Hello Mudduh Hello Fadduh: ILX Rolling Parenting Thread

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I remember my nephew aged 2 or less, I forget, singing us the mcdonald's jingle, argh.

teeny (teeny), Monday, 30 January 2006 18:28 (eighteen years ago) link

but otoh you just never know, my husband was parented in a way that I don't agree with--lots of tv, lots of bad food (his baby teeth rotted out as soon as they came in), etc etc, and he's fucking brilliant. Middle-class parent in overworry shockah.

teeny (teeny), Monday, 30 January 2006 18:30 (eighteen years ago) link

Kids just need to know the television is not always their friend. That it sometimes lies to them or tries to convince them to do stupid things - iow, just like some other people do. That's why there are stories of tricksters - from Coyote, to Odysseus, to Tom Sawyer and whitewashing the fence - to teach kids how gullible they should not be. Television-watching skills are just like other social skills that way.

Aimless (Aimless), Monday, 30 January 2006 18:37 (eighteen years ago) link

Well said, Aimless. And I just think it's one of the roles of a parent to protect from potential harm until they reach the age where you can explain that to them. That age varies from child to child. The mom and dad know when a kid's starting to understand abstract concepts.

And yes, we did watch ST:TNG. *grin* Which is probably the entire reason why the kiddo is a geek.

Hey Jude, Monday, 30 January 2006 19:54 (eighteen years ago) link

Kids also need to know that you are not their friend. You are their parent and it's a huge difference that lots of parents avoid discerning for one reason or another.

My wife was raised like your husband Teeny. And she's pretty brilliant as well. But I think in the long run you want to play the odds and assume that not everyone will be as lucky as our spouses are. Not to mention that sound eating habits have obvious rewards.

don weiner (don weiner), Monday, 30 January 2006 21:21 (eighteen years ago) link

You wait till Ava starts saying, "Calm down, Dad, it's only a commercial" when you're throwing a wobbler.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 08:21 (eighteen years ago) link

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/birdnestsoup/panda.jpg

Here's Bill, he's two. His favourite thing ever is Thomas the Tank Engine. Also loves drawing, squirrels, Postman Pat and walking like a robot.

NickB (NickB), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 11:12 (eighteen years ago) link

http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/3838/12040008pshop4x61lh.jpg

Almost 2, waiting for his little brother or sister to arrive (sometime this week), with his bunny, named "Money." Faves: balloons, "bidee-roes", and trains incl. Thomas.

Hunter (Hunter), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 16:30 (eighteen years ago) link

money bunny!

I am shocked at my new appetite for baby pictures.

teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 16:32 (eighteen years ago) link

Sarah's first time in this new sleeper/costume. She called the bunny ears "bummy hairs."

truck-patch pixel farmer (my crop froze in the field) (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 17:20 (eighteen years ago) link

So what's the consensus on breastfeeding versus bottle feeding? I'm going mental with the breastfeeding. As much as I like it and my breasts have adjusted (and actually quite like it), I can't deal with the post-breastfeeding. She burps, throws up and hiccups for at least an hour and sometimes even more. I don't know if I'm eating right or that her stomach just can't handle my milk. I feel guilty for not giving her proper milk, feel guilty for wanting to switch to bottle (pumped milk and/or formula), feel guilty for getting cranky about it all. Also, I do want to get back to work... I want the best solution for both. :-( Bah.

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Thursday, 2 February 2006 10:15 (eighteen years ago) link

Don't feel guilty.

Edith was only brestfed for about two days (two very hungry days) and she is a fine strapping lass. Swings and roundabouts, I'd say. I'm not very keen on sterilising, but that's all.

I think you can mix and match.

Did anyone watch that programme about breastfeeding last night? Corking stuff - like a series of Little Britain sketches.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Thursday, 2 February 2006 10:32 (eighteen years ago) link

Nathalie, I'll try and remember to ask my wife what she thinks about your brestfeeding woes cos she knows lots about this in her professional capacity.

NickB (NickB), Thursday, 2 February 2006 10:56 (eighteen years ago) link

(Err, just to clarify, she's a health visitor, not some bizarre lactating lady of the night)

NickB (NickB), Thursday, 2 February 2006 10:57 (eighteen years ago) link

I love this thread.

