the Shiina Ringo thread

I'm losing the faith rapidly.

ok i'll unbookmark this until i get a chance to listen

Sorry. I'm really getting bored with their sound, tired of indulging certain (uninteresting) quirks, etc.

There's some beautiful playing here and there, but I generally don't like the overall songs frameworks in which it occurs.

well as per usual with her stuff I'm totally confused to find myself listening to this kind of music but I like it

The band's songwriting is way too inferior to Shiina Ringo's songwriting (once upon a time anyway). I feel like I'm getting more of a handle on their sound, and it's becoming less interesting in the process. I almost think there were better songs on Variety but they just needed production and realization closer to what you get on this album. (Although I realize I am falling into the familiar western-fan pattern of: "Even the last one was better than this one. . .")

All of the interview talk about taking risks (my possibly over-optimistic paraphrase) on this new album and giving one another challenges and so on, seems like a lot of mumbo-jumbo.

Back to Sakir Oner Gunhan for me.

well when Shiina stopped writing music on the last album, they got away with all the multiple authors by making the album concept 'Variety'. but this time the concept & production is gunning for something seemingly more coherent and it only underlines that these are just a bunch of tunes. no problem with settling for being a simple & classy artesian J-pop band (if I were into more of the songs)

'3 Minutes' is amazing though, if you haven't played that on good speakers yet, get ready

at least now that it's 2010 it's easier to start safely saying that 'Karuki Zamen Kuri no Hana' was without question the most amazing pop album of the last decade, right?

& not to dismiss this new album outright which I have only heard three times in less than 24 hours, '3 Minutes' needed two weeks to grow on me

I'm not even going to buy a copy of this after all, I really think it's that lame. "3 min" is pretty good though.

I do agree about KZK, although considering how little actual current pop I listen to, how much does my opinion matter?

Do you think Tokyo Jihen will keep on going after this? I am kind of hoping they break up, but I think this will do well commercially.

The funny thing is, I was thinking of finally starting a dedicated Tokyo Jihen thread, but now I have lost all motivation.

Hi guys.

I kind of forgot this album was even on its way so my expectations may have been a bit modest. As such, it sounded good this morning but sort of serialized; another album from a band I admire a lot w/ some surprises, good & bad, but def. settled in a familiar groove. Try as I might to find a counter-angle to the consensus story (i.e. heart will never fully dislodge from early S. Ringo solo career - every album, a paradigm shift - etc.) I really am pleased w/ them in a more complacent sort of way. Just rolling along to some neat UFO FX & hooks, some crafty J-pop... like, it may be my dwindling investment, but if you put Shiina's last one & the four Jihen albums on shuffle, I doubt I'd feel too strongly about where the peaks & valleys were. Dynamic but static (Rudipherous OTM re:quirks, though I can't put them down), whereas a sharp volte-face could smack things into perspective a bit.

Has anyone made the obvious comparison between the intro. to Ikiru and Mr. Bungle's California (or one or two of the songs on that)? It's been a while since I've heard California though so I could be hearing a stronger similarity than actually exists.

I'm probably being too harsh about this album, and it probably does have to do with my own hopes and expectations. Overall, it probably is better than Variety. The songs where they are going for drive actually have a lot of drive (whereas somehow on Variety, they didn't have enough drive.) I still think it's all a bit unexciting. And then you hit this "No one knows how I live my life" crap and Shiina's tired growl. Who wrote this one? No more, please.

I'm probably being too harsh about this album

Nah, not by much. (Okay, sorry, I'll stay away from this thread unless I have something new to say.)

at least now that it's 2010 it's easier to start safely saying that 'Karuki Zamen Kuri no Hana' was without question the most amazing pop album of the last decade, right?

saying that, i wonder if it will be another decade before anyone else actually realises this

I'm listening to Muzai Moratorium at the moment, something I haven't heard for a while, and what a contrast between this incredible album and the last four SR (counting HF) and TJ albums.

And it's not that I think she should be doing stuff now that sounds exactly like this. I just wish she were doing things that sound as good as this.

Incidentally, you know what to do: ALL-NEW FREEFORM (SORTA) 1990s ALBUMS POLL: THE BANNS

Adult is such a great album. I'm not exactly feeling the need to convince anyone, just the need to say it.

Bring back the Shiina Ringo dictatorship!

