"The Village Green Preservation Society" vs. "Arthur, or the Decline and Fall of the British Empire"

Despite significant differences in their voices, the sound of their vocals do have a neat way of flowing into each other and intertwining (they never really successfully harmonize, so I don't know what else to call it) in a way that makes it hard to actually tell their voices apart. I'm also reminded of how Greil Marcus had an interesting reading of "I'm Not Like Everybody Else" in Mystery Train based entirely around the mistaken assumption that Ray was singing the lead vocals.

Does anyone know if "Nobody's Fool" by Cold Turkey (on Pye) is the Kinks, really, or not?

I've been listening to the 2cd deluxe reissue of Arthur from 2019. "Big Sky" was one of the last tracks completed for VGPS, and I think of it as the first example of Ray's message songs (as opposed to satires or character portraits). This sort of underlined philosophical heaviness is all over Arthur and starts to drag the band down just a little. "Princess Marina" and "Young and Innocent Days" are also the beginning of the Kinks recording songs that don't get any further than their concepts, filling in the details with boilerplate lyrics and melodies.
On the other hand, there is just so much admirable ambition and will in the group getting out of the introspective Village Green and trying to let the world know We Have Something Important to Say. Mick Avory's drums in "Shangri-La" tell the whole story of the song on their own.

"Young and Innocent Days" is great, it's the slighly clunky rock songs on "Arthur" that drag it down a bit.

how ironic or satirical am i supposed to hear this stuff as? it’s not quite john major but it’s not the total opposite of that either

realising how so much of what i find troubling about britpop/britrock ultimately stems from this band. to be fair they have better tunes, often with more complex/ambiguous/ambivalent sentiments, than later imitators tend to manage

Some of it's definitely ironic - "Victoria" for instance - but he definitely did have old school Tory tendencies, though he would deny it. Doesn't really bother me, to be honest

It gets worse in the 70s though.

Nothing drags down Arthur. Nothing.

PBKR, do you feel that any of the negative tendencies I see in Arthur appeared in later Kinks records? Lola, or Preservation?

yeah I feel like it's unfair to judge Arthur by is its perceived contributions to what came later

plus they still had two more great albums left

arthur is pretty much perfect to me

It's also a little unlikely as a "rock opera"; unlike Tommy, where all the lyrics are dialogue, a stage version of Arthur would have at least 50% of its running time taken up by a narrator telling Arthur/the audience the meaning of what we're seeing. It's hard for me to see how these songs would have integrated into a TV show, which is not a mark against it as a narrative album.

Arthur is miraculous and its lyrical sentiments were for the time surely extremely caustic and seditious

(xp) I doubt, in 1969, UK TV audiences would have needed too much exposition, I suspect most have them would have got the gist of it pretty quickly.

PBKR, do you feel that any of the negative tendencies I see in Arthur appeared in later Kinks records? Lola, or Preservation?

― Halfway there but for you, Sunday, April 4, 2021 11:57 AM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

yeah I feel like it's unfair to judge Arthur by is its perceived contributions to what came later

plus they still had two more great albums left

arthur is pretty much perfect to me

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, April 4, 2021 12:13 PM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Tom D, I don't mean that people wouldn't have understood the simple plot, just what visuals would one pick to accompany these songs where Ray as the voice of authority explains the (in)significance of Arthur's life? Like, was "Shangri-La" going to feature footage of Arthur polishing his car, sitting by the fire, paying his gas bill etc while Ray sings the song offscreen?
On the other hand, songs like "Victoria", "Brainwashed" and "Nothing to Say" are actually sung by characters in the story to other characters and would thus be easier to visualize.

It's funny that in the last Kinks thread I revived, people were fantasizing about murdering Ray Davies in his cradle. By contrast, it's nice that the posters in this thread like the record so much.

I think it was written as a play with music.

Not a Tommy-style rock opera.

I think that’s how all the ‘70s “concept”/“theatrical” Kinks records were approached, too. They weren’t going for a self-contained listening experience like Quadrophenia; these were soundtrack and/or cast albums.

A Soap Opera supposedly worked far better on stage than on record, which makes sense:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8laVs0aMWw

"Arthur" was collaboration with Julian Mitchell though so there would have been dialogue written for it.