Most important thing Natalie (my wife tells me) - don't feel guilty - a few months down the line you'll be thinking "why did i let this get to me!?".

My parent profile - two children Louis, 8 and Mae, 4. Mae has just started school, which in my humble opinion is a little too early because I miss her! I stayed home and looked after the kids purely because financially it seemed the most sensible way, my wife has always earned a lot more than me. I do a few hours paid work a week now.

I don't know if I have much advice. You get so much advice from everyone that you wind up beating yourself up over whether you're doing the right thing. Having said that I find that If the kids are happy, you will be happy. And vice versa. And one way to stay happy is to get as much sleep as possible. This was one of the most difficult things for us, and it seems cruel going through the process of getting them to sleep through but I think it's worth it for everyone.

Anyway, here's a picture of Mae as an angel at her playgroup's xmas do.
http://static.flickr.com/34/72507088_9134fdc0f0.jpg

Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Thursday, 2 February 2006 10:59 (eighteen years ago) link

And this is Louis - taken by Mae...I've posted this elsewhere but it makes me laugh...so...(I'm at the back)
http://static.flickr.com/33/41264557_11e478739e.jpg?v=0

Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Thursday, 2 February 2006 11:02 (eighteen years ago) link

PJ Miller: Taped that programme for the missus, only tiny bit I caught was a woman breastfeeding her 8-year old. Which was just a little freakish. Oh, and a soundbite from some twattish bloke saying that public breastfeeding should be banned on account of 'paedofiddlia'.

NickB (NickB), Thursday, 2 February 2006 11:03 (eighteen years ago) link

I realize that I should stick to it - breastfeeding is the healthiest option - but I can't seem to get in *synch* with her and feel as though all her throwing up, hiccups and burps are my fault. We have looked into what could cause it. Maybe I am eating too much milk and yoghurt and she's a bit allergic to it? The problem is that if I bring it up with the childcare and midwives, they of course stress that I should keep breastfeeding. It's as if bottle feeding is child abuse. I also feel guilty about considering the bottle since I do want to get back to work and breastfeeding is hard: I'm in the shop and she cries, I can't really throw my tit in the back for the baby. ;-) I also know it's partially sleep deprivation and blasting headaches which make me so emotional at times.

In one word: ARGH.

But, hey, one look at Ophelia and I melt.

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Thursday, 2 February 2006 11:08 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh shit, yeah, do you mean that ITV program? I saw a bit... but I think it was morning telly... Some mommies do breastfeeding up until their kids are six and even later! My mum saw this on the subway in Tokyo: some woman gave her kid, a boy about seven, the breast in PLAIN VIEW! Sicko.

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Thursday, 2 February 2006 11:10 (eighteen years ago) link

Just a thought Natalie - are you sure your winding her properly? You'd be surprised just how much gas you can bring up sometimes.

NickB (NickB), Thursday, 2 February 2006 11:14 (eighteen years ago) link

(sorry - IOU 1 x 'h')

NickB (NickB), Thursday, 2 February 2006 11:15 (eighteen years ago) link

hmm, i think so, but i'll look into it.

no problem about the h. :-)

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Thursday, 2 February 2006 11:44 (eighteen years ago) link

I think it was Channel 4. "Paedofiddlia" man made me laugh more than anything on television has made me laugh for quite a while.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Thursday, 2 February 2006 11:45 (eighteen years ago) link

Also, I think the insistence on breastfeeding can certainly add to the anxiety if it isn't going perfectly. They're a bit over the top really.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Thursday, 2 February 2006 11:46 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah, they can get a bit evangelistic. If you do want to continue breastfeeding and get back to work, have you tried expressing milk and bottle-feeding that?

NickB (NickB), Thursday, 2 February 2006 12:08 (eighteen years ago) link

Yes, I have. I brought it up and the woman at Kind&Gezin (Child&Family) thought I was talking about formula feeding so she began shouting at the phone:"Oh no!" but then, when she realized I was talking about pumping, she said it could be done but wasn't keen on the idea. This is all good and well: but if you run a shop, it's difficult to send the employees somewhere else every few hours especially if one of'em is *hard of hearing*. I practically have to beg her to go away. *sigh*

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Thursday, 2 February 2006 12:53 (eighteen years ago) link

Maybe I am eating too much milk and yoghurt and she's a bit allergic to it?

