I don't like Turkish music, or do I?

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That second one is very vocals-oriented, sorry. Not really my cup of tea. I generally like the ones that are heavy on electric bazouk/guitar.

_Rudipherous_, Saturday, 6 February 2010 06:58 (nine years ago) link

I could swear I posted at least once on ILM about Seyfettin Sucu, but I can find nothing. Maybe it was a different board or a newsgroup.

_Rudipherous_, Saturday, 6 February 2010 07:02 (nine years ago) link

Found it. I had two letters wrong in his first name.

_Rudipherous_, Saturday, 6 February 2010 07:04 (nine years ago) link

Clicked on the second Sucu video you posted and I like both the cool sounding "bazouk/guitar" and the vocals. Vocals like this, like other middle-eastern ones I've heard, and those on Youssou NDour's Egypt, also remind me of certain Jewish cantors i've heard in synagogues. The ethnological similarity is interesting. I also want to say the vocals feel "bluesy" but that is kind of as wrong as saying certain Malian things sound bluesy when it is likely more the other way around.

curmudgeon, Saturday, 6 February 2010 15:22 (nine years ago) link

There are definitely connecting threads there. I don't have the terminology for it, or the knowledge for it (for that matter), but I tend to think of middle eastern vocals on a spectrum. I have to admit that I tend to prefer what to me is the less harsh end of that spectrum. I would put a lot of the traditional Turkish vocal styles on one side, along with Syrian classical vocals, classical Iraqi vocals, and the vocal styles that seem to have been more popular much earlier in the 20th century in Egypt and maybe the Arabian peninsula, and maybe also cantorial vocals (though I'm not all that familiar with that sound); all of which are not so far removed at times from qawali to my ears. I tend to prefer the somewhat smoother sound that became popular in Egypt (with singers like Mohamed Abdel Wahab, Farid el Atrache, and later Abdel Halim Hafez) and the Gulf (a good contemporary example being Mohamed Abdo) at a later point. But I don't know enough to know whether that sound was there all along and the different sounds went in and out of style. I'm also not quite sure how to fit female singers into this. Oum Kalthoum, for instance, to me straddles the line between the two extremes I'm talking about here. (I'm attempting to do cross-cultural comparisons here without being an expert in even one of these national cultures. So I admit this may be mostly bullshit.)

Diamanda Galas always has intriguing things to say about the connections you were bringing up:

DIAMANDA: Interestingly enough, since 9/11, a lot of people coming from the Middle East are saying there would be no blues if there were no muezzin singing, and I said, “Well, you know, the reason I won’t argue with that is that music comes from Byzantium, from the mixture of all these cultures in the Middle East, including Anatolia, Turkey, Greece.” Where did the music of Islam come from? Well, it came from the Arabs, originally. Who did the Arabs get it from? The Arabs took it from the Greeks. They all changed music together in that melting pot of the Black Sea and Egypt and Turkey; in all those Arab countries, there was this exchange of music. So you have this bending of the tones, and you don’t just have a five-note scale—what is that? All these taqsims and the makams, all these scales.

And that is what I hear when I listen to most interesting blues music, which I feel is from Somalia and Ethiopia right now, because they have to get up there and be really good qaraami singers—the improvised music of that whole part of the world—and then they have to be pop singers and blues singers, too. So they get up and they start the solo with the qaraami, then they go into the song, and they go back into the qaraami. The qaraami is sung by church singers also. But these are real singers—I hear it and I think about where the blues is, what the Americans have done to it since then, which is just: repeat.

ARTHUR: Though they seem to specialize in it, that overly reverent regard for musical genres’ classic forms—stylizing them till they petrify hard enough to put them up on museum shelves—is not an exclusively American problem.

DIAMANDA: But when people try to get into this ethnic purity thing, like with Wynton Marsalis or Stanley Crouch, it’s the same thing that people do when they think about Armenian music—“Well, this scale or sound here is probably Turkish.” And I say, “How do you know if it’s Turkish or not?”

ARTHUR: A lot of musical idioms and techniques do get called Turkish; Western music critics use “Turkish music” as a big umbrella term.

DIAMANDA: That’s what Turkish imperialism is. They are a very rich country—in between what they get from America and what they get from Israel, they do real good. They can afford to have plundered the Assyrians, the Kurdish, the Greeks, the Armenians and many Arabic cultures and call it Turkish. They have borrowed from everyone, and other cultures as well have taken from them. But there is no such thing as a united Turkish music. That is just a bunch of shit.

This whole thing about insults to Turkish people, in Turkey they put people in jail for it. If you say you’re Assyrian, that means you’re insulting Turkish people; if you speak Greek, that’s an insult to Turkishness. And still, those two cultures melted into music that is now called Turkish music. Anatolia was a huge area that was inhabited by many cultures, and now they call it Turkey. And they say it’s “The Land of the Turks”—only because they killed everybody else off that lived there before.

ARTHUR: Of course, modern Greek musicians frequently refuse to sing certain songs because they think the song’s roots are in Islam. But in reality, they don’t know where that song came from.

