i feel it's only fair as a patented annoying vinyl fan to give a great big shout-out to all the people who made AMAZING sounding CDs that I heard last year. digital rules! seriously, i heard so much great electronic and electro-acoustic music on cd last year. there are people who really know what they are doing when they make music for CD. the problem is a lot of them are making music that not a lot of people hear.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 17 February 2010 03:23 (fourteen years ago) link
Dynamic range day is on my 'stag do'.
http://productionadvice.co.uk/dynamic-range-day/
― No, YOU'RE a disgusting savage (Scik Mouthy), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 15:02 (fourteen years ago) link
<3 the "fancy" crescendo
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 15:31 (fourteen years ago) link
I like the way the Phoenix record sounds
― Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ (dyao), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 15:36 (fourteen years ago) link
i still don't think this is a widespread thing at all tbh - i mean if you only listen to radio hits or songs built for radio play, maybe, but who does that? sometimes you want beyoncé, sometimes you want maxwell.
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 15:41 (fourteen years ago) link
No, it's widespread.
Not all records are necessarily totally brickwalled and clipped to unlistenability, but the vast, vast majority are considerably louder than they need to be, with flatter dynamics. it's a very subtle thing but it does make a difference.
The Phoenix record does sound really good, but it could be quieter and more dynamic and I think that would make it sound even better.
If you use something like Scott walker's The Drift, or Kate Bush's Aerial, as a sonic benchmark, pretty much everything else sounds louder and less detailed than them, and there's no reason for it. Even radio-focused stuff like Beyonce doesn't need to be louder than Kate Bush; radio stations run everything through massive compression anyway.
I know I'm banging head against brick wall here.
― No, YOU'RE a disgusting savage (Scik Mouthy), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 15:47 (fourteen years ago) link
nick as far as i know you don't listen to the artists i'm referring to anyway - how would you know whether erykah badu, maxwell, sade or any of the techno/dubstep/funky/bobbins i listen to are over-compressed?!
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 15:56 (fourteen years ago) link
and yeah how would i know whether phoenix or whoever are over-compressed but i don't really give a shit about them so
Well I may not have listened to the latest badu, maxwell, or sade records, but I do listen to quite a bit of techno and have been known to dabble in dubstep a little; plus you said "this isn't widespread" not "badu, maxwell, and sade aren't overcompressed" so I assumed you were talking about a wider range of artists than that!
― No, YOU'RE a disgusting savage (Scik Mouthy), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 16:07 (fourteen years ago) link
That waveform for the The-Dream track does look absolutely fine though.
― No, YOU'RE a disgusting savage (Scik Mouthy), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 16:08 (fourteen years ago) link
well, do you think the techno/dubstep you listen to is overcompressed? b/c in the main, i don't, or at least i don't hear it in those genres, in the slightest, the way i do in eg an alexandra burke radio hit.
i basically mean "a large proportion of all the artists i listen to" and just gave those three as particularly well-known examples in lieu of actually going through my last.fm profile and listing everyone whose music i think doesn't sound overcompressed.
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 16:10 (fourteen years ago) link
the more generally electronic (inc. rock guitar) the music/genre sonically the more likely it is to be overcompressed perhaps. i'd be surprised if hard dance music played in clubs was not also affected by this. more organic/trad productions are less likely to be affected.
― mdskltr (blueski), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 16:13 (fourteen years ago) link
I think a lot of electronic music that I've listened to since 2001, say, of all different stripes, from Burial to The Field to Nathan Fake (especially him) to Vitalic to The Knife to Lindstrom to Four Tet, even (many of these I absolutely adore) are all louder and less dynamic than they need to be, in pure absolutest terms. Some of the time this doesn't bother me that much (The Field), some times it means I get rid of records cos I can't stand them (Nathan Fake). I think the new Knife album is WAY better than Silent Shout, for instance (Fever ray is also way better than Silent Shout, though still a little too loud ion absolutist terms).
Tell you what isn't, though, and what I wish a lot of other electronic records sounded like in terms of mastering levels; the DJ Sprinkles album. Fucking amazing sounding record.
