The Poetry Thread

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A funny thing about The Deregulated Muse is this:

last night I found an old issue of Poetry Review what was designed by Jerry the Nipper, who was also writin' in it. And it also contained reviews of Sean O'Brien's anthology The Firebox, along with the Armitage / Crawford collection, AND Ian Sansom on The Deregulated Muse!

Meanwhile, I read something like 90pp of SO'B's pomes earlier in the day so for once I knew a little of what I was talking about, I mean, reading about.

I am not wholly sold on his... subtlety? intelligence?

But I guess what's thrown me most is the wee sketch of bristling him next to Sansom's review.

Should I blame the Nipper?

the pomefox, Saturday, 10 April 2004 08:04 (twenty years ago) link

It's funny looking at things you have written a long (or even a short) time ago. I am doing that now.

Most of it is real; crap.

Ally C (Ally C), Saturday, 10 April 2004 11:44 (twenty years ago) link

"To the Western World", L. Simpson

[...]

And grave by grave we civilize the ground.

[...]

cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 10 April 2004 11:53 (twenty years ago) link

It is worth saying, here, how good Poetry Review was during the Nipper's tenure. Perhaps I (have?) never appreciated it enough.
That issue with JtN, Sansom (I), Burt on Heaney, et al, really ain't shallow nor weak. I could read a lot more of this stuff.

the spellfox, Saturday, 10 April 2004 12:26 (twenty years ago) link

what are issue numbers, I'll seek them out post-haste!

(is there any nipper writing in them?)

JtN: you were otm re: 'Skid'. my copy arrived this morning; I'm enthralled.

cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 10 April 2004 16:11 (twenty years ago) link

Read THE NIPPER'S REVIEW OF PAUL FARLEY in an issue from c.1998 or, no, 1999?

If the Nipper was in, the country, he could tell us, naturally, or artificially.

I think that JtN provided some of the best moments in the guid magazine, but I am [fill in word: you decide].

the spellfox, Saturday, 10 April 2004 16:58 (twenty years ago) link

References.

Summer 1998, vol 88, #2: JtN on Farley: pp.88-89

Winter 1998, vol 88, #4: JtN on Pessoa: pp.13-14.

The second piece (there) quotes Paterson and Rimbaud, and mentions FO'B and a tad obliquely JJ's tenners.

The first piece (above) mentions the Dandy Warhols, Thomas Pynchon and... Don Paterson.

How long can you hold out?

the pomefox, Saturday, 10 April 2004 17:05 (twenty years ago) link

"If the world of modern male letters is increasingly an area defined by the pub, the record shop and the football terraces, a kind of literary Bermuda triangle where talented writers lose themselves in blokish enthusiasms, then Farley would appear to have all the right credentials."

cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 10 April 2004 18:19 (twenty years ago) link

The Truth of Masks.

cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 10 April 2004 18:22 (twenty years ago) link

Is the Farley one online too?

Odd... premonition of Ewing.

the pinefox, Saturday, 10 April 2004 22:30 (twenty years ago) link

Five words can say only.

(from Bob Perelman's "Chronic Meanings".)

...in bed. (Chris Piuma), Sunday, 11 April 2004 09:03 (twenty years ago) link

Do we think that JtN put that article (of his) on line him self?

the pomefox, Sunday, 11 April 2004 09:54 (twenty years ago) link

It is certainly a possibility. He is the master self-aggrandizer of our time. I'm joking.

I have been re-reading things. Some of it is perhaps not crap.

Ally C (Ally C), Sunday, 11 April 2004 10:31 (twenty years ago) link

Do you mean, your things?

the bellefox, Sunday, 11 April 2004 13:39 (twenty years ago) link

Sometimes.

Ally C (Ally C), Monday, 12 April 2004 09:45 (twenty years ago) link

People! This is for cutting and pasting lines from any poem...

My Little Utopia

Why the high, wrought-iron fence
With sharp spikes
And four padlocks and a chain
Over the heavy gate?

