Hatred of Itunes

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i'm insulted no one's shocked i don't use them either.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 18:59 (eighteen years ago) link

hahahahaha, slocki.

i'm not into itunes.

rrrobyn (rrrobyn), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 18:59 (eighteen years ago) link

People who "love their folders" always seem to take 15 minutes to find stuff they want to play you.

R.I.P. Concrete Octopus ]-`: is a guy with a belly button piercing (ex machina), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 19:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Tracer, I'm kind of disgusted that you would make a playlist just for an album, if that's any consolation.

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 19:00 (eighteen years ago) link

rrobyn, you are beneath contempt.

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 19:01 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't bother with playlists, smart or otherwise, unless I'm burning CDs. Disgust away.

Allyzay Rofflesberger (allyzay), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 19:04 (eighteen years ago) link

disgus

s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 19:05 (eighteen years ago) link

OK then, can anyone tell me the best way to a) import a folder of songs (i.e. an album) and b) keep the songs in the right order, without iTunes coming up with its own random, dickish order or sorting things by title or whatever. the only way i've found that keeps the sequence intact is to drag the folder directly into the playlists area. then it works. i realize i am an idiot.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 19:06 (eighteen years ago) link

i also use the albumart dashboard widget which is great b/c it doesn't keep a seperate library of art but integrates right in -- (and also lets you set star ratings w/o bringing up itunes) and then with iscrobbler and growl i get pretty albumart heads up displays every times tracks change.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 19:07 (eighteen years ago) link

sort by "albums" (xp)

s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 19:08 (eighteen years ago) link

you have to make sure the songs are tagged properly of course

s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 19:08 (eighteen years ago) link

itunes' media library is terrible

no folder monitoring = fuck that

mark p (Mark P), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 19:08 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh yeah, Tracer, it does tend to add them in a dickish order, but if the tracks are tagged with track numbers then it's easy to make them play in the right order.

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 19:09 (eighteen years ago) link

s1ocki i never thought of that! mainly because i don't have that column visible, usually. i'm very minmal with what i show, usually just song, artist, and running time. so you're saying if i make "album" column visible, then click on that header, it will sort the songs correctly as long as the songs are tagged with that album?

i mean it all seems a bit foolish and long way round especially when the actual song files in the folder have track numbers prepended to their filenames already, but iTunes either diregards this or can't figure it out.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 19:14 (eighteen years ago) link

no folder monitoring = fuck that

Dude, do you want it freaking out every time you download an mp3 automatically?

FOR FUCK'S SAKE DO YOU PEOPLE NOT GET THE IDEA OF METADATA?

R.I.P. Concrete Octopus ]-`: is a guy with a belly button piercing (ex machina), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 19:15 (eighteen years ago) link

FILENAMES ARE NOT A GOOD META DATA STORE TRUST ME.... DO YOU WANT TO LISTEN TO 984595498 SONGS THAT BEGIN WITH "IN" BY "AT THE DRIVE"?

R.I.P. Concrete Octopus ]-`: is a guy with a belly button piercing (ex machina), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 19:16 (eighteen years ago) link

In Stockholm in 1979, Flynt coined the term meta-technology for a technology which acts transformatively on consensus determinations of reality. It was a label for an entire range of his investigations into contradiction, reality-classification of perceptual gestalts, and perceiver-percept interdependence. Meta-technology can be compared to an intellectual attack on civilization from outer space. It proved unpopular because the orientation of those who are attracted to instrumental reality-pictures (science) is careerist and mercenary.

YOU ARE ALL LIBERAL ARTS IDIOTS (ex machina), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 19:16 (eighteen years ago) link

the only reason I can even tell you and Tom's posts apart anymore on this board is that you're usually blowing your wad on computah threads and he's freaking out on movie threads. Otherwise it'd be impossible.

Allyzay Rofflesberger (allyzay), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 19:16 (eighteen years ago) link

e-dog, will you just live by the seat of your pants and play the songs in the wrong order? What is with you people and your ordering and your rules? Just let it go. BUT if you have everything tagged properly (A MEAN FUCKING FEAT AT TIMES) then yes, what you just said will work for what your heart is desiring.

Allyzay Rofflesberger (allyzay), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 19:18 (eighteen years ago) link

I'm going to use the confusion...

TO MY ADVANTAGE

R.I.P. Concrete Octopus ]-`: is a guy with a belly button piercing (ex machina), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 19:22 (eighteen years ago) link

This thread is a thing of beauty and a joy forever: I spend so much time on my metadata it's, uh, really sad. I was embarrassingly overjoyed the day I realised that if you put the artist's name in as 'grouping' and sort by that, it'll automatically sort within /that/ by album (without that irritating thing where 'blahblah feat x' comes after 'blahblah' regardless of where it is in the tracklisting, and without having to keep everything sorted by album).

permanent revolution (cis), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 19:22 (eighteen years ago) link

iTunes tags everything properly. This has been one of the best things about filesharing in the past few years.