DIAMANDA: There are a lot of people who refuse to perform certain music because they think they’re performing music by the enemy tribe. And they’re not. It’s part of their own music. The Turks employed Greeks, Armenians, Assyrians and Jews to compose music for the sultans. Then they called it “Turkish music.”

http://www.arthurmag.com/2009/01/25/vengeance-is-hers-a-conversation-with-diamanda-galas-by-john-payne-from-arthur-no-28march-2008/

_Rudipherous_, Sunday, 7 February 2010 01:55 (nine years ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJbgnU_d4ZA

lol @ 'folc'

Snop Snitchin, Sunday, 7 February 2010 02:30 (nine years ago) link

x-post--interesting

curmudgeon, Sunday, 7 February 2010 02:35 (nine years ago) link

Incidentally, curmudgeon, do you ever check out the Greek music thread? I think you would like some of what I have been posting to that.

_Rudipherous_, Sunday, 7 February 2010 03:06 (nine years ago) link

Once in awhile but not in ages.

curmudgeon, Monday, 8 February 2010 04:21 (nine years ago) link

A lot of that Sakir Oner Gunhan album linked to upthread is good, although I still prefer the instrumental aspect over the vocal aspect. (Not that he isn't a strong vocalist--he is! But Turkish vocals tend to put me off a little. Maybe it's even Turkish itself.)

_Rudipherous_, Saturday, 13 February 2010 01:07 (nine years ago) link

And I must have read about Turkish minimal techno in some comments Masonic Boom made elsewhere.

Onur Özer is the bloke I was talking about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ts2tIeUgBfY

I never did get to go to Istanbul last year. :-(

Masonic Boom, Friday, 19 February 2010 11:53 (nine years ago) link

Thanks. I like the colors there, but the rhythms are too close to regular "dance music" type stuff for me, on first listen anyway.

_Rudipherous_, Friday, 19 February 2010 13:38 (nine years ago) link

Well, it is Minimal Techno after all! Just done by a Turkish person. I couldn't find his better e.p. on YouTube, unfortunately (Red Cabaret) but it is still Techno more than Turkish.

For the Middle Eastern music with dance elements (rather than techno with Turkish elements) I still prefer Harem and Natasha Atlas and stuff like that. I definitely mentioned Harem above, and Atlas I think has her own thread elsewhere.

Of the Finders Keepers stuff, it's funny, I loved the Ersen stuff but wasn't that keen on Mustafa Ozkent. I think the latter really didn't live up to the promise of its cover.

Masonic Boom, Friday, 19 February 2010 13:44 (nine years ago) link

p.s. I think half of my love of Turkish music is that I love the sound and feel of the language so much.

Masonic Boom, Friday, 19 February 2010 13:45 (nine years ago) link

Well, it is Minimal Techno after all!

Well, yeah, I was just hoping that somehow the Turkish side of it would blunt the techno side a little, and since getting into Black Noise I now realize that minimal techno can work for me sometimes, unless that album is just a complete anomaly. (I think one reason Black Noise works for me is that there are a lot of other rhythmic things going on besides the sort of foundational techno rhythms.)

_Rudipherous_, Saturday, 20 February 2010 00:57 (nine years ago) link

one year passes...

This rocks the funky beats:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtlKfFIm5es

I think I came across this singer while I was searching for Samira Toufic youtubes, which makes sense because she seems like a Turkish equivalent. I haven't listened to enough Turkish music to feel sure about where she falls in terms of relative virtuosity though. But anyway, a good discovery.

_Rudipherous_, Sunday, 20 February 2011 02:08 (eight years ago) link

two years pass...

Liking this Turkish soundtrack (I think it's a soundtrack but now I don't see whatever I saw that gave me that idea) more than I'd expect:

http://open.spotify.com/album/4ntAXmmOWxsxnqgQG0GTAb

European chamber music, some Turkish instruments, low-key singing, dashes of electronics.

_Rudipherous_, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 02:13 (six years ago) link

Sorry, for the Spotifyless, that is Taner Okyol's album Birds of Passage.

_Rudipherous_, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 02:15 (six years ago) link

Akyol not Okyol. Let's not get Omme Kalsomme about it.

_Rudipherous_, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 02:16 (six years ago) link

I might actually like Traveller/Yolcu more, but I've been in the music for instrumental music lately, which might explain it. The bazouk (I guess it's bazouk, or something very close) is in the spotlight on this one.

_Rudipherous_, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 04:00 (six years ago) link

Rhythm track getting a bit too Bill Laswell now, unfortunately.

_Rudipherous_, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 04:01 (six years ago) link

Lame thread title, imo.

_Rudipherous_, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 12:39 (six years ago) link

every time you update this thread i think about posting a list of the turkish albums + rereleases i've been digging this year but i think i've mentioned them all on the world thread already.