I drop by in late afternoon.
Make sure it's locked,
And peek through the bars
At the rows of sunny flowers.

The tree-lined winding path
Already streaked with shadow
Masking a couple kissing
As they mosey away from me.

Charles Simic

donald, Monday, 12 April 2004 12:12 (twenty years ago) link

13 I win you a ring at the rifle range
14 For the twentieth time, but you've chosen
15 A yellow, implausible fish in a bag
16 That you hold to one side when I kiss you.
17 Sitting in the waiting-room in darkness
18 Beside the empty cast-iron fireplace,
19 In the last of the heat the brick gives off,
20 Not quite convinced there will be no more trains,
21 At the end of a summer that never began
22 Till we lost it

From Sean O'Brien, 'The Park By The Railway'

(this one might be quite good, I think)

the pomefox, Tuesday, 13 April 2004 07:58 (twenty years ago) link

Haha.

Ally C (Ally C), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 11:53 (twenty years ago) link

Where should we meet but in this shabby park
2 Where the railings are missing and the branches black?
3 Industrial pastoral, our circuit
4 Of grass under ash, long-standing water
5 And unimportant sunsets flaring up
6 Above the half-dismantled fair. Our place
7 Of in-betweens, abandoned viaducts
8 And modern flowers, dock and willowherb,
9 Lost mongrels, birdsong scratching at the soot
10 Of the last century. Where should we be
11 But here, my industrial girl? Where else
12 But this city beyond conservation?

It's all good.

the pomefox, Wednesday, 14 April 2004 17:37 (twenty years ago) link

Let's look at the face of tragedy. Let's see it's creases,
its aquiline profile, its masculine jawbone. Let's hear it's thesis,
contralto with its diabolic rises:
the aria of effect beats cause's wheezes.
How are you, tragedy? We haven't seen you lately.
Hello, the medal's flip side gone lazy.
Let's examine your aspect, lady.

the first lines of Portrait of Tragedy - Joseph brodsky

aimurchie (aimurchie), Friday, 16 April 2004 04:24 (twenty years ago) link

Let's put our fingers into her mouth that gnashes
scurvy-eaten keyboards inflamed by wolfram flashes
showing her spit- rich palate with blizzards of kinfolk's ashes
Let's yank her hem, see if she blushes.
Well, tragedy, if you want, surprise us.
Show us a body betrayed or its demise, devices
for lost innocence, inner crisis.

third stanza Portrait of Tragedy - Joseph Brodsky

aimurchie (aimurchie), Friday, 16 April 2004 04:34 (twenty years ago) link

The next rung up from extra and dogsbody
and all the clichés are true – days waiting for
enough light, learning card games, penny-ante,
while fog rolls off the sea, a camera
gets moisture in its gate, and Roman Polanski
curses the day he chose Snowdonia.

He picked you for your hair to play this role:
a look had reached Bootle from Altamont
that year. You wouldn’t say you sold your soul
but learned your line inside a beating tent

(From 'Keith Chegwin as Fleance' - Paul Farley)

Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Friday, 16 April 2004 12:04 (twenty years ago) link

boom. You have to care more. For us the dreamer is
a quincunx of trees in a gale of ink with a grace
as of owls that are not mere birds. For further guidelines
send nine dollars. If you are a churl, do not submit,
but do subscribe. We stay up late, and morning finds us
crusted with homage to fickle dancers whose hair is frizzy.
If you wish your poems returned, check the alley out back.
Know this, know this, we are not just "doing our thing",
we are not just "another eccentric mag". Things have gone
way, way past that. Life whispered "spring" and we sprang.
Do not take us for granted at Whang.