Don't worry about this; milk proteins and lactose don't work this way, as you will digest them first. Other things can pass into your milk untouched because they are absorbed directly into your bloodstream - alcohol, the volatile oils from garlic and onions.

It can work well to express your milk and bottle feed, and to nurse the baby when possible - I did it for months. Freeze your milk as soon as possible to preserve the enzymes and warm it under warm, not hot, running water. It is important to nurse the baby as often as you can (I was able to once in the morning and two-three times in the evenings), otherwise your milk will eventually dwindle.

Even though I nursed my son, he was a projectile vomiter. It was just the way he was (apparently, I was too). He eventually grew out of it, though it was frustrating all the time it happened. As long as the baby is filling her diapers and gaining weight, she's doing fine, regardless of spit-ups and burps.

Jaq (Jaq), Thursday, 2 February 2006 13:49 (eighteen years ago) link

Argh, I wrote that in haste, it's over-simplified - but all proteins and complex sugars will be broken down by your digestive system into their component amino acids and simple sugars before your milk ducts re-assemble them into the proteins and sugars that make up your milk.

Jaq (Jaq), Thursday, 2 February 2006 14:20 (eighteen years ago) link

I'll be all about this thread by September.

Raymond Cummings (Raymond Cummings), Thursday, 2 February 2006 16:56 (eighteen years ago) link

Aw, congratulations!

NickB (NickB), Thursday, 2 February 2006 17:00 (eighteen years ago) link

How far along are you Raymond?

Miss Misery xox (MissMiseryTX), Thursday, 2 February 2006 17:13 (eighteen years ago) link

Woohoo! Congratulations! Post ultrasound pics and tell us all about morning sickness. :-)

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Thursday, 2 February 2006 17:25 (eighteen years ago) link

Natalie, my first son threw up after breastfeeding for the first 6-8 months of his life. As in, after 90% of his feedings, his burps would result in vomitus. My wife was paranoid with fear but repeated trips to the doctor allayed that somewhat. His favorite thing was to puke down my back. In other words, my experience was the same as Jaq's.

congrats, Raymond!

don weiner (don weiner), Thursday, 2 February 2006 17:27 (eighteen years ago) link

Nath remind me again how old Ophelia is? If you can give breastfeeding six weeks you may find that you start to sync up, and if it's still an enormous pain, the six weeks of mothers milk will have given her a bunch of benefits and you shouldn't feel guilty about switching to formula. Fussing with bottles and mixing formula is no treat either though, and decreasing your baby's demand on mothers milk this early will most likely mean that you'll gradually stop producing. Pumping is totally okay, you're probably not going to have nipple confusion at this point and in fact it may be a good idea to start feeding her expressed milk from a bottle so that she gets used to having it that way and doesn't completely refuse a bottle later.

Make sure you're drinking enough water--that could be the source of your headaches. And if you think it could be dairy in your diet causing trouble, cut it out for a couple of weeks and see what happens. I have actually read that milk is the most common allergen, so my information conflicts with yours, Jaq. Here's an article:
http://lalecheleague.org/NB/NBJulAug98p100.html

teeny (teeny), Thursday, 2 February 2006 17:40 (eighteen years ago) link

She's only about 14 days old. I realize I'm overreacting - sleep deprivation is ass - but I do want what's best for my baby (and also, for myself). I only think about formula at night when I want to tear my hair out cause I think I'm being a lousy mother. ;-) As you said breast milk is the best option so I should stick with it. I'll probably go buy a pump: in a month or so, the shop will be too busy to do breastfeeding. :-(

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Thursday, 2 February 2006 17:49 (eighteen years ago) link

I totally went through the same thing, don't feel bad. And come to think of it, Louis went through a week or so of heavy-duty vomiting around the same time, maybe they just need a little time to figure out the capacities of those little bellies. Are you back to work already?

teeny (teeny), Thursday, 2 February 2006 18:03 (eighteen years ago) link

No, not really. Well, I stay at home during the morning but in the afternoon I try to be in the shop. :-) How about you? Working already?

