Irish politics discussion thread

i will keep this in mind. hope willie doesn't get there first.

now, if only someone could take enda aside and teach him to read as well as he writes, he'd actually stand a chance:

The following is the full statement by Fine Gael Leader, Enda Kenny TD on the resignation of Minister for Defence, Willie O’Dea

“Resigning his position in Cabinet must have been very difficult for Willie O’Dea and a very trying event for his family. However, Willie O'Dea's resignation was an inevitable consequence of his swearing of a false affidavit before the High Court.

“The refusal of the Taoiseach and his colleagues in government to demand any accountability for this behaviour was the reason that I tabled a motion of no confidence in Deputy O'Dea on Tuesday night.

“Now that he has bowed to the inevitable, he leaves behind a cabinet whose credibility is in tatters. Despite knowing the full facts, the Taoiseach and his Fianna Fail and Green ministers queued up just yesterday to vehemently support Deputy O'Dea, to assert that he had done nothing wrong other than a simple human mistake, and to vote complete confidence in him.

“This debacle raises fundamental questions about the Taoiseach's willingness to enforce proper standards of behaviour in his Government. Despite knowing the facts of this situation since December, Brian Cowen apparently didn't even ask for an explanation until the issue became the subject of a newspaper editorial earlier this week. The tenor of his subsequent defence of Willie O'Dea, during which the Taoiseach said that Deputy O'Dea had met his standard, casts serious doubt about this Taoiseach's understanding of the type of conduct that should be required of cabinet ministers. His handling of this crisis leaves a huge question mark over his judgement and credibility as Taoiseach.

“This affair also leaves the government in disarray. The main partner has confirmed that the Fianna Fail code of ethics has been safely passed on to this generation of the party.

“The junior partners, the Greens, have been emphatically and decisively humiliated and have confirmed their role as Fianna Fail's mudguard.

“Finally, the third leg of this shaky stool, the remnants of the PDs, have confirmed that any sense of values that existed when that party was founded have been well and truly abandoned in favour of retaining power at any cost.”

what a fascinating country you live in!

i have no indication as to whether that's sarcasm or not max.

i have spent like 20 minutes reading about ff and fg and i still cant figure out what the difference is between them on any issue except europe

you have grasped it fully imo

the difference between them- ff are in power constantly, and fg aren't.

exciting!

i have no indication as to whether that's sarcasm or not max.

but i suspect that it is- the only answer i have is that they're the only politicians we've got, for the time being.

no i mean it! i think!

i have gravely erred in fact in what i told you- the big difference between FF and FG is that FF are against the treaty and FG, while admitting it's imperfections, think it is a document that can be used to pave the way to full independence in time.

that's a fairly big difference, in fairness.

the treaty here is not some EU treaty, but a treaty signed 90 years ago between Britain and Ireland.

its ok, as far as i can tell were still fighting about slavery in the US

loooool

Jesus there goes Trevor Sargeant now and all

huh

Too little too late, mister market gardening enthusiast.

FF know the game, the Greens don't even know they're in it.

yeah, although FF do seem to be playing the game of breaking up their own government. Well done FF.

the game is played on different levels- the first level is cut a fucker's throat when he crosses you. Govt stability is level 2 or further (after personal gain). Running the country in a proper manner is level 72.

yeah, although FF do seem to be playing the game of breaking up their own government. Well done FF.

They might be breaking up this government, but maybe they're doing it on purpose. They've run the PDs into the ground, they're running the Greens into the ground, and it's unlikely that FG and Labour could form a government on their own without other small parties. So maybe they're just playing a medium-term game, ensuring that the next election sees them form a government on their own. Maybe.

another thought- it's not like there's a level of msiconduct that's unbecoming a Minister of State yet is fine for an elected TD.

Where is the pressure on these pricks to quit their posts, not just their perks?

Also I think trishyb could be OTM- FF are fucked, they know they're fucked, and in the circumstances damage to the Greens could be motivated by more than mere spite. Still think it was a reaction to O'Dea first and foremost, and if Lab/FG play their cards half right they'll crush the next election.

