POLL: Which left a bigger shit-stain on the '90s? Swing or Ska

Also as mentioned up-thread post-grunge is a much greater blob of suck in the 90s than either swing or ska. Being in a ska band is the greatest thing ever when you're 18 and at least with swing you had pretty good chance of going to a party and drinking something better than cheap convenience store beer.

Best commentary on 90s swing comes from the "Life In The Past Lane" episode of Daria.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn0EOgCPqRU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aZOTX1UIWE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_VG7A1LGSo

post-grunge is a much greater blob of suck in the 90s than either swing or ska

I figured that was just a given. Anyway, if I'd included post-grunge in this poll, it would've won overwhelmingly.

To emend what I wrote upthread, there was a notable exception to the litany of crap ska bands in mid-Michigan at the time: Mustard Plug, who had been around since the late-80s or so, I believe, were super-tight did a kind of Specials via Op Ivy thing.

I'd also give a pass to Royal Crown Revue if only because the Youth Brigade guys wanted to play some music that their parents would like too.

The swing stuff barely scratched the surface, so I am going to say that the ska stuff tried too hard and ended up blowing more in the long run.

What about Bop (Harvey) ?

http://www.theonion.com/content/from_print/obamas_embarrassing_ska

Swing, so completely.

At least the 90s ska bands had a sort of lineage…one that went from Skatalites, Laurel Aitken, Prince Buster, and Desmond Dekker to the UK mods, who were simultaneously being influenced by Punk and created 2-Tone—where bands like The Specials and the Beat gained popularity, and in turn found fans in the US. Bands like The Toasters have been doing their thing since the early 80s, and might have even been considered 2-tone themselves, if not for other US acts like Fishbone, who folded in their metal and funk influences, and by around '87-'88, there were bands like OPIV, Voodoo Glow Skulls, and the Bosstones who were liking where the music was going and made their hardcore punk w/ ska rhythms and other signifiers. From there, it kind of went all over the place…from a bunch of OC "mallpunks w/ horns" like Reel Big Fish and Jeffrey's Fanclub, to the neo-trad stuff of Hepcat, SeeSpot, Chris Murray, and The Slackers.

As for Oingo Boingo, there is a connection: while they had some elements of the ska rhythm in a few of their songs, their bassist John Avila produced many late-90s ska LPs.

My own preferences tended towards the Neo-trad groups, if only for the emphasis on rhythm and the great vocal harmonies.

going to go out on a big old contrarian/challops limb here and say that as shitty as a lot of this stuff was, i'll take it over the fucking maudlin interchangeable other rock options available at the time. i had a lot of drunk fun at crappy ska shows at the time, and danced with a lot of good looking ladies at swing crap as well. better than getting stuck at a better than ezra show, because as stupid as the ska revival was and as shitty as most of the neo-swing was, at least it was fun.

also, the drummer from royal crown review was a badass gene crupa channeling motherfucker, and anything that gets peeps to listen to louis prima and keely smith is ok by me.

Was the 90s swing revival purely an American thing? Because I can't remember anything like that happening in here, in fact I only learned there had been such a revival when I was reading ILX in the 00s. (Whereas 3rd generation ska had much bigger impact here, and is still going on.) Back in the day I thought that band in the school dance scene in Clueless was just a curiosity, I didn't realize it was part of some swing revival.

(American) ska has a pretty respectful history, though. Certainly not in the mallpunk-with-horns movement, but the whole scooter/skinny tie sort of scene is kind of enjoyable. Before it went mainstream ('80s - 1994), it was a really impressive underground scene that encapsulated a LOT of musical diversity and a ridiculously strong indie DIY culture. There were strong regional scenes all over the country with their own distinct sound and aesthetic. Provided, only about half of it was *good*, but it's all nonetheless fascinating. In the aftermath of Green Day, the media focused only on the shitty pop-punk hybrids like Reel Big Fish, which forever ruined the scene as thousands of bland ska-punk clones flooded the market and continue to spawn despite our best efforts. At least there was *some* tolerability...Less Than Jake were decent lyricists, if nothing else.