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Thursday, 2 February 2006 18:13 (eighteen years ago) link

Thanks for that Teeny - I just learned a lot more about protein metabolism. Here's a link to a 1993 study that confirms the transfer of beta-lactoglobulin (the suspected culprit in milk allergies) from cow's milk to human blood serum. And an incredible amount of detail on how human lactation works.

Jaq (Jaq), Thursday, 2 February 2006 18:27 (eighteen years ago) link

mammary.nih.gov!!!

wow, I can't believe you're even doing half-days so soon! I'm working a little next week and even that's tough. Child care is a pain to arrange when you work weird hours.

teeny (teeny), Thursday, 2 February 2006 18:49 (eighteen years ago) link

Well, it's not really work-work: the shop's pretty quiet at the moment so it's not as if I'm working my ass off. I prefer to be in the shop around people. :-)

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Thursday, 2 February 2006 19:05 (eighteen years ago) link

Mrs. Hunter pumped and froze until she could stand it no more after, erm maybe 7+ months. She had to do this amidst her workday. The kid was, shall we say, a very enthusiastic consumer.

He converted to cow milk around a year. Despite my concern that "milk is for cows," and general lack of enthusiasm for him eating much dairy, he is apparently a two-legged, blue-eyed holstein, he loooooves milk, cottage cheese, mozzarella and yogurt. For a while, he didn't want to eat anything without yogurt mixed with it, or mozzarella melted onto it.

What do you guys do when a toddler will only eat a VERY limited number of foods, and snubs the rest despite your served menu?

Hunter (Hunter), Thursday, 2 February 2006 19:07 (eighteen years ago) link

All of your kids are adorable. I have a question. Learning seems so accelerated these days--is there a point where it levels out or are we going to be dealing with a glut of geniuses in the future? I had a parent in my "Time for Twos" storytime ask if maybe her child would be better served in the 3-5 Storytime. I told her by all means to check it out and see which one was better for her. My next door neighbours, grades 3 and 1, are like geniuses: accomplished artists, great readers and writers. It seems that in my generation, early learning was much less structured. My sister and I did not start reading and painting at extremely young ages and we do not seem to be the worse for it. Thoughts? Do some kids get really bored around 3/4/5 th grade because they have already learned the elementary canon?

Mary (Mary), Thursday, 2 February 2006 19:11 (eighteen years ago) link

i think all kids learn differently. there's definitely more pressure now, and more people trying to sell you things to make your kids geniuses, but isn't it funny how that corresponds to american students doing worse and worse in comparison to kids in other countries? i think a lot of it is overblown. i'm sure we'll go through the normal anxieties when we get to those points -- why isn't he reading yet? why is he having trouble with math? what if he has a learning disability? etc. -- but i'm determined not to make too big a deal out of any of it. i'm less concerned with how he'll do in any given class or subject than preparing him as well as possible to have an interesting, happy (and hopefully not poverty-stricken) life.

re: the breastfeeding and vomiting -- i think that's another one of those "no universal answer" issues. our kid actually had more spit-ups on formula than breastmilk, which is one reason we were sorry when the breastfeeding tapered off. and hiccups and gas and whatnot just come with the territory. our experience was that those things got a lot better after 6 months. now we're down to just the very occasional vomit, usually when we give him too much or if he has some food he's never had before. but also, don't be intimidated by the breastfeeding purists. what bugs me most is when people act like any one way of doing things (breastfeeding/formula, sleeping in the bed/out of the bed, tv/no tv) is the only way to do it. everyone's gonna have opinions, i try to pay attention to them but i also try to pay most attention to what seems to work for him and us.

in other news...Z is right on the verge of actual walking! every day he can go a little farther before he plops down, and his balance is getting better and better. i suppose within a few weeks it'll mostly supplant the crawling. which is a little too bad, because he's really cute when he crawls. but he's pretty hilarious to watch walking too. one more milestone about to fall...

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Thursday, 2 February 2006 19:45 (eighteen years ago) link

more people trying to sell you things to make your kids geniuses

Somebody please explain this to me.