I reckon next time round FG and Labour will easily form a government on their own. FF are pissing on their chips in the long run, as they are making it very clear that anyone who goes into government with them will just be fucked over. As they will never be able to win a majority alone, they are perhaps looking at a long spell on the opposition benches.

Where is the pressure on these pricks to quit their posts, not just their perks?

at the next election the electorate get to decide whether these guys have committed an offence that makes them unworthy of sitting in parliament.

you have remarkable faith in 'the long run' being a feature in irish politics, particularly in relation to:

they are making it very clear that anyone who goes into government with them will just be fucked over

which has always bneen pretty clear, non?

and

the electorate get to decide

man oh man fuck the electorate. we need a new electorate.

electorate is old ppl

are you saying that they will die soon and then we will have a new one?

at the next election the electorate get to decide whether these guys have committed an offence that makes them unworthy of sitting in parliament.

Kind of. I mean, they can either vote for these people or vote for someone they completely disagree with, conduct or not.

yeah the hope that there will be a huge influx of new candidates, or even a small inlux of new candidates with a reasonable chance of success, is unrealistic.

which has always bneen pretty clear, non?

it's a lesson that does not always seem to have sunk in. Apparently significant numbers of people in Labour are talking about "keeping their options open", which basically means going into govt with FF.

in fairness to people who go into government with FF, the PDs did well in two elections where they were FF's coalition pals.

Apparently significant numbers of people in Labour are talking about "keeping their options open",

here's an option, Labour- get FF out, and start earning your fucking money.

jesus christ can you imagine if they start getting cute about the coalition now.

Did they? I thought the number of TDs they managed to return diminished with each election. I can't remember though, and that might just have been a function of them being essentially crap and unsustainable as a party anyway.

FF are pissing on their chips in the long run, as they are making it very clear that anyone who goes into government with them will just be fucked over.

Clear to who (whom?) though? If anyone in Labour is honestly thinking about going into coalition with FF, then the lesson is clearly still far from being learned.

Oh sorry, the "did they?" refers to the PDs doing well in elections while they were FF partners.

Labour can't go with FF, now that I've taken a few deep breaths. Not only on the historical evidence of the long-term damage it does to smaller parties, but also because there's a genuine groundswell of support for Labour's politics and policies (well, as I assume those to be anyway) that will not come around again in a generation, and they would kick that into touch in an instant were they even to be suspected of considering an FF coalition.

RIP BIG MAN

Oh sorry, the "did they?" refers to the PDs doing well in elections while they were FF partners.

for a while, the PDs did better in elections when they were in government (with FF) than when they were in opposition. Maybe they had more to show for their supporters. Or something.

However, the PDs also had a tendency to do very badly in elections every so often, so it maybe was only a matter of time before they did so badly they got wiped out. It might be reading too much into it to say they were wiped out because they were in coalition with FF - they were just bound to get a very bad result sooner or later.

PD's political ideology is always going to be cyclically popular or otherwise to a much larger extent than FF, FG. Same with Lab, to be fair, but probably not to the saem extent.

Govt with FF (particularly Justice/Health ministerial posts, how can you win votes on those issues?) was just the killer blow, maybe.

NAMA seems to have been completely ignored on this thread. anybody else think its a terrible idea? there are plenty of alternatives to this crap shoot.

I'm not normally (hell maybe I am) one to just go along with barroom solicitors' opinion, but NAMA really is just a bailout for developers and banks, to the detriment of everybody else. I've not seen the proposals for dealing with the empty properties across the country, but if the social housing lists aren't decimated then NAMA will have been a complete whitewash.

cullen admitted to hospital now. jeez i'd say minister's health/life/income protection insurance is going through the roof.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hFNcC7dde6DREm6fdWhjfr3cqCDwD9EGNS980

Now there's a surprise, whodathoughit?

Never mind that

so, have i got this right-

monday morning- director of anglo irish bank arrested, questioned

tuesday- anglo irish admit that pay rises are going ahead in a bank that's effectively in receivership to the government

wednesday- another director of anglo irish bank arrested, questioned

i mean.

tbh i only think this is all funny now

tbh it's funny now.

tbh it's not going to be when the crash comes, and we get to look back on this last decade like americans in the 1930-40's looked on wall street in the 1920's