R.I.P. Concrete Octopus ]-`: is a guy with a belly button piercing (ex machina), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 19:23 (eighteen years ago) link

yes but half the time, iTunes tagging everything properly results in chinese/japanese/korean names coming out as incomprehensible gobbledygook and not being able to find the original romanised mp3 files to check names on.

permanent revolution (cis), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 19:27 (eighteen years ago) link

Well, only if the database information is correct. And if you transfer over stuff from an old computer where things weren't tagged 100% correct then it gets quite messy. also foreign language issues pop up sometimes so you have to manually change them or just let that slide...

xpost

Allyzay Rofflesberger (allyzay), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 19:29 (eighteen years ago) link

Windows or OS X?

I meant that it tags things properly when it rips them. It isn't iTunes fault if other programs produce bad unicode tags that it eats. It even provides options for unwrangling them.

xpost

R.I.P. Concrete Octopus ]-`: is a guy with a belly button piercing (ex machina), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 19:30 (eighteen years ago) link

I get annoyed with not knowing where chinese/japanese characters fall alphabetically

R.I.P. Concrete Octopus ]-`: is a guy with a belly button piercing (ex machina), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 19:30 (eighteen years ago) link

I've had problems with trying to use iTunes to unwrangle bad tags but OTOH as detailed many times over I have a bum computer that for some reason likes to eat its own iTunes and iPod regularly, so I don't know if this is a "my computer only" issue.

I've solved the problem by not bothering and being like "Haha suckas who download my shit can figure that out."

xpost I get annoyed when it turns up the ones that are like half in Japanese and half in English but neither in a manner that helps you figure out wtf it is!

Allyzay Rofflesberger (allyzay), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 19:32 (eighteen years ago) link

worst albums so far for that kinda shit:
katamarcy damacy OST
brat 2 OST
the cowboy bebop remixes album

My problem with fixing the tags is that if I rip the album before fixing it manually in the uh rip screen it refuses to let me change the tags later. Like, it'll change it and then when I click to play the song, poof back to gobbledy-gook.

Allyzay Rofflesberger (allyzay), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 19:34 (eighteen years ago) link

thankfully I realized this before I ripped a couple Denki Grooves and fixed in advance but oftentimes I forget because it's not supposed to be like that :(

Allyzay Rofflesberger (allyzay), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 19:35 (eighteen years ago) link

knowing where chinese/japanese fall alphabetically == why i have the groupings romanised! (also cos then i can search for things titled in chinese without all the faff of chinese input)

i think the way they sort it is hiragana/katakana a-i-u-e-o-ka-ki-ku-ke-ko etc, then by radical; so, you know, unless you happen to know the order of radicals in both languages back-to-front...

permanent revolution (cis), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 19:37 (eighteen years ago) link

SOLUTION:

Get better music!

xpost

R.I.P. Concrete Octopus ]-`: is a guy with a belly button piercing (ex machina), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 19:38 (eighteen years ago) link

AzN iMpOrT wOrKz GrEaT oN oSx!

R.I.P. Concrete Octopus ]-`: is a guy with a belly button piercing (ex machina), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 19:38 (eighteen years ago) link

SOLUTION:

Don't use retarded computers!

Allyzay Rofflesberger (allyzay), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 19:39 (eighteen years ago) link

http://www.wsfa.org/journal/j94/b/prodigy.jpg

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 19:43 (eighteen years ago) link

the problem with itunes and "watch folders" is that when you "open" a file in itunes it imports AND plays at once.

i don't know if there's a silent add trick other than dragging and dropping to the library but in any case you can just make a watch folder that does whatever magic is possible with totally minimal applescripting.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 19:45 (eighteen years ago) link

Library scientists should study you people.

Question: I want to show the various metadata screens for a project I am doing. Is there any way to select these and print them out? When I call them up I couldn't find a way to print them out.

Mary (Mary), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 19:46 (eighteen years ago) link

use 1 screencapture program.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 19:47 (eighteen years ago) link

assuming you have a mac all the screencapture tips are documented extensively in help.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 19:48 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah really, this is total delusional talk. There are programs that fix your filenames for you, ie FileRenamer. Tagging is no more reliable than filenaming, and just confuses things when it comes to filesharing.

Look at all the hassle and BS people go through with iTunes and ipods, and the entire appeal of a mac is that it's user-friendly even to "liberal arts idiots," who by the way are typically the only people to defend macs.