(From 'Whang Editorial Policy' by Mark Halliday. Full text here: http://www.poetrysociety.org.uk/review/pr88-4/halliday.htm)

Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Friday, 16 April 2004 12:07 (twenty years ago) link

[...]
Or the two of us, alone, both seedy,
Me breathing booze at her,
She leaning out of her pot toward the window.
Near the end, she seemed almost to hear me -
And that was scary -
So when that snuffling cretin of a maid
Threw her, pot and all, into the trash-can,
I said nothing.

But I sacked the presumptuous hag the next week,
I was that lonely.

(from 'The Geranium' By Theodore Roethke)

Archel (Archel), Friday, 16 April 2004 13:20 (twenty years ago) link

[...]
Therefore all seasons shall be sweet to thee,
Whether the summer clothe the general earth
With greenness, or the redbreast sit and sing
Betwixt the tufts of snow on the bare branch
Of mossy apple-tree, while the nigh thatch
Smokes in the sun-thaw; whether the eave-drops fall
Heard only in the trances of the blast,
Or if the secret ministry of frost
Shall hang them up in silent icicles,
Quietly shining to the quiet Moon.

(the end of 'Frost At Midnight' by ST Coleridge obv. I have always loved that last line quite unreasonably much.)

Archel (Archel), Friday, 16 April 2004 13:25 (twenty years ago) link

"silent icicles" is great, also.

Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Friday, 16 April 2004 13:47 (twenty years ago) link

Thread back to proper usage?
It's fanciful.

Ally C (Ally C), Friday, 16 April 2004 15:42 (twenty years ago) link

My Life At Home During Banking Hours

For a solid month I tried
to think of something new to say about rivers
I called the newspaper to find out
how many horses were left on earth,
and numbly watched mosquitos swarm
over a pile of high-heeled shoes
while my colleagues hunted in the corners.

At least I was not in the line of work
that had me spending most of my day
avoiding God. My desk held painfully
complicated sufaces filled with shadow cassettes,
black bear theory and drinking water.

There was the sadness in a name like Jesse Winchester
and the wind howling
on the answering machine when I returned home
from daydreaming in a margarita shop.

All the blessings and counter-blessings
that move my mind like FM waves
from a butter churn, and granted me the sight
of parallel collies standing on a hilltop

And the rain falling on the United States
while it wonders
'What is the United States?'

I used to sing a song that went
'No more Springs, no more Summers, no more Falls'
I believed I was nearing the morning when
nettles would pour from the shower head.
When I would be ripped out of the world for re-casting
of blues and plastic.

I believed that I would finally break
where I had been bent,
that I would lose the game inside the game
But that has not happened,
And now I don't expect it ever will.

(David Berman)

Ally C (Ally C), Friday, 16 April 2004 16:05 (twenty years ago) link

I have only ever heard this pome and never seen it, so some of the words are almost certainly wrong and I have made up the formatting.

But I love it so.

Ally C (Ally C), Friday, 16 April 2004 16:06 (twenty years ago) link

the full text, for interested parties, of the keith chegwin as fléance poem is hidden somewhere on ile.

cozen (Cozen), Friday, 16 April 2004 16:39 (twenty years ago) link

Poetry is only for wimps and wankers. Fortunately everybody is somtimes. Now, what are the differences between American and European poetry today?
Oops I am in the wrong thread. Ok. Let´s have a poem:

The Pope's Penis

It hangs deep in his robes, a delicate
clapper at the center of a bell.
It moves when he moves, a ghostly fish in a
halo of silver seaweed, the hair
swaying in the dark and the heat - and at night,
while his eyes sleep, it stands up
in praise of God.

----- Sharon Olds

Finally: “Asked what distinguished him, as a poet, from an ordinary man, Wallace Stevens replied, Inability to see much point to the life of an ordinary man.”

Ingolfur Gislason (kreator), Sunday, 18 April 2004 22:05 (twenty years ago) link

Okay, it's official. The Pope's Penis is now my favorite poem of all time.

scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 18 April 2004 22:10 (twenty years ago) link

Wallace Stevens wuz wrong.

