OK, is this the worst piece of music writing ever?

the 'excuse' is that everyone here probably wrote stuff as bad as that at his age.

this guy wot wrote this rag rant retty much speaks for at least 2/3 of the record buying public in the UK right now (Rihanna at #1 not withstanding) so you can be aghast all you like but don't be surprised at all. it just seems ridiculous to single one person out in this way - if you are to do this pick a paid pro who has more cause to know better...perhaps in a situation where they can defend their position or learn from what you say (so not on ILM then i guess).

we could make a lot of the same points if the thread wasn't focussed on one person's deluded rant but the nature/future of student press generally and that might be better (but probably useless without actual input from student writers).

Have we all forgotten that university age isn't really especially young?

yes clearly I have forgotten this

but seriously his age isn't the point here.

stevem basically otm

re: Domino indie?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domino_Records

Pretty much, I guess. (Depends on what definition of independent you use. They might still have distribution deals with non-independent labels, for instance.)

Making fun of Westlife is more cliche than "sounds like (insert band name) on acid". If you're going to provide an example, at least have an ounce of originality and pick a band where a comparison to Green Day or Nirvana is in the general vicinity of apt.

why even mention any of those 90S BANDS with so much other stuff going on?

"look at the rubbish typography on this PIZZA FLYER!!!!!!11 rofllz"

http://www.inkycircus.com/jargon/images/lightbulb.jpg

the 'excuse' is that everyone here probably wrote stuff as bad as that at his age

actually as bad? Besides, I'm much more interested in looking at student press in general than pillorying this one poor sap too; I would have no interest in picking apart the blog of a 20-year-old who wrote like a 15-year-old, but I'm just kinda bewildered that this kind of thing could under any circumstance be good enough to be from someone in the role of music editor.

although as PIZZA FLYER has reminded me, I recently saw a poster for a student newspaper which had about ten spelling mistakes on it, so yes, I should stop expecting any kind of standards from them.

Person who has role as student music editor = someone who wanted to write about music, who might not necessarily have tastes outside the mainstream, who might not even be that well-educated about music. Just someone who has a passion for the music they listen to. It would be one thing if music editor were a highly competitive position in the student paper but most likely the kids who are really "into" music are off doing other more specifically music-related things with their spare time.

like joining a radio station and doing actual, meaningful reviews for distribution companies :-D

curtis, stop calling him kid. if he was 8 when cobain offed himself, that means he's older than you.

I know that John, I wasn't calling him "kid" as a term of derision, I call myself "kid" :/

maybe Britishers do things differently

I mean I'm not trying to patronize/insult the guy's intelligence here and say "oh he's just too young!" That's not the point. This thread is set up to pit his article against the broader tradition of "music writing" which I don't think is appropriate for an article someone wrote for a student paper. Though I may be biased in my perceptions because I go to an engineering school where the student paper isn't a reflection of the skills and career goals of the students.

yeah sorry curtis, i'm just seeing the usual uber-geek shit-slinging on display here and getting all defensive. it is an awful fucking article, though.

xpost noodle, aren't you a swans fan?

doing actual, meaningful reviews for distribution companies :-D

Congratulations! (NOW I understand why there's a "sounds like Mansun: 3.5/5" score next to every album)

I'm going to start scanning album spiels at our radio station for Jaggerisms

i don't think the point is how old the dude is - as a student, if i'd read something of that standard/expressing those opinions, i'd have gathered everyone i knew to point and laugh. i like to think i wouldn't have allowed it in the mag when i was editor, but i probably let worse through - so few good writers in uni also willing to hand copy in on time. at his age i was better than this, but not especially good.

the point is that it's really weird and mean-spirited and not a little pathetic for 20-something professionals southall/passantino/scott to spend their days ripping an article in a STUDENT RAG (and a REALLY MINOR ONE at that) to shreds - i mean, what will it be next, a-level essays? i'm especially disappointed in nick, who i'd thought was above this sort of pointlessness.

also, i think writing for the student paper DID actually make me a better writer.

i'm curious how seriously the students themselves take this sort of writing in these papers. surely it can't be seen as that representative, even if they are official papers.

Lex, we must have a good point in ripping the article though, or else you wouldn't have made so many posts to this thread.

about 4? you don't have any point beyond LOL STUDENTZ, though.

Eight.

Wikipedia says...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d0/OpenDaySpecial.jpg

Another lovely looking campus (an especially nice line in daffodils in the spring), with the occasional dreadful looking building thrown in to stop you getting too cocky - one of them looks like it could be used to breed giraffes in.

In 1997, a new Exeposé logo was designed based on the Carlsberg logo (as shown in the gallery below) and from 1997-2000 the paper proclaimed itself to be 'Probably the Best Student Newspaper in the World'.

Quality of school in not equal to quality of individual shocker!

Most of the best music writers I know went to shitty state schools. Many of them didn't even go to college. When I was in college, I remember reading music articles on UWire that destroyed the community-college-level music writing that I saw coming out of the Ivy Leagues.

lex i have made like 5 posts on this thread and they were on the whole vaguely whimsical points about student papers in general and a couple of crap injokes. i agreed with you that the "attack and dismiss" approach is stupid. i'm not sure why you are attacking me.

This is the BEST piece of music writing ever. Every word is sooooo correct and soooo spot-on.

fake geir

wait never mind I reread the article, possibly not fake geir

its not that his points are necessarily wrong, its just that everything he uses to "prove" his point is stupid

multixpost

Hi John yes I'm a Swans fan, why d'ya ask?