Neo-swing, on the other hand, was rooted entirely in nostalgic kitsch. There was no diversity, it was all novelty. Unlike ska, which took an older form of music and updated it with a modern sensibility, neo-swing was just a pointless rehash that added a gimmicky retro angle. Just about every band sounded the same and they were all devoid of lyrical substance, instead preferring to do straight covers of big band songs. Brian Setzer is the worst: he's just a phony retro-whore who's successful simply because he's pandering to the public's inexplicable love of nostalgia. And that's all the swing revival was.

Now, I hate neo-swing, but I'll rep for the Cherry Poppin' Daddies. Prior to "Zoot Suit Riot", they were a really decent punk-funk-jazz-psychedelic band that were sort of like Oingo Boingo and the Butthole Surfers meets Funkadelic and Duke Ellington. It's a love-it-or-hate-it deal, but I like it. They converted a ride-on lawnmower into a giant drivable dildo that shot fake cum out of the tip, so that's okay with me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wb6fOIMSwBA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xNORXC60_4
They tried latching onto the ska scene in the mid-90s, but after that failed, they jumped onto swing as it was becoming popular, put on suits, released a swing album and that's when they took off. Yeah, they sold out HARD: all the swing stuff they did at that time is painfully trite. If there's anything redeemable about it, it's that they were the only swing band that swore, and they were the only ones who didn't do the whole "retro" schtick. They wrote songs about child abuse, social alienation, alcoholism and suicide, and they did very few covers, one of which was an Operation Ivy song. I think they also did a Suicidal Tendencies cover, as well. As a swing band, that's a move that sorta takes balls, even if the outcome is most likely awful.

I voted "swing", because it was awful from the get-go in concept alone. Ska's been getting progressively worse, but there are at least a few bands that make it bearable, like The Slackers.

guys get ready cuz ska is back
http://www.sublimewithrome.com/

uh... great I guess? I'm totally fine with Sublime ruining their legacy.

Can't find that Gap ad w/ Louis Prima's song on youtube :-(

The Götterdämmerung of 90s swing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzFkZb4OlDM

this thread is tldr for me right now but i voted swing. either way, i'm so fucking glad i didn't live in southern california in the nineties.

It...was a time.

I guess I can stomach bad swing because they are generally better players. I just have no use for ska on pretty much any level. At least not after about 1987. Maybe there's some good No Doubt that I'm missing.

As for the Daddies, they were around doing their own thing for at least 8 years before they had a fluke of a hit. Of course they ran with it.

Ska was fun, even though not by any means as good as the original British ska-punk movement in the late 70s/early 80s. Swing was also not the worst of 90s music, unless you mean New Jack Swing, which was indeed horrible (as in, almost as horrible as the hip-hop that influenced it)

Has anyone heard this band 23 skadoo? Do they combine ska and swing -- skwang?

I can't stop laughing at that.

I'm not joking. I was googling to see if someone had actually taken this name and someone did.

I've stopped laughing.

http://www.cinemotions.net/data/films/0181/42/1/affiche_Swing_Kids_1992_1.jpg

Ha! I completely forgot about that movie.

godwin's law amirite

DANS UN MONDE >>>>> IN A WORLD

Hen Fap vs Ska Punk

Ska Skank Redemption guys

from WAY upthread:

It really was fascinating in a really horrifying way to see how quickly that swing revival took over and, just as quickly, faded away again. I mean, really, was there ever any fucking reason for seven(!) different campus bars in Champaign-Urbana to host their own weekly swing nights? Of course fucking not. It was ridiculous and unsustainable. I kinda wish I would have gotten to know the few dudes I saw that showed up all over town wearing fedoras to dance to Brian Setzer, mostly because I'm still oddly curious to know what they did after that scene dried up.

my armchair socio-economist take: yeah, in a way the swing revival (such as it was) was a good metaphor for the entire dot.com bubble. these bubbles both appeared and disappeared @ roughly the same time and worked on underpants gnome logic. at least we got cheap high-speed bandwidth outta the dot.com bubble; hard to think of anything good that came outta the neo-swing trend.