Archel (Archel), Monday, 19 April 2004 08:23 (twenty years ago) link

I think he means "ordinary man" as unexamined life, fwiw.

bnw (bnw), Monday, 19 April 2004 19:43 (twenty years ago) link

bnw, will you post an extract of your own poesie some time? False modesty be damned.

Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Monday, 19 April 2004 20:04 (twenty years ago) link

Well you tell me: what's the point in being ordinary. Seem's a pretty low aim somehow. Everybody should try for more. Of course, on closer inspection, most people are a bit out of the ordinary. Go ahead, name one person which is totally ordinary. This post may have been beside the point though.

Ingolfur Gislason (kreator), Monday, 19 April 2004 20:28 (twenty years ago) link

Sumer is icumen in - loudly sing cuckoo!

aimurchie (aimurchie), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 01:34 (twenty years ago) link

yikes... now i will be editing something to post for the next 5 hours

bnw (bnw), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 02:06 (twenty years ago) link

okay, this one's a few years old, (so I am fairly safely detached from it.)

--
After An Argument Over Global Warming

You feign sleep and face the wall
because you believe in ice shelves
cleaving under the weight of their water.

Your birthmark melts down in the dark.
The lack of pigment sapped into a lack of light.

We stood in the kitchen with the faucet running.
You at the sink washing the same plate over and over, me
propped up on the counter top. I spoke of the shoreline

creeping upward in inches over centuries.
The gradual spread of seashore
and drift of continents.

You saw the bayou sucked into the Gulf.
Desert droughts blooming in the countryside.
Monsoons washing out the soil.

And when I said "Beauty is slow," you dropped the plate
like a shard of ice and bolted into the bedroom.
The faucet running.

bnw (bnw), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 03:08 (twenty years ago) link

okay, since I can't bear that my self-indulgence killed the thread...

...
Then one hot day when fields were rank
With cowdung in the grass the angry frogs
Invaded the flax-dam; I ducked through hedges
To a coarse croaking that I had not heard
Before. The air was thick with a bass chorus.
Right down the dam gross-bellied frogs were cocked
On sods; their loose necks pulsed like sails. Some hopped:
The slap and plop were obscene threats. Some sat
Poised like mud grenades, their blunt heads farting.
I sickened, turned, and ran. The great slime kings
Were gathered there for vengeance and I knew
That if I dipped my hand the spawn would clutch it.

Death of a Naturalist - Seamus Heaney
(i used this as a freaky trigger focus group response but i don't think it ever ran.)

bnw (bnw), Thursday, 22 April 2004 17:11 (twenty years ago) link

I think "After An Argument..." is gorgeous.

last stanza of "Lost in Translation" by James Merrill

Lost, is it, buried? One more missing piece?

But nothing's lost. Or else: all is translation
And every bit of us is lost in it
(Or found-I wander through the ruin of S
Now and then, wondering at the peacefulness)
And in that loss a self effacing tree,
Color of context, imperceptibly
Rustling with its angel, turns the waste
To shade and fiber, milk and memory.

aimurchie (aimurchie), Saturday, 24 April 2004 23:40 (twenty years ago) link

Sunday morning. My post the last post. I need some poetry, friends. If someone else doesn't post something immediately I will transcribe the entire Norton Anthology. Donald, post that poem I love, the one from the Dionis Coffin workshop.

aimurchie, Sunday, 25 April 2004 12:19 (twenty years ago) link

The wonderment of fundement

Early in spring the weather hasn't changed.
The concert-room is peppishness unhinged.

Tonight the lady pianist who plays
con fuoco hardly hears her own applause.

*

A Mr Macaroni stops his Ford
two streets away and lets the engine flood,

the radio just loud enough to hear,
one crate of pippin-apples, one of beer.

*

She makes her music, loosening her hands.
The moment holds. But if the evening ends,

[...]

