"She's an indoor kitty..."

**and we have a lot of foxes.**

A cat will see off a fox.

**we'd never be able to find them**

They will come back.

This might turn into a discussion of "monkey vs horse" level proportions, I'd be careful...

I've seen a couple of cat/fox confrontations walking home late at night, and it's true that the fox thought better of it and went off, although one time we shooed it away ourselves.

Anyway, as I said above, both cats have chlamydia and therefore weakened immune systems so there's the risk of disease as well. Plus the kitten's still got his bollocks (for the time being).

As for them coming back, how would we know unless we sit outside our building waiting for them? I'm on the 2nd floor!

Ah well. Thanks. Cat/Spike was tough as nails. I'm sure he died honorably. What's the feline equivalent of the final shootout of Scarface?

Also if you are going to let your cat climb into neighbor's yards that's completely inconsiderate and rude. Whether or not you seem to live under some delusion that cats always come back no matter what, I mean if your neighbors wanted eaten plants and dead bugs and rodents and cat shit in their yards, I'm sure they'd put it there themselves. If I lived next door to you lot, I'd buy a German Shepard in 3 minutes.

xpost Dan that is what I think. If you live in a non-rural area you need to keep the kitty on a leash and supervise it if it wants to go out. And not just because it's funny to see a cat on a leash.

My parents' cats:
Ginger Andrea Clorox: Outdoor cat, hit by a car
Pickles: Outdoor cat, hit by a car
Jane: Indoor cat, went out once and was mauled by neighborhood dogs, never went out again, died at 19 of old age.
Igneal: Outdoor cat, shot by a pellet gun, died at 12 of brain thingy from eating poison food.
Imor: Outdoor cat, shot by a pellet gun (the pellet it still in his right hind leg), hit by a car, 10 years old and still alive. Keep it real, boy!
Gandalf: Outdoor cat, hit by a car.
Arwyn: Indoor only, one year old, still alive.
Isabella: Indoor only, months old, still alive.

All three of ours are alive and healthy and cuddly and flea-free and don't go outside because we live in Chicago and there are signs all over the alley informing us that the city has set out rat poison, plus cars, plus evil people with pellet guns, plus mean little shit kids you do horrible things to sweet, trusting, lovey cats. I'm comfortable enough with our decision that I'm not even that upset that someone might think I'm a terrible person for it.

Sample DeKuyper does that crazy MEOW MEOW MEOW thing, too. I think she gets lost in the apartment. I just call her and she comes running and jumps on me for attention and that takes care of that.

For excercise. For fresh air. So it can shit out there. So it can climb trees. So it can, you know, do cat stuff.

**Also if you are going to let your cat climb into neighbor's yards that's completely inconsiderate and rude.**

What? Are you totally serious? You think I should sit the cat down and negotiate some ground rules? 'Hey, avoid Mrs. Smith's dahlias, but you should be OK as long as you dump the mice behind the shed'.

**I mean if your neighbors wanted eaten plants and dead bugs and rodents and cat shit in their yards**

Hey, Ally. THEY BURY THEIR SHIT! Well, yours doesn't, obviously, since it's cooped up in a yuppie apartment. But OUTDOOR CATS DO! And DEAD BUGS! Oh fuck no! DEAD BUGS IN THE YARD. CALL THE FUCKING EMERGENCY SERVICES! DEAD BUGS! DEAD BUGS! OH HELP!

And yes, you should "negotiate some rules". My sister manages to keep her cat from rummaging neighbors' yards, as does a former friend of mine. It's not that hard to watch your own pet. I mean don't get one if you find this an impossible task.

A) perfectly happy indoors
B) reticient to go outside

I mean who is anthromorphosizing the cat now?

I have stolen someone else's outdoor/indoor cat, when I was little!

You don't 'watch' them - you let them find their own territory, depending on what other cats live close etc. And guess what, if a big dog moves next door, THEY DON'T GO IN THERE ANY MORE!

Ally! Shame on you.

I mean who is anthromorphosizing the cat now? **

She wasn't perfectly happy indoors. She was lethargic and anxious, despite being 2 yrs old. It wasn't through boredom, as she there is usually someone at home for company. The vet could find nothing wrong. She seemed to want to go out, but would run in terrified after a few minutes. She would only go out if someone was in the garden, but clearly enjoyed running around, lying in the sun, exploring etc. I believe that it was the right thing to do to keep encouraging her out. Now she's happy to come and go all the time, looks in much better condition and is a different cat altogether.

**So, what we cat owners are *SUPPOSED* to do is let the cats out and just hope they don't get squashed by a car on the city streets. Is that correct O Grate 1? **

No, I didn't say that. My point is that if you live in a suitable place where the cat CAN go out, then it should go out. Ally's busy telling me that it's all wrong because of infringing on neighbours' privacy and leaving DEAD BUGS all over the place.

Personally I wouldn't keep a cat in a place where the traffic was so bad that it was in serious danger of being run over. Or where it couldn't go out for any reason.

Note that I stated that and that my 'fuck you' was conditional.

Why on Earth would anyone think you were making blanket generalizations based on that? It's madness, I tell you.

much like... humans.