an example: this one club in my town circa 1998-1999 used to have weekly swing nights. since then, it's been a total bottle-service guido-pandering joint. dunno which incarnation is aesthetically worse, though pandering to NYC-metro area guidos definitely seems like an infinitely more sustainable & profitable business model than pandering to Dean Martin/Louis Prima wannabes.

both were fairly harmless, no? of the two, ska was more annoying simply cuz it is aesthetically less pleasing to me, and swing at least brought the style to the kids who were much too young...can't say I listen to either, or give a rat's ass about either.

i am more hostile to ska revival b/c it was more inescapable during the late 90s. plus i had nothing but hate & contempt for Sublime after hearing their indefensible-by-any-standard "date rape" song which carried over the entire neo-ska thing in my mind anyway. the swing revival was just a weird passing blip.

sublime fail for their "romeo" cover which was essentially just them saying "OMG DESCENDENTS WERE STUPID TO NOT KNOW THIS SONG WORKED BETTER AT A FASTER TEMPO"

anyway, i agree most w/ the numerous folks on this thread who pointed out that neo-grunge bands were infinitely worse than either of the ska or swing revivals. esp. since we still aren't rid of neo-grunge (i.e., Nickelback et. al.). i can only praise the kids from back in the day who at least were looking for a fun alternative to late-90s "alternative," even if the music that they got into was just as shitty.

I'm not joking. I was googling to see if someone had actually taken this name and someone did.

So that means there's an ACTUAL ska-swing band???

So that means there's an ACTUAL ska-swing band???

Why is that so surprising? Ska and swing hit the mainstream at almost exactly the same time, of course there'd be cross-genre fusions. Ska bands played swing songs (esp. the Bosstones), swing bands played ska songs (esp. the Daddies), and there were tons of only-lasted-a-month garage bands that fused the two together. From what I can tell, only one group achieved moderate success, a Christian ska-swing band called The W's, who are exactly as God-awful as you would expect, no pun intended.

Just for that, I'm voting for BOTH in the poll. :/

From what I can tell, only one group achieved moderate success

Well, that's why it's surprising. Needless to say, I've never heard of The W's, thank (their) god.

their indefensible-by-any-standard "date rape" song which carried over the entire neo-ska thing in my mind anyway.

No idea why you would think this song is indefensible. Do you actually approve of date rape or something?

I mean, I could see getting upset about one of their songs that advocates drinking or drug-use, but this is a song about the justice system working for women. Oh no, people shouldn't write songs about that.

Ha! I completely forgot about that movie.

― Johnny Fever, Friday, February 26, 2010 1:59 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark

Swing Heil! Swing Heil!

Since I already revealed on this thread that I was a p embarrassing teenager, I may as well go ahead and admit that Swing Kids was my favorite movie for a while in HS. Granted this was largely due to the fact that Bale and Leonard looked damn hot in those suits but yeah, still. I recently found a photo album I kept when I was 14/15 and on the inside cover I'd doodled the following "The Cure, Yaz, Depeche Mode and . . . Swing Kids."

ha! that is funny.

No idea why you would think this song is indefensible.

Lyrical intent aside, it is really shitty.

No idea why you would think this song is indefensible. Do you actually approve of date rape or something?

yes, i am aware that the song is anti-date rape (how very white of them, as my grandparents would say). doesn't stop it from basically being a extended fag joke (b/c he "gets it in the end," you see, prison rape is so funny), a smug Cautionary Tale for drunk frat-boys who like fag jokes and weren't above a little date-rape themselves (and probably missed the point [such as it was]). plus the music was shit (even by Sublime's standards).

Can we seriously stop with the "guys who like questionable music are frat-boy date-rapers" meme please? I mean, fuck, ILX should be a little bit above that. It's a shitty song, but at least hate it for the many, many legitimate reasons.