Matthew Welton

cozen (Cozen), Sunday, 25 April 2004 12:34 (twenty years ago) link

Meanwhile, it is a beautiful day, and I just (successfully) used a hammer to open a window - and nothing broke! I think I spelled successfully wrong, but in the dictionary success is spelled success and is surrounded by succedaneum and succession.Please put an end to this ridiculous (ridgy - riding) minutia (minuteman - Minyades)and post something (somersault - somite). Else I will transcribe (transcontinental - transcrystalline) the entire dictionary (dicrotic - Dictynna).

aimurchie, Sunday, 25 April 2004 12:35 (twenty years ago) link

ROOM

For another bone in the stock,
mug of water in the soup,
more of the plate,
more fresh air baked into the cake:
for a better look at the bread
through the butter, at the knee
through the trouser leg;
for a longer washing line,
for the bar of grime
to be raised a little higher up the side of the shared brown bath;
for a wider photograph,
extra drawer –
another face,
but it’s full of yours.

Jacob Polley

cozen (Cozen), Sunday, 25 April 2004 12:36 (twenty years ago) link

In memory of Friday's weather, here in the Midwest:

i thank You God for most this amazing
day:for the leaping greenly spirits of trees
and a blue true dream of sky;and for everything
which is natural which is infinite which is yes

(i who have died am alive again today,
and this is the sun’s birthday;this is the birth
day of life and love and wings:and of the gay
great happening illimitably earth)

how should tasting touching hearing seeing
breathing any-lifted from the no
of all nothing-human merely being
doubt unimaginably You?

(now the ears of my ears awake and
now the eyes of my eyes are opened)

-E. E. Cummings

yesabibliophile (yesabibliophile), Sunday, 25 April 2004 12:37 (twenty years ago) link

Before You Cut Loose,

1                               put dogs on the list
2          of difficult things to lose. Those dogs ditched
3          on the North York Moors or the Sussex Downs
4          or hurled like bags of sand from rented cars
5          have followed their noses to market towns
6          and bounced like balls into their owners' arms.
7          I heard one story of a dog that swam
8          to the English coast from the Isle of Man,
9          and a dog that carried eggs and bacon
10        and a morning paper from the village
11        surfaced umpteen leagues and two years later,
12        bacon eaten but the eggs unbroken,
13        newsprint dry as tinder, to the letter.
14        A dog might wander the width of the map
15        to bury its head in its owner's lap,
16        crawl the last mile to dab a bleeding paw
17        against its own front door. To die at home,
18        a dog might walk its four legs to the bone.
19        You can take off the tag and the collar
20        but a dog wears one coat and one colour.
21        A dog got rid of---that's a dog for life.
22        No dog howls like a dog kicked out at night.
23        Try looking a dog like that in the eye.

Simon Armitage

cozen (Cozen), Sunday, 25 April 2004 12:39 (twenty years ago) link

Good Friday, Driving Westward

1          The rain. Rain that will not end.
2          The daily errands. Daily bread.
3          No letting up. No pause
4          as I steer blindly, circling
5          the great city. City of tears and blood.
6          I woke this morning to the ringing phone.
7          To the last days of the twentieth century.
8          Hello. Hello. But the line was dead.
9          The phone in my hand heavy.
10        My mind whirling. Numb. Taken

[...]

Elizabeth Spires

cozen (Cozen), Sunday, 25 April 2004 15:15 (twenty years ago) link

Cozen: odd, that title reminds me of one of Muldoon's very early ones.

the pomefox, Monday, 26 April 2004 14:28 (twenty years ago) link

First, anybody gives gold cushions or seems to do so
while doing something under the conditions of competition,
after which anybody boils delicate things,
being in flight,
doing something consciously,
& keeping up a process.

Next, anybody gets an orange from a hat, takes it, & keeps it;
then anybody goes under
while doing something under the conditions of competition
& ends by putting in languages other than English.

--Jackson Mac Low, "19th Dance - Going Under - 1 March 1964"

Casuistry (Chris P), Monday, 26 April 2004 17:45 (twenty years ago) link


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