Nah, I fully go with that statement. YHF is unfairly kicked these days, and has some (albeit isolated) moments of genuine avant-garde vision.
xxxp
― stoke for the shawcross (acoleuthic), Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:20 (fourteen years ago) link
I would be curious to know whether she thinks it's something to be listened to front-to-back.
― ksh, Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:20 (fourteen years ago) link
three discs doesnt make her 'weird' or 'inaccessible' it just makes it long
― max, Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:21 (fourteen years ago) link
If she sees this as a unified record to be listened to front-to-back, I think the fact that it is over two hours long is enough to make the record as a whole "inaccessible," even if its constituent parts aren't.
― ksh, Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:23 (fourteen years ago) link
I see where you're coming from though.
― ksh, Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:24 (fourteen years ago) link
i mean... 'inaccessible' in some sense? but thats not what were talking about is it? were talking about the arc of her career (pop --> weird vs. weird --> pop) or whatever. and even then its like... i dont think shes doing any of the things ppl are ascribing to her
― max, Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:25 (fourteen years ago) link
haha whiney if it goes down msg me with an official declaration so's i'll know. is it true you took the hardman award home from TwitterCon???
― zvookster, Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:28 (fourteen years ago) link
I know Whiney abandoned the argument, but I think there's a legit discussion to be had about art school rock (or whatever they call it) v. "authentic" avant garde, and where Newsom falls into that spectrum
― Mordy, Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:29 (fourteen years ago) link
oh jesus pls don't say authentic even in scare quotes
― zvocksucker (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:30 (fourteen years ago) link
haha yeah because your use of the word "real" last time around was way better
― max, Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:30 (fourteen years ago) link
tbaa i don't think it matters much how schooled-on-a-remote-mountain my arty music is
― stoke for the shawcross (acoleuthic), Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:32 (fourteen years ago) link
tbaa = touched by an angel?
― Mordy, Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:34 (fourteen years ago) link
max I think "longer" does = "less accessible" to an extent - even, like, recall when Elvis Costello was making 20-song albums: it was asking a lot of a listener - even saying "look, you don't have to listen to it all at once" is kind of asking for more attention & engagement from the listener than a standard album, which is just, here's a known format, you know what to do, put it on and give it +/- three quarters of an hour, do other stuff while it spins, enjoy.
― Lee Dorrian Gray (J0hn D.), Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:42 (fourteen years ago) link
yeah sure
― max, Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:45 (fourteen years ago) link
id just hope that there is more to the "joanna newsom is getting MORE weird" theory than "she released a triple LP"
she also puts ketchup on her oatmeal iirc
― Lee Dorrian Gray (J0hn D.), Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:00 (fourteen years ago) link
max is the only person who is making any sense in here--the album is broken up into three 6-song discs for those of us who still buy cds--it is extremely accessible.
― call all destroyer, Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:01 (fourteen years ago) link
all this talk of avant garde/artistic pretensions is insane--she's basically a folk singer.
― call all destroyer, Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:02 (fourteen years ago) link
doesn't really matter how many records its broken up across, it's still one piece
― ksh, Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:04 (fourteen years ago) link
assuming we can still call HOOM qua collection of songs an album
― ksh, Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:05 (fourteen years ago) link
like joanna, i think Mastodon is another band who used to be great with simple weirdo-rock and are now just look silly trying to be a serious, art-prog band.
― zvocksucker (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, February 28, 2010 3:14 PM (48 minutes ago) Bookmark
also this is wrong in a sense--mastodon has gotten compositionally more "serious" and "prog" but actually their music, part-to-part, is much less intricate. this is why they are an occasionally enjoyable, mor metal band now.
― call all destroyer, Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:05 (fourteen years ago) link
ksh i don't really want to get into a "what is an album" discussion but the point is that hoom has two logical break points that open wide the door to the listener digesting it in pieces.
― call all destroyer, Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:07 (fourteen years ago) link
all this talk of avant garde/artistic pretensions is insane--she's basically a folk singer.― call all destroyer
― call all destroyer
the point I was trying to make upthread is that of course it's ridiculous for people to call her music avant-garde, but for some reason people do it, again and again
― ksh, Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:08 (fourteen years ago) link
yeah i guess i'm just going to get annoyed if we can only talk about this record through the lens how how some mysterious constructed 25-35 year old thinks of it.
― call all destroyer, Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:10 (fourteen years ago) link
re "digested in pieces"
when it comes to a novel or something, it's just sort of assumed that the reader will take it in in multiple sittings. but with a record that isn't some sort of multi-disk compilation or something, with an album, i think there's sort of an expectation that it will be taken in in one sitting, so spreading something across three discs is going to try the patience of many listeners.
― ksh, Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:10 (fourteen years ago) link
ok here's a hint--by running time, this could have fit on two cds.