I sure do hate those frat boys

I was an assistant manager at a record store in a small resort town during the 90s, and in a rare moment of market awareness, my boss had us create a separate ska section to meet customer demand. We then got a reputation as having a lot of ska CDs for sale (like, two rows of them!) which attracted the most annoying clientele ever. Now my feelings about ska as a music are way too caught up in my residual feelings of rage about the many times I had to chase some mall punk tourist junior high schooler in a Less Than Jake t-shirt and JNCO shorts down the boardwalk to retrieve stolen ska CDs.

man you could probably fit a whole ton of ska CDs into a pair of JNCOs

Definitely the shorts of choice for the shoplifting youth of America. At least the swing revival costume involved tighter pants and in my experience, no dude ever tried to hide a Squirrel Nut Zippers CD in his pompadour.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
July 14, 2009

CHERRY POPPIN’ DADDIES TO RELEASE TWO ALBUMS IN SEPTEMBER

In celebration of the bands 20th year in the music business, Eugene, Oregon’s horn-heavy, genre-bending, multi-platinum-selling Cherry Poppin’ Daddies are giving store shelves a double shot of musical goodness in September: both “Susquehanna” and “Skaboy JFK: the Skankin’ hits of the Cherry Poppin’ Daddies” are scheduled for release on September 29, 2009, on Rock Ridge Music/Space Age Bachelor Pad Records. “Susquehanna” will finally receive its national release, as it was previously only available on the band’s website, while “Skaboy JFK” is a compilation of new ska tracks with older Cherry Poppin’ Daddies ska songs (some of which have been re-recorded) in a collection that comes off like a classic of the genre.

Says CPD band leader Steve Perry: “We are excited to be working with Rock Ridge Music on the release of ‘Skaboy JFK,’ because we have had a previous successful working relationship with their CEO Tom Derr, while we were both at Universal Records. Rock Ridge has done a great job promoting and distributing Reel Big Fish records (our ex label mates) and this record is directed at some of the same markets, so it’s a perfect fit for us. We also made a deal to have Rock Ridge distribute and promote our 2008 recording, ‘Susquehanna,’ which had previously not received distribution outside of our web site. This is our coming-out party after a bit of a self-imposed hiatus, and we are happy to be with a company with such great industry bona fides.”

“As has been done by Steve and CPD, Rock Ridge again sees the opportunity to break some ground, break some rules, and break into dance," says Rock Ridge Music CEO Tom Derr about the upcoming Cherry Poppin’ Daddies releases.

“Susquehanna” brings together the Daddies West Coast retro style and Latin influences: Flamenco, Greaser Rock, Swing, Ska, Glam, and Soca to name a few. The album is an experiment in narrative storytelling through shifting genres. “I wanted each song to come across as a chapter in a modernist novel,” Perry says of the record, “like James Joyce’s ‘Ulysses,’ where the literary style/genre that each chapter is written in is radically different. So it’s a pop album, disjointed, and maybe even jarring, in style and structure, but it’s thematically coherent.”

Like their 1998 multi-platinum smash “Zoot Suit Riot: the Swingin’ hits of…,” the new album, “Skaboy JFK: the Skankin’ Hits of the Cherry Poppin’ Daddies,” will emphasize a single genre, this time the 60’s era up-tempo form of pre-reggae Jamaican soul known as ska. “Skaboy” will combine four new recordings with tracks from the group’s earlier catalogue, reflecting all the waves and varieties of ska: Traditional/Bluebeat (“2:29,” “Soul Cadillac”), Two Tone (“Hammerblow,” “Skaboy JFK”), Third Wave (“Hi and Lo,” “Sockable Face Club”). There are even funky Fishbone-esque hybrids for good measure (“Slapstick”).

With “Skaboy” the Daddies plan to reconnect with a ska audience that is largely aware of the band as merely a swing band. “We toured with many of the iconic ska bands when we were coming up,” Perry says, “like the Mighty Mighty Bosstones, Fishbone, Reel Big Fish, The Specials, No Doubt, and Madness, but at that time, we were really touring behind ‘Zoot Suit Riot,’ so we didn’t play a ton of ska in our sets. Now we will.”

Speaking of sets, the band plans to tour in support of both albums, with tour dates to be announced soon.

Cherry Poppin’ Daddies can be found online at: www.daddies.com or www.myspace.com/cherrypoppindaddies.