Redd Harvest (Ken L), Thursday, 2 February 2006 19:50 (eighteen years ago) link

Speaking of poverty, my neighbor's grandma called my mom the other day to read her a letter she wrote to get her into the GT program at her elementary school. I overhead my mom saying something like, 'yes, and education is so important now for whatever job she will get." And I was thinking, I have tons of education and I've always done really well in school and it certainly hasn't helped to launch me onto some career fast-track. And I was in that same GT program and all I can remember doing in it is paining a sea scape one day after school. Though it did serve to track me into the GT program in middle school/high school which made sure my classes would not be tainted with any non GT members. The criteria for getting in seems really strange too--if you want your child in, write a letter. What about the kids whose parents aren't really present enough to write letters. I remember I ended up asking my mom to write a letter for me because some of my friends were in it.

Also, there was a article in the Wash Post today about some low-performing elementary school in Alexandria that is pulling itself up by its bootstraps and doing better and better on the VA Standards of Learning (SOL) tests so that it will no longer be labeled a low performing school and wealthy parents will no longer pull their kids out of it in search of better schools. There was a picture of a first grader taking a reading test and he was looking at the sheet of paper with long words printing in a small font. Shouldn't these kids be reading picture books, still? I have these teaching pangs now and again but then I read an article like this and I think, no way I good teach in that kind of school system.

Mary (Mary), Thursday, 2 February 2006 19:56 (eighteen years ago) link

Nathalie: I spoke to my wife about your probs. This may or may not apply to you, but this it what she told me. You might know this all already, but here goes:

Apparently there's two basic components of breastmilk. At any one feed, when your baby starts off, she mainly gets the watery foremilk, which is high in antibodies and boosts the baby's immune system, but is actually a little hard for them to digest. After a while of feeding, the hindmilk starts coming through, which is much richer and high in fat and what your baby needs to put on weight, but it also helps to calm the baby's digestion.

If your baby is feeding frequently, say every hour or so, and you keep changing breasts, she will mainly be getting the foremilk, and this will cause colic (burping, discomfort, vomiting). What you need to try and do is space feeds more, but have the baby take in more at any one feed so she gets more of the soothing fatty hindmilk.

To do this, you'll need to keep herawake by rubbing her cheeks and gently squeezing her feet, things like that. Obviously, intake is limited by the size of the baby's stomach, so if they're too small to drink very much in one go, put them back on the same breast for the next feed instead of alternating (hope you're not too sore!), then switch the next time round.

Make sure you wind thoroughly afterwards and help the baby relax by holding her resting on her stomach, like on your forearm or thigh. And don't worry too much - I think everyone gets problems with this.

NickB (NickB), Friday, 3 February 2006 10:11 (eighteen years ago) link

I can't wait to breastfeed, although I'm scared that I'll struggle with it. I've got to use these babies for something after all!!
Here's a pic of my little boy last week...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/Pinxor/20wk1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/Pinxor/20wk5.jpg

Panther Pink (Pinkpanther), Friday, 3 February 2006 10:16 (eighteen years ago) link

Extraordinary Breastfeeding attracts 3.9m

Viewers, that is.

Tits, eh?

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Friday, 3 February 2006 10:18 (eighteen years ago) link

What do you guys do when a toddler will only eat a VERY limited number of foods, and snubs the rest despite your served menu?

Hunter, this is exactly the problem we're having. Bill's only really interested in eating cheese, cereal, yoghurt and birthday cake, and only the odd bit of fruit and veg. Seems to have got worse as he's got older too. Still too young to reason with and doesn't quite understand how bribery works either, grr dammit! He's also recently had that phase of tipping his plate upside down on top of his head (I must admit though, it's hard not to laugh when this happens)

It's immensely frustrating but we're *trying* to manage it (correctly or not) firstly by not making him special meals, cos it only compounds the frustration when he refuses food we've cooked him especially. So we just give him whatever we're having, and if he doesn't like it all that much, err well, that's just tough (God, I feel like a mean dad sometimes). We try not to offer him alternatives, and if he doesn't eat his food, he doesn't get any pudding. Unfortunately, I'm afraid we're pitifully weak when it comes to executing this plan, so we've had mixed results. However, we do manage to sneak healthy stuff into smoothies and soups by blending it up small (but don't tell him that!).

Would be very interested to hear how other folks handle this.

Pink Panther - your baby looks so blissed out there!

NickB (NickB), Friday, 3 February 2006 10:34 (eighteen years ago) link

I get Edith in a headlock and shovel it in.

She has not reached toddler status yet though.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Friday, 3 February 2006 10:36 (eighteen years ago) link


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