no, this is a parody thread, if such people existed (which they don't)
― waka flocka pedia (J0rdan S.), Monday, 1 March 2010 03:26 (fourteen years ago) link
thank heathus christ. I was legit getting worried.
― RubyNoir, Monday, 1 March 2010 03:27 (fourteen years ago) link
i could vote for any of a bunch of songs -- "love story," "hey stephen," "white horse," "you belong with me," "the way i loved you," "forever and always," "the best day," it's a hard call. tempted by "the way i loved you" because it's a great case study in crescendo -- the whole song is a series of build-build-release, over and over, from the intro thru to the bridge, and the chorus is a monster. also by "the best day," because it is honest-to-god lump-in-the-throat material. it's hard to do that kind of "i luv u mom'n'dad" family stuff well.
― hellzapoppa (tipsy mothra), Monday, 1 March 2010 03:46 (fourteen years ago) link
love the rhythm of the words at the end of the "way i loved you bridge": "you were wild and crazy/just so frustrating/intoxicating, complicated/got away, my sole mistake" -- it's a great tumble that mixes up all the residual anger and lust and shows that they're basically inextricable.
― hellzapoppa (tipsy mothra), Monday, 1 March 2010 03:49 (fourteen years ago) link
i mean, the "way i loved you" bridge.
the "way i loved you bridge," i don't think they've started naming infrastructure after her yet.
― hellzapoppa (tipsy mothra), Monday, 1 March 2010 03:50 (fourteen years ago) link
also, the video for 'the best day' is pretty great.
― hellzapoppa (tipsy mothra), Monday, 1 March 2010 03:57 (fourteen years ago) link
Love them all, would pick a different one every day, but the first one I loved most was the title track, so Imma go with that.
― Alex in Montreal, Monday, 1 March 2010 04:38 (fourteen years ago) link
So......people genuinely like T Squinty Swift's fair to middling dear diary lyrics and bland production? To each it's own I guess...
― RubyNoir, Sunday, February 28, 2010 10:23 PM (1 hour ago)
to each, it is OWNED
― jaded scorer (k3vin k.), Monday, 1 March 2010 04:57 (fourteen years ago) link
the album
each of us
anyway this is impossible but
1) you belong with me2) fearless3) forever and always? i basically love them all the same after this
― jaded scorer (k3vin k.), Monday, 1 March 2010 04:58 (fourteen years ago) link
voting 'the best day'.
― xhuxk, Monday, 1 March 2010 05:06 (fourteen years ago) link
The lobby at my dentist's office is the best place to discover new music!
― Evan, Monday, 1 March 2010 05:33 (fourteen years ago) link
is that where you go after you're suggest banned?
― jaded scorer (k3vin k.), Monday, 1 March 2010 06:14 (fourteen years ago) link
if it wasn't for my dentist, i never would've discovered gucci mane
― waka flocka pedia (J0rdan S.), Monday, 1 March 2010 06:17 (fourteen years ago) link
1 you belong with me2 breath3 fearless
had to go with "you belong with me". it was the one that changed my mind about her. and its just perfect.
― gman59, Monday, 1 March 2010 06:31 (fourteen years ago) link
I love Gucci! Especially when he guest stars, that dude is comedy. He's got some excellent wordplay on his songs unlike Tay Swift
― RubyNoir, Monday, 1 March 2010 10:16 (fourteen years ago) link
i would sb you again but
― jaded scorer (k3vin k.), Monday, 1 March 2010 13:22 (fourteen years ago) link
Just kiddingggg. Sorry for the bitterness, I'm just feeling terrible.
― Evan, Monday, 1 March 2010 14:03 (fourteen years ago) link
gotcha back xp
― samosa gibreel, Monday, 1 March 2010 16:06 (fourteen years ago) link
^^^
― plax (ico), Monday, 1 March 2010 19:50 (fourteen years ago) link
For me the funny thing about this album isn't merely that my favourite changes all the time but that songs radically wax and wane in my affections, dropping from 1 to 7 or so from day to day.
