys baker (darraghmac), Monday, 20 May 2019 19:44 (four years ago) link

cute little trucks
anti-dog spray
knowing everyone on your route
friendly card at Christmas

☮ (peace, man), Monday, 20 May 2019 19:53 (four years ago) link

Assange.

Ned Caligari (Tom D.), Monday, 20 May 2019 19:58 (four years ago) link

man bags, bags for men

daenerys baker (darraghmac), Monday, 20 May 2019 23:14 (four years ago) link

saying i'll have to think about that and then not thinking about it

remy bean, Monday, 20 May 2019 23:15 (four years ago) link

implements with which to kill butcher and grill animals in the man bag

daenerys baker (darraghmac), Monday, 20 May 2019 23:16 (four years ago) link

xp yeah, good

but yknow probably meaning it at the time maybe too?

daenerys baker (darraghmac), Monday, 20 May 2019 23:17 (four years ago) link

'i'll have the last slice if nobody else wants it'

remy bean, Monday, 20 May 2019 23:19 (four years ago) link

the fear of missing a turn eating into your ability to behave like a human on any new journey every turn nearer the end destination merely a banked missed disaster raising the stakes turn down the fucking radio i cant think

daenerys baker (darraghmac), Monday, 20 May 2019 23:19 (four years ago) link

to be bought things like slippers that chide you slyly into domesticity but to soothe the disquiet by eating somewhere concrete and wooden

daenerys baker (darraghmac), Monday, 20 May 2019 23:22 (four years ago) link

shorts are tshirt pants

daenerys baker (darraghmac), Monday, 20 May 2019 23:28 (four years ago) link

Cultivating friendliness towards one's spider housemates.

pomenitul, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 10:58 (four years ago) link

....

daenerys baker (darraghmac), Tuesday, 21 May 2019 12:38 (four years ago) link

the way you imagine nixon smelled

finding this post particularly upsetting tbh

michael keaton IS jim thirlwell IN ‘foetaljuice’ (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 21 May 2019 12:45 (four years ago) link

A heady comingling of Prep H and pine air fresheners, surely.

5 favrite kind of animal. jaguar. giraffe. (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 21 May 2019 12:48 (four years ago) link

its a rorschach smell test for sure

daenerys baker (darraghmac), Tuesday, 21 May 2019 13:04 (four years ago) link

Teed that up for you, didn't I.

5 favrite kind of animal. jaguar. giraffe. (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 21 May 2019 13:25 (four years ago) link

lookit as well criticise newton because relativity was already there waiting to be uncovered

daenerys baker (darraghmac), Tuesday, 21 May 2019 13:29 (four years ago) link

anti-dog spray

hahahaa

mick signals, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 15:28 (four years ago) link

nixon smale culture

i got bag sauce in my bag (Sufjan Grafton), Tuesday, 21 May 2019 17:12 (four years ago) link

TS: smell of Nixon vs. smell of Stone's Nixon back tat

5 favrite kind of animal. jaguar. giraffe. (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 21 May 2019 17:23 (four years ago) link


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