― No, YOU'RE a disgusting savage (Scik Mouthy), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 16:15 (fourteen years ago) link
It's not that The Field is ruined by being overcompressed, for instance; just that I think it could be a LOT better.
― No, YOU'RE a disgusting savage (Scik Mouthy), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 16:19 (fourteen years ago) link
the dj sprinkles record sounds really nice but i'm not hearing the "fucking amazing wow wow wow" compared with any other given deep house (either in terms of quality or sound tbh)
the knife's monochrome flatness is a kinda integral part of their aesthetic surely? can't imagine anything about their music isn't a deliberate decision.
listening to the field is like being smothered in cotton wool but i ascribe this to his limited sonic palette and apparent ignorance of this thing called bass.
everything i've heard by lindstrøm has been a+ and spot on when it comes to production.
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 16:20 (fourteen years ago) link
I think the new Knife album is WAY better than Silent Shout, for instance (Fever ray is also way better than Silent Shout, though still a little too loud ion absolutist terms)
do you just mean from a loudness/compression pov? because the only reason i can think why they may have toned that down since Silent Shout is because they're less dance-orientated (which is interesting). haven't actually heard "Tomorrow, In A Year" yet tho
― mdskltr (blueski), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 16:21 (fourteen years ago) link
Lindstrom IS A+ spot-on with production, I don't dispute that, but mastering is a DIFFERENT thing, which is what I think a lot of people don't get.
Steve; yeah, pretty much just from a loudness/compression POV, but some of it might be down to aesthetic production choices. I dislike a lot of the drum sounds on SS for instance, yet on TIAY they're AMAZING; the reason they're not as nice (to me) on SS could be either mixing / production compression or mastering, it's difficult to tell. I just know I don't like it.
― No, YOU'RE a disgusting savage (Scik Mouthy), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 16:40 (fourteen years ago) link
I think the loudest, most compressed records I have on my MP3 player are Justice - (Cross) and Times New Viking - Present the Paisley Reich. In both cases, it seems like a deliberate choice and I guess it suits the type of music. Usually jazz and vocals records have better dynamic range than rock/electronic/pop, in my experience.
― o. nate, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 17:03 (fourteen years ago) link
I listened to Vapor Trails the other day and really noticed how disastrous the level of compression was. The guitars become a little less distinct every time the bass becomes more prominent etc.
― Sundar, Saturday, 1 May 2010 22:17 (fourteen years ago) link
DYNAMIC RANGE COMPRESSION IS MUSIC PRODUCTION'S EQUIVALENT OF CAPS LOCK!!!!!!!
― Hongroe (Geir Hongro), Monday, 9 May 2011 11:21 (twelve years ago) link
fuck this shit,
― jumpskins, Monday, 9 May 2011 14:32 (twelve years ago) link
good read
http://www.sfxmachine.com/docs/loudnesswar/loudness_war.pdf
― Crackle Box, Thursday, 7 July 2011 20:08 (twelve years ago) link
"Lindstrom IS A+ spot-on with production, I don't dispute that, but mastering is a DIFFERENT thing, which is what I think a lot of people don't get."
yeah yeah but ime it isn't mastering engineers who are responsible for making everything louder, it's the artists/producers compressing the shit out of everything because in isolation it sounds great.
also, a lot of people don't "get" mastering because mastering isn't really a thing
― Crackle Box, Friday, 8 July 2011 09:59 (twelve years ago) link
you get quoted in that link above nick
― Crackle Box, Friday, 8 July 2011 10:00 (twelve years ago) link
Nick/Scik Mouthy of this very parish on dynamic range compression in 2011.
― Death To False Camp (Doran), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 13:24 (twelve years ago) link
Just came here to do that myself...
― Sick Mouthy (Scik Mouthy), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 13:27 (twelve years ago) link
from apple: "Any boosts in playback volume are designed to be protected against clipping by iTunes' build-in limiter."
If only there had been a clear definition of who got to do the limiting at the very beginning between Mastering Engineers, radio stations and the system you're currently using.
My ears are fatigued.
― owenf, Wednesday, 31 August 2011 13:55 (twelve years ago) link
thought that the Kanye album was an accidentally shipped set of demos or something. Gash. Can't listen to the thing.