But I love most often: "Love Story", "Hey Stephen", "Forever & Always"
― Tim F, Wednesday, 3 March 2010 06:02 (fourteen years ago) link
You're Not Sorry is probably right, but I kneejerk voted for Hey Stephen
― forksclovetofu, Wednesday, 3 March 2010 06:17 (fourteen years ago) link
I voted Fifteen but listening again now its clearly The Way I Loved You. her vocal performance on that is PERFECT POP. totally fantastic.
― Jamie_ATP, Wednesday, 3 March 2010 11:52 (fourteen years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.
― System, Thursday, 4 March 2010 00:01 (fourteen years ago) link
still dont get u dudes jizzing all over the one tree hill of pop
― iatee, Thursday, 4 March 2010 00:06 (fourteen years ago) link
Any other really similar pop-stars get this much love here in the past?
― Evan, Thursday, 4 March 2010 01:20 (fourteen years ago) link
...
― how is "babby" horribly formed????? (k3vin k.), Thursday, 4 March 2010 01:27 (fourteen years ago) link
I'm standing by it.
― Evan, Thursday, 4 March 2010 01:36 (fourteen years ago) link
given how many words have been expended on explaining why t-swift is amazing, claiming you don't understand why people love her or acting surprised when they express this love is tantamount to admitting you're illiterate at this point
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Thursday, 4 March 2010 12:06 (fourteen years ago) link
or we are decently literate and just think a lot of people on this site are fronting
― iatee, Thursday, 4 March 2010 12:53 (fourteen years ago) link
I think a lot of people here don't actually enjoy country music as they'd like to on some philosophical level and taylor swift - who writes decent, approachable pop songs - is a good way to pretend like they actually like country music. hope she makes a 'yankee hotel foxtrot' soon!
also whenever you guys start analyzing her amazing songwriting techniques, you guys look like some parent talking about their 10 year old's amazing academic prowess. look at her, she used a 'bridge'!!! can you believe she's only 20??
― iatee, Thursday, 4 March 2010 13:05 (fourteen years ago) link
I don't think anyone on ILX who praises Taylor Swift is using it in any way to claim they're really into Country now, or even that Swift is the token Country artist they like as some sort of 'look at how eclectic I am' front.
― Freddy 'The Wonder Chicken' (Gukbe), Thursday, 4 March 2010 13:08 (fourteen years ago) link
just one theory to explain the fronting, maybe you got a better one?
― iatee, Thursday, 4 March 2010 13:12 (fourteen years ago) link
somewhere between 'she really is that good' and 'Tim F's enthusiasm is infectious'?
― Freddy 'The Wonder Chicken' (Gukbe), Thursday, 4 March 2010 13:13 (fourteen years ago) link
most of the "real" country music fans on ilm like taylor swift, afaik. including me.
but i like the idea that anyone needs a theory to explain why people like good pop music.
― hellzapoppa (tipsy mothra), Thursday, 4 March 2010 13:14 (fourteen years ago) link
I still hate country. I don't believe that Taylor Swift has any country in her music, other than a few extremely minor banjo parts and shit.
― kingkongvsgodzilla, Thursday, 4 March 2010 13:15 (fourteen years ago) link
you definitely don't have to like country to like her. fearless especially is pretty much just a pop-rock album with a few country touches. (the first one is more obviously country.)
but you also don't need some complex double-blind study to figure out why anyone enjoys catchy well-written pop songs.
― hellzapoppa (tipsy mothra), Thursday, 4 March 2010 13:18 (fourteen years ago) link
Her stuff reminds me more of Fleetwood Mac.
― kingkongvsgodzilla, Thursday, 4 March 2010 13:20 (fourteen years ago) link
I'm giving my vote to Love Story, since it's the song that won me over. And I really enjoy almost all country music.
― Jacob Sanders, Thursday, 4 March 2010 13:29 (fourteen years ago) link
Very curious about this "philosophical level" that I should be or would like to enjoy country music on?
― Jacob Sanders, Thursday, 4 March 2010 13:32 (fourteen years ago) link
http://www.humanities.mcmaster.ca/~bertrand/5_nob_6.jpg
"If you don't like Taylor Swift on my level, you're just fronting."
― begs the question, when is enough enough (Euler), Thursday, 4 March 2010 13:42 (fourteen years ago) link
the obvious - it's not fronting and you have to be really, really fucking thick to think it is
how on earth is this even remotely like what anyone's said? who has ever praised her for using a bridge? at this point you're just arguing with the voices of the strawman in your head
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Thursday, 4 March 2010 14:57 (fourteen years ago) link
Ol' Strawy. Great guy.