My student newspaper In Utero review and my interview with These Animal Men were way better than this article, oh yes, honest.

Person who has role as student music editor = someone who wanted to write about music, who might not necessarily have tastes outside the mainstream, who might not even be that well-educated about music. Just someone who has a passion for the music they listen to. It would be one thing if music editor were a highly competitive position in the student paper but most likely the kids who are really "into" music are off doing other more specifically music-related things with their spare time.

This is totally OTM. The guy might be putting a load of ideas forward that are completely ass-backwards but he obviously gives a shit about this stuff. I think you do have to sort of be wary of the ILM bubble where the idea of people being really passionate about Feeder or something is the height of absurdity, despite the fact that there are way way more of huge-scare-quotes "them" than of "us".

Another lovely looking campus (an especially nice line in daffodils in the spring), with the occasional dreadful looking building thrown in to stop you getting too cocky - one of them looks like it could be used to breed giraffes in.

Hahaha I had totally forgotten about that! It was k-rub.

I'm pretty sure I read worse music writing by the then Music Editor when I was on Exepose ten years ago. And I'm fairly sure I let worse through when I was editing a different student mag, don't get me started on the Toploader interview I was forced to print.

"So, Toploader, why are you named after an outmoded, inefficient washing machine?"
"We just make music for ourselves, and if anyone else likes it that's a bonus. WESTLIFE SUCK DUDE!"

what is difference between toploader and cornershop

Everything

before i jump in, how is this 175 posts? has the author showed up?

Nah, it just devolved into Sharks vs Jets and some kid got stabbed.

I disagree that student writing is exempt from criticism. One's worldview may not be fully formed by the age of 20, but a journalistic voice should be.

um NO

yeah, some of us would be pretty screwed if that were the case

(zingproofing: YEAH I KNOW i'm screwed anyway)

not just 'some of us' but pretty much all writers one could name. 20 is pretty young! i wrote shitloads when i was a student, some of it was almost as bad as this guy's. it's a shame they have to grow up in public (via the internet) in a way.

Person who has role as student music editor = someone who wanted to write about music, who might not necessarily have tastes outside the mainstream, who might not even be that well-educated about music. Just someone who has a passion for the music they listen to. It would be one thing if music editor were a highly competitive position in the student paper but most likely the kids who are really "into" music are off doing other more specifically music-related things with their spare time.

lol i was that "Person". the mainstream is an illusory category. if your audience is students the mainstream is different than what it is if you're writing for 12-year-olds, or for monied fuck-witted amoral east london twentysomethings.

looking back, ALL positions in the student press were competitive! and the music editor got free cds to hand out, got into gigs for free. i was briefly socially successful at that time. fyi writing about music qualifies as a "specifically music-related thing".

One of the previous music editors at Exepose also worked as a freelance music/gig photographer and promoter in the area; he ran club nights and had exhibitions of his pictures in a local venue, etcetera. My friend Steve (who was doing an MA at the time and writing for the paper - how I got to know the music editor) and I had to convince him that Prince was 'a respectable musician' once, but, you know, he wasn't ignorant, music wasn't a 'passing phase' or something. He was seriously into what he was doing. I'd imagine this guy is too.

Just look at the input on this thread, and ILM / music journalism in general - people who get involved with the music coverage at student papers often end up moving into it as a 'career' (haha @ Alex calling me a 'professional music journalist' - I've earnt a few hundred quid from it at most and never approached a publication with my writing in my life; it's really not my career and I'm not sure how it can be anybody's) in one way or another, whether that's writing or in PR or anything else - for all I know this guy could be doing a business or law degree and end up in the music business that way.

I never got involved in my own student paper music pages because I had an awful first term at university and lost a lot of confidence - I assumed that anybody involved in the paper in any way was going to be a MUCH better writer than I was and that I didn't stand a cat in hell's chance. A few years down the line and yeah, I realise that had I gone for it I'd have been as good as if not better than a lot of othr people, and maybe I'd have been a writer fulltime rather than a library dude with a hobby, but who knows.

I'm not really interested in this guy; I'm certainly not interested in slagging him off (although the idea that he's saying 'major labels are gr8!' and seemingly being courted by them via his band at the same time screams 'conflict of interest'); what I am interested in is the hows and whys of this article; not 'how was it published?' because we've pretty much established that student papers will publish anything (what was the thread a few weeks ago about the NYC student paper and the awful, offensive sexual helath feature), but 'how are these attitudes fostered, why are people thinking this, is this typical, if so, who is it typical of?'

I also think it's quite interesting re; the education system. University's basically a factory that teaches you to absorb and reinterpret data, to analyse and digest and critique and report and synthesise; this guy's a second-going-into-third-year at least, and probably given the average ages of Exeter students and numbers taking years out and so on, 21; why's he not got a more sophisticated approach than 'Westlife bad, Feeder good'? Granted there is an interesting thread in there re; the difficulty of 'writing popular music' and the whole marketing-of-music issue, but if he's doing either arts or business he ought to be more sophisticated in one or both directions.

University's basically a factory that teaches you to absorb and reinterpret data, to analyse and digest and critique and report and synthesise

even if that were true (am unsure), people involved in student journalism are not exactly worker ants! student journalism is what people do instead of going to lectures.

True; given a conversation I had this evening with a mortgage advisor, I think my reasons for going to university were different to most of my contemporaries', and are even more different to people there today.