In case you missed it: http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/mar/25/japanese-pop-women

Having listened to Sports a few times now, I'm definitely in the contented camp - agree with Milton and xcixxorx. It's true that she and TJ seem to have basically settled on the same songwriting/production quirks, and this album is closer to jpop/anime OP standard than any of her recent work. I don't really have a big problem with this, tbh! If she keeps making music of this quality for the rest of her career, I can't really complain, it's still very enjoyable.

Maybe I'm just an optimist, but there isn't a single record in the SR/TJ discography I didn't eventually like, if not love outright. So much of it is stone cold motherfuckin' classic, even if she retired now she's given plenty to the world. But considering she's only 31 years old, I'm not too concerned about it - she's got a lot of songwriting ahead.

i think you're otm there; i'm totally happy with her settling into this groove (for the time being) but considering how much adventurousness she packed into the last 10+ years i am fully confident that she will be kicking open the trap door of my mind for years to come

it's also worth mentioning as it's barely come up on this thread, or in the english-speaking fan forums -- her last four releases slow turn towards formal j-pop that has so pissed off her english fan base have all been #1's in Japan and have pretty much reconsolidated her position as one of the most important pop figures in the history of j-pop. After the first two Jihen albums she was increasingly getting seen & covered as a fringe / cult figure who'd had one huge breakthrough album followed by a bunch of strangeness, so between Jihen delivering #1 hits and Ringo doing huge stadium tours of her hugest songs, the last four years has basically established her a mainstream career for life in Japan

some western fans want to read that as selling out or turning against her authentically weird roots but it seems like a long term move. the last four albums are way closer to j-pop than I ever would have gotten into cold, but yeah she took me with her, each of them have had at least 3 or 4 utterly addictive songs I can't stop playing so not only does it feel shallow to complain about her direction, it feels like missing the point.

that being said, picked up the CD for 'Sports', and for me those four songs are the opening track, '3 Minutes', 'Zettai Zetsumei', and the big closer. on the whole the album's more about the production than the songwriting, I missed most of the details with the mp3's -- Kameda's bassline on '3 Minutes', and the way the disco kicks in full tilt on 'Zettai Zetsumei', so satisfying

also, weirdly -- album version of the opening track 'Ikuru' tacks on a minute long instrumental coda that wasn't on the leaked mp3's, and it tracks directly into the opening of track #2. It's really over the top Vegas vamping, though -- not sure it's an improvement, but it's a major difference

This TJ Special on Music Japan has helped bring me around to Sports, it's worth a look.

http://sadisticgossip.blogspot.com/2010/03/tokyo-jihen-20100228-music-japan.html

longer Ikiru? Goddamnit.

(as in now I have to go hunt this down)

Also, is there a good source for the sales numbers of those albums? Only thing I saw was Wikipedia which said all four TJ albums made it to #1 or 2 on both Soundscan and Oricon, but I'd rather see more exact numbers. I'm just generally aware that her first few solo albums were million-sellers and pretty much everything TJ and after sold far less.

hard to gauge since everything's selling less -- these days you can hit #1 there with 150-200,000 apparently? I don't know of a compiled list, I just remember the posts to EM in the weeks after each album & the discussions from the posters who lived in Japan discussing the campaigns / media reception to each album

& as for hunting down the CD, actually I'd say it's the opposite, people who have the CD should track down the mp3's.

also, most modest & underthought CD packaging for a Jihen album -ever-. one halfway funny picture of them in track suits, another one of them with their backs to the camera, even the font for the lyrics is kind of plain looking. usually the booklets / first-presses are worth $30 to me, but not this time around

except who am I kidding, like I'm going to stop buying them now. I should seperately insure the 'sh' section of my CD shelving rack

each of them have had at least 3 or 4 utterly addictive songs I can't stop playing so not only does it feel shallow to complain about her direction, it feels like missing the point.

How is it "shallow" to complain about her current direction?! Just because the past few albums have had three or four really good songs that hook you in? I don't get that. I agree that there have still been some really good songs on recent albums, but I expect more from SR. I don't want an album with three or four strong songs mixed with "Sweet Spot" and a bunch of other mediocrity.

As far as this phase of her career re-consolidating her position in j-pop, that's interesting, but it doesn't particularly matter to me (although I guess it could indirectly be a positive if it allows her to eventually put out better material or just keep on putting out a cluster of good tracks here and there).

Just because she's Japanese doesn't mean we all have to be completely loyal to the corporation forever.

It's worth noting that J-pop on the whole was also probably more interesting during the days of her early solo career. At the time I could even think of her as part of a field where other similarly accomplished (i.e. fun, slightly alternative) music was being made. Then it made less sense to think of her that way as she was clearly up to something else.