― Evan, Thursday, 4 March 2010 15:00 (fourteen years ago) link
Lol at the idea of people saying they like Taylor Swift as a way to gain cred. for liking country. ??? Liking country still doesn't bring a lot of cultural cache. If you did want to prove you liked country, there are hundreds of country artists it would be more appropriate to claim to like rather than Taylor Swift.
― _Rudipherous_, Thursday, 4 March 2010 15:07 (fourteen years ago) link
I don't think people are fronting when they say they like her, I think they're fronting about how much they like her.
― iatee, Thursday, 4 March 2010 15:08 (fourteen years ago) link
So many non-country fans probably like her precisely because she's pop country.
x-post:
Well it's certainly possible for people to front for various reasons. Personally I like her but not nearly as much as some others seem to do. I really did find her one of the more appealing recording artists on commercial radio over the last year and a half, and I genuinely do find some of her songs pretty moving. Her overall sound is a little too far removed from what I usually go for for me to want to hear her that often.
Haha, if people on ILM front about liking things, it may simply be because a lot of us really enjoy liking things.
― _Rudipherous_, Thursday, 4 March 2010 15:13 (fourteen years ago) link
this is boring. iatee, you're being a) totally ill-mannered b) completely dense - shrieking "i don't believe you!" in response to a bunch of disparate people articulating why they like something doesn't cut it. i think you're fronting when you say you don't believe any of us tbh.
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Thursday, 4 March 2010 15:26 (fourteen years ago) link
as I said, I don't disbelieve that plenty of people genuinely like taylor swift and I do think there are reasons to like her...she makes simple and accessible pop music. I just think there's a difference between a. 'like taylor swift' and b. 'believe that taylor swift created the best piece of music in 2009'. I do think anyone in group b is fronting to some degree or another, and it's pretty apparent in the way some people here talk about her. this thread: Taylor Swift '08: The Hype, Anticipation & Appreciation Begins Right Here is filllllled with people projecting complexity onto her music.
― iatee, Thursday, 4 March 2010 15:48 (fourteen years ago) link
No, they're not projecting complexity onto her music. Most music is complex, has subtext, some sort of motivation. They're trying to untangle what it all means, and finding the process gratifying. Why? Because the music is so good they want to pore over every detail. What you're doing is completely ridiculous and the worst kind of argument because you make sure that nothing we say will ever 'prove' it wrong. I can verbally abuse you and call you a shithead, and you'll keep on saying "you're fooling yourself". I'm not in the habit of playing something on repeat far more than any other music unless I think it's the best album of a particular year. Short version: Get a life.
― abcfsk, Thursday, 4 March 2010 16:17 (fourteen years ago) link
Abigail makes an appearance in the Miss Americana documentary, iirc
― Lily Dale, Friday, 9 April 2021 17:28 (three years ago) link
listening to this new version of "fifteen" reminded me of the very bad feminist discourse around taylor swift circa 2009-2012
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Friday, 9 April 2021 17:32 (three years ago) link
Felt like I was going insane with some of that discourse, it did take away the energy to talk about her music. It was a relay race, first she hated sex, then she did sex wrong or something, and then it shifted and probably peaked in insanity when she was a nazi ??? it sort of quickly fell apart like a house of cards at some point and now it's weird to remember it as a real thing but I guess these re-releases will force some of the skeletons out of the closet. I have read reviewers of this re-relase admitting "I didn't take her seriously as a songwriter back then I guess I realize now she always made great songs"
― abcfsk, Friday, 9 April 2021 20:51 (three years ago) link
the overly faithful musical settings feel like a missed opportunity
well, it's not primarily an artistic pursuit. being unfaithful to the original songs would betray the motivation for doing this whole project in the first place
― J0rdan S., Friday, 9 April 2021 20:55 (three years ago) link
personally i'm kind of digging the slight 90s alt rock vibes of the re-recordings and also "you all over me" is one of the best songs of the year
― J0rdan S., Friday, 9 April 2021 20:56 (three years ago) link
i do enjoy the grungier guitar tone when it appears
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Friday, 9 April 2021 20:58 (three years ago) link
the drums have that kind of dull thwack that sounds very live (the adjective not the band) to me, still not exactly sure why it ended up like that but i'm kind of into it. there's a certain rawness to the re-recordings
― J0rdan S., Friday, 9 April 2021 21:03 (three years ago) link
I don't really know this album aside from "You Belong With Me," so that's all I listened to, but the original version sounds much better to me. What the re-recording is missing, I think, is the wistfulness in her voice that balanced the cattiness of the lyrics. In the original, "she wears short skirts, I wear t-shirts" comes off mostly as envy; she would like to be the kind of person who can wear short skirts. In the re-recording, the envy is missing from her voice, so what I get instead is a sense of superiority, of "she's wrong for you because she's shallow and slutty, unlike me." Does anyone else have that reaction? I feel like I'm zeroing in on something so tiny as to be almost unnoticeable, but it really takes away what I liked about the song.