Mordy , Wednesday, 12 June 2013 15:31 (six years ago) link

Rachel Devitt did a playlist on Rhapsody last week; even if you can't listen to it, you can see what she included:

http://www.rhapsody.com/blog/post/music-of-turkey

http://www.rhapsody.com/playlist/pp.112134080

xhuxk, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 16:44 (six years ago) link

One of my all-time favourite songs, Turkish or otherwise: Sezen Aksu's "Kavaklar".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdngjh5cy5E

breastcrawl, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 20:27 (six years ago) link

https://soundcloud.com/onearthrecords/mercandede_dunya_mechul

cool album cover too. on spotify:
http://open.spotify.com/album/4IexpQ20ZvP9Rn6e2oIIEV

Mordy , Sunday, 16 June 2013 22:49 (six years ago) link

one year passes...

It's the off-brand Türkvizyon Song Contest tonight. Various Turkic-language-speaking countries / regions, from Gagauzia to Kabardino-Balkaria, will be fighting it out.

http://i.imgur.com/2W23vdZ.jpg

Not sure if it's being streamed internationally but might be fun.

Wristy Hurlington (ShariVari), Wednesday, 19 November 2014 15:51 (four years ago) link

bosnia

disconnected externalized and unrecognizable signifying structure (nakhchivan), Wednesday, 19 November 2014 16:16 (four years ago) link

seven months pass...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUkftSQkWhQ

I probably listen to less Turkish pop than i should given that the only places remotely near to me that sell CDs stock nothing else, but i've been playing this a lot.

who epitomises beta better than (ShariVari), Saturday, 4 July 2015 20:38 (four years ago) link

Speaking of "Bangir"s, this one is a real jam:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGOfDctPKRo

Ayse Hatun Önal ft. Onurr - Güm Güm

breastcrawl, Monday, 6 July 2015 00:41 (four years ago) link

two years pass...

I'm enjoying that book Anadolu Psych by Daniel Spicer. The expansion on a Wire primer he wrote a few years ago. Apparently he familiarised himself with the music to write the article and has immersed himself i it much farther to write this.
Could do with something similar on African psych stuff.
POssibly some other areas music of similar era too.

Stevolende, Tuesday, 12 June 2018 11:18 (one year ago) link

Does Sami Baha's Turkish trap music that's fresh out on Planet µ count? I'm digging that a lot.

octobeard, Tuesday, 12 June 2018 20:44 (one year ago) link

two months pass...

Şome Türkpop traçks İ’ve been diğğing thıs year:

Hande Yener • Beni Sev: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqU29nHc-U0

Edis ft. Emina • Güzelliğine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB7kxLltNyk

İdo Tatlıses • Sen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rv3mZNzZ6PI

Aleyna Tilki ft. Emrah Karaduman • Yalnız Çiçek: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi80-tmEduI

breastcrawl, Monday, 13 August 2018 21:01 (one year ago) link

hypnotic oriental psychedelia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d7DR_fKn8c

Ich bin kein Berliner (alex in mainhattan), Tuesday, 14 August 2018 09:44 (one year ago) link

Could do with somebody picking up a few more Anadolu Psych titles for reissue. Seems like a few of the ones reissued a few years back have gone OOP again.
BUt I picked up a bunch of stuff in the wake of reading that Daniel Spicer book. Also find loads of it's up on Spotify.

Interesting to see that Stewart Lee's making a deal about picking up Turkish funk in his latest show. THough I wouldn't think that Bunalim were too metal. Great lp that.

Stevolende, Tuesday, 14 August 2018 10:24 (one year ago) link

eight months pass...

I need to find out more about the recordings on here, specifically recording dates (as I don't think all are from 1925)

https://www.discogs.com/Various-Istanbul-1925/release/5515152

Can anyone think of anyone I can at least ask? Have tried to contact the record company, but have had no reply.

mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Thursday, 9 May 2019 19:50 (four months ago) link

It’s quite possible you know all this already, however, on the outside chance that you don’t:

Going by Discogs, it looks like the Istanbul-based Kalan Müzik label obtained a license to release this album in Turkey the next year (1995).

Over the past 25+ years, this label has acquired quite a reputation for curating and releasing all kinds of early and mid-20th century music from Turkey. The cd’s of theirs that I have (late 90s/early 00s releases) all came with quite lavish hardcover booklets, although unfortunately the information provided on recording and release dates is scattershot at best.

Still, I’d say it’s definitely worth a shot getting in touch with them. As it says on their website:
“Kalan Music has, with the assistance of expert musicologists, compiled and issued albums of unusual and ethnically varied works that are considered important to Turkish music history. As well as being appreciated by classical Turkish music lovers, academics have found these records invaluable for use as sources in international studies of ethnomusicology.”
https://en.kalan.com/about-kalan-music/

breastcrawl, Friday, 10 May 2019 22:22 (four months ago) link

Furthermore, many of the tracks on that Istanbul 1925 album can also be found on other compilations (in some cases with slightly differing spellings/transliterations for artist names and/or song titles), giving you perhaps another inroad.

These two for example are both on FM Records, a Greek label:

Music of the Balkans, Vol. 2: Bulgaria, Turkey 1930-1945: Spotify link

Balkan Medicine: The Early Recordings: Spotify link

breastcrawl, Friday, 10 May 2019 22:27 (four months ago) link

Thanks breastcrawl, sorry I missed your reply earlier - that's really helpful.

mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Monday, 13 May 2019 11:56 (four months ago) link


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