― call all destroyer, Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:12 (fourteen years ago) link
this is a degree of whiny tight-assery that should be filed under some word that "first world problems" won't adequately cover
― allyboy (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, February 22, 2010 12:44 PM (6 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― jeff, Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:12 (fourteen years ago) link
it's two hours long. i don't know about you, but i think the ideal length for a record is somewhere between a half hour and fifty minutes nine cases out of ten. not to say this one should be shorter, but even as a JN stan, i really can't see myself listening to this straight through too often, if ever.
― ksh, Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:14 (fourteen years ago) link
and if i start to listen to it in parts instead of straight through, then that's a really different approach to listening to a record than i, and i'd assume many of us here, usually take.
― ksh, Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:15 (fourteen years ago) link
yes--you are making my point for me--it is broken up across three discs so that you don't need to listen to it straight through. if you feel some weirdo obligation to because it's an "album" i don't know what to tell you.
― call all destroyer, Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:16 (fourteen years ago) link
i listen to parts of albums all the time--since i mostly listen to music when i'm driving or walking somewhere i'm beholden to however long my trips are.
fair enough, cad
― ksh, Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:22 (fourteen years ago) link
At least Whiney sticks to his guns when he has an opinion, kshighway keeps backing down whenever his opinions are challenged. I can tell you which of the two I admire more.
― you gone float up with it (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:27 (fourteen years ago) link
I liked kshighway more when he was an earnest indie boy before he melded his opinions to match whatever ILM consensus happens to be.
― you gone float up with it (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:30 (fourteen years ago) link
or someone makes a good point--like cad did when he pointed out some people listen to music differently than i do--and i realize i'm off a bit.
― ksh, Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:31 (fourteen years ago) link
jon dont be a dick
― max, Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:31 (fourteen years ago) link
i liked jon more when he was an agreeable and engaging ilm poster and not a complete dick
― stoke for the shawcross (acoleuthic), Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:31 (fourteen years ago) link
I liked kshighway more when he was an earnest indie boy before he melded his opinions to match whatever ILM consensus happens to be.― you gone float up with it (jon /via/ chi 2.0)
― you gone float up with it (jon /via/ chi 2.0)
O_O
― ksh, Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:32 (fourteen years ago) link
If my opinions were the same as "ILM consensus" (whatever that means), I don't think I'd get called out by people daily who think I'm completely wrong. Nice try, though.
― ksh, Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:33 (fourteen years ago) link
Also, pretty sure Whiney dropped one of his opinions upthread when people called him out on it too. Because that's what reasonable people do when someone obviously proves them wrong.
― ksh, Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:35 (fourteen years ago) link
I've just never seen someone switch from earnest and passionate to jaded and bitter so quickly, its disheartening that he felt the need to do so.
― you gone float up with it (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:35 (fourteen years ago) link
Not intentionally being a dick. I just liked kshighway when he was more earnest about what he loved.
― you gone float up with it (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:36 (fourteen years ago) link
there are many sides to ksh
― velko, Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:36 (fourteen years ago) link
ksh = american jagger, let's just move on with our lives
― waka flocka pedia (J0rdan S.), Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:37 (fourteen years ago) link
Uh, in the past day, I've thanked the people in the Rolling Metal thread for turning me on to Alcest, whose 2007 record I'm "earnest and passionate" about?
― ksh, Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:38 (fourteen years ago) link
Hmm yeah but on this thread you've ragged on people who've mostly just been trying to defend Newsom! It's fine to call bullshit on the arguments, but character-attacks aren't on. Especially coming from someone I rate and respect as an ILM poster.
― stoke for the shawcross (acoleuthic), Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:38 (fourteen years ago) link
American jagger, stay away from meAmerican jagger, mama let me beDon't come hanging around my doorI don't want to see your face no moreI got more important things to doThan spend my time growin' old with youNow jagger, stay awayAmerican jagger, listen what I say
American jagger, get away from meAmerican jagger, mama let me beDon't come knocking around my doorI don't want to see your shadow no moreColored lights can hypnotizeSparkle someone else's eyesNow jagger, get awayAmerican jagger, listen what I say
― Mr. Que, Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:39 (fourteen years ago) link
LJ, was that addressed to me or jon?
― ksh, Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:40 (fourteen years ago) link
And jon,
Man, I have so much love for Ys, but I could see why some would prefer Mender.Wilco did "avant-garde" better with YHF, tho. . . . . . . . . .― ksh, Sunday, February 28, 2010 3:18 PM (1 hour ago)
Wilco did "avant-garde" better with YHF, tho. . . . . . . . . .
― ksh, Sunday, February 28, 2010 3:18 PM (1 hour ago)
Except for the Wilco joke, pretty sure this qualifies as earnest too. But I'm done defending myself now, thanks.
hahaha que
― waka flocka pedia (J0rdan S.), Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:40 (fourteen years ago) link