Even though TJ is popular & their sound is growing more accessible, I still can't really think of them as J-pop next to the likes of Koda Kumi or whatever. I sort of get the suspicion that she just really loves pop music (in the general sense) & is more assured & less bothered than before w/ approaching that material head-on. So maybe that comes across as misguided chutzpah w/ straight rock & jazz & r&b whereas before there was possibly some tortured internal art-slant on making tunes.

hey sir -- wasn't actually thinking of your posts as much as how unreadable Electric Mole forum became after Variety came out -- and shallow's not the right word for them either, it was almost shocking the degree to which those kids felt betrayed, they really turned on her, endless bile and outrage. but they're all still at the forum.

one of the main reasons I like her is because of the scale she's always worked on, not just getting to open concerts with an insane chorus of children assembled for just the first 1.5 songs but getting to do it for 20,000 at Budokan. so yeah while I am mildly unnerved by how easily the Vegas stuff comes to her (I skipped the 'Expo 08' DVD), it's not like I can watch those unbelievably magic Budokan clips and then turn my back when the coin flips over

xpost -- yeah me calling them j-pop, that is relative, and good point about how scary their mainstream's gotten in the last 10 years

I didn't think you were necessarily aiming those comments at me, but since I too complain, to some extent, about her direction, I figured I was included. I know what you mean about the level of vitriol on Electric Mole (and I don't hate Variety the way most of those folks do, though I do think it's very weak and problematic), and I don't have the same sense of betrayal, so maybe I don't need to defend myself here after all. (I was actually trying to stay off this thread for this latest round of comments, but the "superficial" thing got to me.)

(I know what you mean about the level of vitriol on Electric Mole

Not to mention the adolescent "Uki is gay" type comments from certain posters.)

I only visited the Electric Mole forums once, in lieu of Sanmon Gossip's release. As a young Smashing Pumpkins-head who frequented related message boards, resplendent with polls and disputes, which were all heat and nothing, I found a great deal of comparable matter in Electric Mole, particularly the restless and antithetical attitude of the betrayed, how they engage and immediately make necessary distance, and how they stand in rabid opposition to the remaining factions of unreasoned fandom.

Okay so it was like every fan message board ever. But regardless of how it resembles the whole, it is a bad scene.

Meanwhile, everytime I hear "OSCA" or "Killer Tune" (I sometimes am blinded by how much the song lives up to its title), I remember Variety in warm and glowing tones which don't actually exist. It's really a record that exhausts you with all its nothing by the halfway point. But those singles!

Man, sometimes Kameda's bass playing just jumps out at me, and it's happening as I listen once again to Adult. Not anything to add, but I don't normally tend to flip out that much over bass players.

Sports is not terrible, just very...light and I wish it was less poppy. It seems set to me that she's definitely changed direction now with the band set-up. I wouldn't be surprised to see one more solo album from her, at least before she officially retires. Or maybe not, because she already 'officially' retired. Considering how random she is, I wonder where she will be in ten years' time, if Tokyo Jihen will still be around then

Allaboutjazz likes teh Pe'z"

http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=36320

I think I'd be happy if Sports were just differently poppy. If anything, it seems too muso/prog/fusion-y for me, though I liked precisely those things as they were put together on Adult, so I don't know.

I guess there really should be a Tokyo Jihen thread. Kind of ridiculous putting Pe'z references under Shiina Ringo. (Kind of, but then again I would not have heard of the band otherwise, most likely.)

It was originally a Shiina Ringo fan's claims that Janelle Monae was the closest thing to an American Shiina Ringo that initially got me to listen to the Metropolis EP. I wasn't really into it, and didn't quite see the connection. Now that the ArchAndroid is out, I see much more similarity. (I do think Janelle Monae is far more reliable as a vocalist.) This seems like the sort of album Shiina Ringo wants to be making now, or should be making. To get really specific, "Faster and Faster" sounds like a song Tokyo Jihen wanted to write for their latest album. And as someone on Electric Mole pointed out, it even has a sound in the bridge that is very close to the beginning of "Noudouteki Sanpunkan."

Not that Tokyo Jihen could do anything as funky as the funkier songs here, but that's not really the comparison I'm making anyway. (Kameda could probably hold his own in a funk/R&B context, competing with African-American musicians working in that music. Not sure about the rest.)

Funny you should mention that, I was thinking similar things - waiting for Metropolis from my local library.