― Lily Dale, Friday, 9 April 2021 21:13 (three years ago) link
I think that may fall under the rubric of what I've been saying about her vocals – she doesn't sound really expressive or like she's committed to "selling" the story or emotion in many of these songs (which isn't surprising, considering how old they are).
― Yawnsomely Literal Cover Band (morrisp), Friday, 9 April 2021 21:33 (three years ago) link
(and she's always been a really expressive singer, even when her singing was a lot more rough)
― Yawnsomely Literal Cover Band (morrisp), Friday, 9 April 2021 21:35 (three years ago) link
xxp: I have always read the short skirts/t-shirts thing as a superiority thing! The "I am not like the other girls" trope kinda applies there.
― peace, man, Friday, 9 April 2021 21:59 (three years ago) link
The lyrics read that way to me on paper, but I also hear some envy/wistfulness/insecurity in her younger voice that makes it more nuanced.
― Lily Dale, Friday, 9 April 2021 22:17 (three years ago) link
Like in the original version I can hear her wanting to buy into that trope because she's jealous; in the re-recording all I hear is the trope itself.
― Lily Dale, Friday, 9 April 2021 22:19 (three years ago) link
I also heard it as self-deprecating, in the original song. No one feels superior for sitting on the bleachers (well, a certain kind of snide teen does, but the character in the song isn't Daria).
― Yawnsomely Literal Cover Band (morrisp), Friday, 9 April 2021 22:22 (three years ago) link
But maybe you're right! Like, I think there could be elements of both that I had just never thought about.
Did give a listen to Forever & Always on better speakers and yeah, even though it's a decent performance of the song, the differences are kinda stark. Mostly on the production choices, I guess? I think the original was more driving. Also, there's a little artificial harmonic on the electric guitar in the second verse that's a huge point of joy for me in the song and they don't exactly nail it, I don't think.
It got me thinking about how people used to criticize TS for her lack of singing chops, which always confounded me because she sounded great to my untrained ears. Maybe what I liked were some of the vocal nuances that more singing-acquainted people would have considered bad singing and those have disappeared as she has grown as a professional singer? Or maybe she's just not all that worked up about Joe Jonas anymore and her heart wasn't all that in it.
― peace, man, Friday, 9 April 2021 22:23 (three years ago) link
As a high-school bleacher-sitter, I always felt way superior.
It was a false impression, but that's high school.
― peace, man, Friday, 9 April 2021 22:25 (three years ago) link
just wanted to say: "that's when"!!!!!!
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Saturday, 10 April 2021 00:41 (three years ago) link
― Lily Dale, Friday, April 9, 2021 4:13 PM (three days ago) bookmarkflaglink
I've been listening to this all weekend, and the vocal delivery is noticeably different throughout. What I hear is an artist who's worked a lot on things like breath control and pitch and is now delivering a much more sturdy, "professional" vocal track. Unfortunately there are places where it feels too clean, or maybe rehearsed is a better word.
And yes, I know *exactly* what you mean on "You Belong With Me." My favorite vocal on the entire original album was the end of verse 2 of "You Belong With Me" where she sings, "You say you're fine, I know you better than that/ Hey, what you doing with a girl like that?" The original is a super sweet falsetto that felt as though she had to work to hit what I assume is a rather tricky melody. It reads playful, naive, and yes, wistful is a good word, too. In the new one, she blows through the first falsetto as though she can now do it in her sleep, and then spits out a "what you doing with a girl LIKE that" in a more arrogant voice.