XP One of the old Alternative Theatre companies in Houston staged a production of Soap Opera years ago. This was before my serious theatre-going days, but I've heard it was great.* I believe they filmed a night, but can't find any video.

*Years later, their successive company did the same for Frank Black's Bluefinger, which I did catch and was great...a pre-fame Lizzo was in the chorus.

Apparently the 4 CD Arthur box contains an interview with Mitchell about his script, but I don't have that version. I'm still puzzling over this: the only way I can imagine the songs integrated into a TV show would have been to alternate between dramatic scenes and musical performances by the Kinks. Unlike Preservation, Soap Opera, and Schoolboys in Disgrace, I'm sure there was no theatrical performance of Arthur by the Kinks at the time.
Incidentally, I forgot above that there is at least one song on Tommy sung by a narrator, "Sally Simpson".

has the script for the arthur film survived, i wonder? it’s a little surprising to me that no one’s ever expressed interest in making it.

i used to think that the long jam-y ending to “australia” was the only real serious flaw on the album, but i’ve gotten used to it over the years and more or less enjoy it all now.

*Years later, their successive company did the same for Frank Black's Bluefinger, which I did catch and was great...a pre-fame Lizzo was in the chorus

now that is a fun fact

has the script for the arthur film survived, i wonder? it’s a little surprising to me that no one’s ever expressed interest in making it.

I did wonder about that, but it's probably too tied to the time it was written - who knows who Princess Marina was anymore, for a start!

lyrically i always had a bit of trouble following Ray from the openhearted love of ordinary life on Village Green to the "pity these mindless drones" darkness that creeps in w/Arthur.

I love the (I think genuine) compassion in the title track of "Arthur;" it taps into all the same feelings I have about The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp.

thats a really interesting comparison, love blimp & have never thought about the two before.

the pair of "shangri la" and "arthur" have always come off kind of problematic and patronizing to me bc i've never really felt like ray has respect for the person he's singing about in "shangri la". theres a touch of sarcasm there which feels a bit too cutting & mean. the world may have passed him by, but ray seems to be laying at least some of the blame at arthur's feet in "shangri la".

maybe the difference for me is that Blimp is always presented with sympathy even when hes wrong, and he eventually comes to his cathartic realization on his own. whereas in "arthur" the catharsis seems to be on the side of ray/the narrator - arthur doesnt really change but all of a sudden ray feels sympathy with him for being bamboozled by a cruel world. but "we love you and want to help you" sort of takes away arthurs agency in the situation: 'we forgive you for believing in the wrong things'. it dulls the emotional payoff for me - it sounds like ray is forgiving arthur for a crime he didnt commit.

I don't think I've ever really thought of Arthur as an actual person. Maybe I'm letting the subtitle do too much work?

IOW: I wouldn't reduce it to a pat "Arthur = British Empire," but there's enough of that present that I don't worry much about Davies being unsympathetic

yeah like col blimp ive always imagined arthur as a stock character meant to stand in for a certain sociopolitical ideology, but a character in the 'story' of the album nonetheless.

thinking about it more, maybe it works better for me to think of it as instructive via the narrator's POV. Like Col Blimp the film is instructive in the sense of presenting a lesson in overcoming bad & stuck thinking, showing how you too can change with the times like Blimp. Whereas even though Arthur the character doesnt seem to really change in the 'story', maybe the album is intended as instructive in the sense of "heres how you the listener can learn to love & empathize with this type of sad person who will never change, instead of looking down on them." Maybe Ray is saying dont be such a dick to your parents because capitalism fucked them over too.

ty for joining me on this journey where i publicly figure out the obvious messages of this 50y/o rock album for teenagers, pls follow me to my substack for more great content

If my surmise is correct and the TV play originally featured dramatic scenes interspersed with the Kinks playing, that could explain why the lyrics alone could seem condescending. It would be different if we saw and heard the character and his interactions with others, with the songs as a Greek chorus.
From the songs and liner notes, Arthur never seemed to me to be an Archie Bunker type, more a confused person who hadn't figured himself out until the late-life epiphanies indicated on the record.

this album is as relevant to British society now as it has ever been imo

Ray Davies' own background is pretty different from the person he's singing about in "Shangri La", poorer and more precarious, so I suspect there is some sarcasm (and chippinss) there.

Or even chippiness.

Nowadays, Arthur probably couldn't afford a house, and he'd be working as a 70 year-old delivery driver.