― owenf, Wednesday, 31 August 2011 13:58 (twelve years ago) link
I am getting the impression with the music I like best that this was worse a few years ago than it is today. A lot of American indie acts (and probably also hip-hop/R&B although that is not really my cup of tea) need to cut down the compression and volume considerably though.
The Beatles remasters were just perfect. Far from clipping or anything, but at the same time (unlike a lot of 80s/early 90s masters) loud enough not to sound tame on modern phones, iPods or portable CD players.
― Hongroe (Geir Hongro), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 14:20 (twelve years ago) link
Hey nick thanks for writing about this stuff, its really important.
I'm glad you brought up games in the end. Working in that industry I think its ludicrous how music is the only industry that'd turned its back on fidelity
― velvet underground - reloaded (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 31 August 2011 19:50 (twelve years ago) link
I'm no tech head but I think this article at RA may be a nice supplement - use of VU meters, also (especially!?) to monitor digital recordings.
― willem, Wednesday, 12 October 2011 07:43 (twelve years ago) link
ctrl f - bob katz 'mastering audio'
― Crackle Box, Wednesday, 12 October 2011 12:22 (twelve years ago) link
Not sure if this has ever been linked to, but it's also a good read:
http://www.chicagomasteringservice.com/loudness.html
(Chicago Mastering Service is co-owned by Bob Weston from Shellac)
― nate woolls, Wednesday, 12 October 2011 12:30 (twelve years ago) link
How long will it take for people's computer hardware (including smartphones) to be of such a quality that Spotify may become all lossless? It would be a very important change because it would mean the kids would get used to more dynamic sound again.
― Hongroe (Geir Hongro), Wednesday, 12 October 2011 14:09 (twelve years ago) link
YOU'RE STILL DERANGED
― Sick Mouthy (Scik Mouthy), Wednesday, 12 October 2011 15:08 (twelve years ago) link
yeah, you can losslessly hear how the recordings sound like ass soup.
― corey, Wednesday, 12 October 2011 15:19 (twelve years ago) link
i always forget that this is a thing that's meant to exist until these threads are bumped
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 12 October 2011 15:26 (twelve years ago) link
have never noticed it while actually listening to music
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 12 October 2011 15:27 (twelve years ago) link
How does lossless/lossy encoding make sound more or less dynamic?
― The Eyeball Of Hull (Colonel Poo), Wednesday, 12 October 2011 15:42 (twelve years ago) link
it doesn't
― hardcore oatmeal (Jordan), Wednesday, 12 October 2011 15:55 (twelve years ago) link
You mean Geir might be wrong sometimes?
― Chewshabadoo, Wednesday, 12 October 2011 16:15 (twelve years ago) link
What's your usual listening setup lex?
― Crackle Box, Wednesday, 12 October 2011 19:54 (twelve years ago) link
tbh given what lex listens to, it's probably the audio equivalent of those fish that live at the bottom of the sea and can thrive under thousands of pounds of pressure
― the 500 gats of bartholomew thuggins (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 12 October 2011 20:20 (twelve years ago) link
― lex pretend, Wednesday, October 12, 2011 10:27 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
wake up sheeple.shit is hella obvious
― The boyboy young jess (D-40), Wednesday, 12 October 2011 20:33 (twelve years ago) link
what is the singular of sheeple?
― congratulations (n/a), Wednesday, 12 October 2011 20:49 (twelve years ago) link
sheeperson?
what, ewe don't know?
― wrestlingisreal420 (crüt), Wednesday, 12 October 2011 20:51 (twelve years ago) link
The more compressed, the less difference between the loudest and most silent parts. Because the most silent parts become less silent. Extensive use of dynamic range compression is just like USING CAPS LOCK ALL THE TIME.
― Hongroe (Geir Hongro), Thursday, 13 October 2011 00:06 (twelve years ago) link
data compression is not the same as audio compression
― ballarat organ quartet (electricsound), Thursday, 13 October 2011 00:08 (twelve years ago) link
It has much of the same effect on the audio. Today's recordings are being compressed because the kids are used to hearing badly compressed mp3s and expect music to sound that way.
― Hongroe (Geir Hongro), Thursday, 13 October 2011 01:20 (twelve years ago) link