I know this reads as a criticism. I don't actually know if it's a good or bad thing. She's a far more capable vocalist now than she was when she first started, and I will happily listen to "Taylor's Version." But I'm actually a bit relieved to know others have noticed this too.
― Indexed, Monday, 12 April 2021 18:22 (three years ago) link
Having it on in the background, listening as a whole album, it mostly does the trick for me. I find myself getting wrapped up in it in a lot of the same places I do on the original album. I still think that Forever & Always didn't really get the performance it deserved and I imagine that there are other songs where it works that way for different listeners.
― peace, man, Monday, 12 April 2021 19:23 (three years ago) link
This is a nice song-by-song tribute that NPR put together with contributions from different writers and musicians.
https://www.npr.org/2021/04/12/985842675/still-fearless-re-recording-the-past-on-taylors-version
"Tell Me Why"Fearless found me at the most pivotal time in my life. I was making the transition from middle school to high school, started growing my hair out in dreads — which would become a staple of my look well into the beginning of my career — and I was finally starting to get a grip on songwriting. I'd started teaching myself guitar in elementary school and by 8th grade, I was proficient enough that everyone wanted me to accompany them at the school's talent show since my middle school didn't have a guitar program (unlike the surrounding schools). I felt kinship with Taylor Swift because she started writing songs really early on in her life and it gave me the confidence to continue to write. Fearless felt like a masterclass on songwriting, but "Tell Me Why" always stood out."Tell Me Why" taught me how to write a chord progression. Though it wasn't a single, or even necessarily one of my favorites off the record, it was my absolute favorite to play. Despite its heavy lyrics, the chord progression sounded equally breezy and flowy sonically. The chorus of "Tell Me Why" really stands out. It's wordy and longer than the average chorus, but it never feels clunky.Additionally, all three choruses in the song vary lyrically, which is something I always love to do. Obviously Taylor wasn't the first to do this, but she was the first I can remember doing it and making it sound as seamless as it was, thus creating yet another T Swift songwriting trick you can track throughout my entire discography — and, I'm sure, for future records to come. — Shamir, musician
"Tell Me Why" taught me how to write a chord progression. Though it wasn't a single, or even necessarily one of my favorites off the record, it was my absolute favorite to play. Despite its heavy lyrics, the chord progression sounded equally breezy and flowy sonically. The chorus of "Tell Me Why" really stands out. It's wordy and longer than the average chorus, but it never feels clunky.
Additionally, all three choruses in the song vary lyrically, which is something I always love to do. Obviously Taylor wasn't the first to do this, but she was the first I can remember doing it and making it sound as seamless as it was, thus creating yet another T Swift songwriting trick you can track throughout my entire discography — and, I'm sure, for future records to come. — Shamir, musician
― Indexed, Monday, 12 April 2021 22:41 (three years ago) link
Have a weird ask that I wonder if any of you may remember. I have this strong recollection of discovering Taylor's self-titled debut from a blog post circa 2007 that also covered Miranda Lambert's debut or maybe Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. As I remember the blog had a cartoon tiger in the header. Anyone have any clue what I'm talking about? I'd love to know who the writer was and find that post if it's still up somewhere...
― Indexed, Tuesday, 13 April 2021 18:06 (three years ago) link
I’m glad I bought this, for the “vault” tracks alone—they’re really good! (and what will probably keep me coming back to this version)
― Yawnsomely Literal Cover Band (morrisp), Friday, 16 April 2021 15:46 (three years ago) link
WELL WELL WELL you all really went out and left my greatest expectations in shambles this week.😆 Word on the street is you made Fearless (my version) the biggest country album 1st week of the last 6 years & the top release of 2021 so far. Honestly?? How?? Did I get this lucky??— Taylor Swift (@taylorswift13) April 16, 2021
― groovypanda, Friday, 16 April 2021 16:40 (three years ago) link
I’ve grown to like the re-recorded album tracks a lot now, too. I’ve basically been going back-and-forth between the two versions. What an album...
― best time to call is friday and saturday afternoons! (morrisp), Tuesday, 20 April 2021 05:45 (three years ago) link