No possible defense can be made for iTunes run on a PC, it is so shitty that it must be a deliberate attempt to sabotage the PC experience. That attempt, that Ned linked to above, to keep Apple from forcing ipod users to install TEH HATED ITUNES and KEEP THE ENTIRE HUGE IPOD PLAYLIST STORED ON THE HD EXACTLY AS IS is amazing. If it ever comes to it, though, I think Apple would rather lose the entire European market than give consumers any kind of freedom.

richardk (Richard K), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 19:51 (eighteen years ago) link

excellent; I see I do it using a little known doohicky called by the name of grab--thank you

Mary (Mary), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 19:53 (eighteen years ago) link

To answer the question as to why iTunes + Quicktime properly. When apple brought Quicktime to the PC, rather than recode Quicktime for the PC they coded large chunks of their basic APIs for intel/Windows and quictime runs on top of these. This makes coding cross platform quicktime apps a lot easier. iTunes followed this approach as well.

Basically when you install iTune+quicktime, you are installing a large chunk of OS X lots of the Carbon and Cocoa APIs), every update includes any updates and bugfixes to these chunks of OS X, I guess they figure it is better to reinstall from scratch every time than to patch.

It is a bugger though.

Ed (dali), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 20:04 (eighteen years ago) link

itunes + library does NOT confuse things when it comes to filesharing coz it keeps a nice directory hierarchy too.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 20:06 (eighteen years ago) link

Dude, do you want it freaking out every time you download an mp3 automatically?

FOR FUCK'S SAKE DO YOU PEOPLE NOT GET THE IDEA OF METADATA?

folder monitoring doesn't have to be instantaneous! DO YOU NOT GET THE IDEA OF SCHEDULED TASKS

mark p (Mark P), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 20:07 (eighteen years ago) link

FOLDER ACTIONS!!!!

http://www.dougscripts.com/itunes/itinfo/folderaction01.php

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 20:15 (eighteen years ago) link

does anyone use songbird?

s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 20:16 (eighteen years ago) link

No possible defense can be made for iTunes run on a PC, it is so shitty that it must be a deliberate attempt to sabotage the PC experience.

Try using the Mac version of Windows Media player! That may be the worst "media" software ever.

That attempt, that Ned linked to above, to keep Apple from forcing ipod users to install TEH HATED ITUNES and KEEP THE ENTIRE HUGE IPOD PLAYLIST STORED ON THE HD EXACTLY AS IS is amazing.

Uh, you can manually move stuff to the iPod inside iTunes. USE 1 BRANE MORAN

If it ever comes to it, though, I think Apple would rather lose the entire European market than give consumers any kind of freedom.

Dude, you can still do whatever you want with all your DRM-free music. Do you really think the DRM music from anyone else is any better? At least Apple Music Store works on more than one platform!

R.I.P. Concrete Octopus ]-`: is a guy with a belly button piercing (ex machina), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 20:26 (eighteen years ago) link

oh, I forgot this:

Yeah really, this is total delusional talk. There are programs that fix your filenames for you, ie FileRenamer. Tagging is no more reliable than filenaming, and just confuses things when it comes to filesharing.

Did you read what I wrote upthread?
ARTIST: At the Drive
SONG: In-One Armed Scissor

BAD BAD BAD SOLUTION.

iTunes will rename the filenames and manage the folder hierarchy to keep it in line with the metadata store if you let it. There is no problem.

R.I.P. Concrete Octopus ]-`: is a guy with a belly button piercing (ex machina), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 20:28 (eighteen years ago) link

the problem with itunes and "watch folders" is that when you "open" a file in itunes it imports AND plays at once.

You know, they ARE programmers. If this were to be integrated into iTunes, they could make it do it right :)

folder monitoring doesn't have to be instantaneous! DO YOU NOT GET THE IDEA OF SCHEDULED TASKS

That isn't folder monitoring. Monitoring is either instantaneous or happens over a very short cycle time via something like Linux's FAM. If you want the batch task sort of behavior, there's all kinds of applications to let you do that. Now, sometimes I am actually doing something intensive on my computer and I wouldn't want iTunes import to take up any memory or cpu (unlike you sad people who spend your lives in Word and complaining that iTunes is too hard) so I wouldn't want this kind of thing.

FOLDER ACTIONS!!!!

The problem with Folder actions is that the actions only register from Finder actions IIRC. This means that file transfer programs will not register events upon download completetion.

R.I.P. Concrete Octopus ]-`: is a guy with a belly button piercing (ex machina), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 20:36 (eighteen years ago) link

PS - canadians r dum

R.I.P. Concrete Octopus ]-`: is a guy with a belly button piercing (ex machina), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 20:36 (eighteen years ago) link

haha jon i am NOT arguing with you about mp3 programs on the internet

mark p (Mark P), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 21:24 (eighteen years ago) link


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